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I was a fan of full-length sizing for most of 20 years. Then I got my first Lee Collet Die, and my groups started to improve. Now, I'm at a crossroads.

Setup:
Last year, I did up 150 rounds of 30-06, 50 rounds each for myself and my 2 sons. I used 1-fired Federal brass,150 grain Rem PSPCL, Remington 9 1/2 primers and H4895. The loads are pretty much the same loads that I've been doing for my sons since they were yutes. I decided to switch to 150 grain myself after shooting 165 grainers for 20 years-- I received a free lifetime supply from Hornady a while back, and decided this was a good way to use them up. All 150 rounds were loaded well under the MAX load. I annealed and did a full-length resize on all the brass before initial loading.

Moose, #2 son, has gone through 25 rounds, and I'm going to reload these empties for him. I've used neck sizing now for a few years on several chamberings. I've seen an overall improvement in groups and a distinct improvement in runout.

Question:
Should I use the Lee Collet Die to size these rounds? Why or why not?

My answer: I figure I can use the Collet Die for maybe 4-5 loads before I need to do a full-length size-- probably about the time I give them another annealing. However, this is the first time I've gone down this road.


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They'll be fine if they go back into the rifle in which they were fired. Since you're loading well under max they shouldn't be ironed into the chamber enough for stiff bolt operation.


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Make sure you run all the empty neck sized cases through the rifle before loading, cause s hit will happen.
Did all that when shooting HP. Never found the improvements you mentioned.

Good Luck.

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Originally Posted by CGPAUL
Make sure you run all the empty neck sized cases through the rifle before loading, cause s hit will happen.
Did all that when shooting HP. Never found the improvements you mentioned.

Good Luck.

That sounds like a waste of time. The reason I PFL size everything.. Accuracy/precision has never been an issue.. Keep schidt simple and thank me later..


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In my experience, in particular with 30-06 cases, if they are kept annealed and just collet-sized, there hasn't been a need to bump shoulders back, and have never experienced problems with case stretch to the point that the bolt operation was hindered. Some of my brass has been fired a couple dozen times and annealed at least 6 times.

In general, because I prefer to just collet-size, if a round doesn't chamber easily, I know it's time to anneal.

But that's just how I do it. I avoid Federal rifle brass, except the military stuff, unless I'm loading cast bullets. Soft case heads and loose primer pockets directed me elsewhere.


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As long as #2 son's brass will chamber and you aren't going to be swapping loads/rifles you should be fine. I have become a big fan of LCDs mostly because it eliminates the need for case lube and the less you work your brass, the longer it will last.


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the better bench rest shooters now all full length resize . myself i now always full length resize these good bench rest shooters have proved it in some videos i have watched . years ago i thought too neck sizing was the way to go but it is not.


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…. Umm…. Yes they full length size but using custom dies based off their chamber spec.

I make my own sizing dies for my BR rifle - but I make custom NECK Dies so i can control the neck size I’m using.

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I've had issues getting the collect tight enough but once fixed no issues.

For years I partial full-lengthed, no issues.

Loaded hot 308s for years NS die only. (Reasons)
Took quite a few loadings until the shoulder got tight, bumped it back and
rolled on.


All loading for a particular gun.


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Originally Posted by Spotshooter
…. Umm…. Yes they full length size but using custom dies based off their chamber spec.

I make my own sizing dies for my BR rifle - but I make custom NECK Dies so i can control the neck size I’m using.


i seen one benchrest shooter just use full length Redding die and a Redding seater and shoot the best groups of the weekend for 100 yards and 200 yards with his 6PPC at the State championship shoot and took most of the trophies that weekend too.


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Eric Cortina has a video on just this topic. Worth a watch.


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Originally Posted by pete53
the better bench rest shooters now all full length resize . myself i now always full length resize these good bench rest shooters have proved it in some videos i have watched . years ago i thought too neck sizing was the way to go but it is not.

I don't give a flying crap what bench rest shooters do. THe LCD's make superbly accurate hunting ammo with minimal runout. I bump shoulders every 3-4 loadings, and Blacktailer pointed out the reasons I've been using them for years.


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I only neck size, and don't ever FL size rifle brass any more. If you use the Lee Collet die and segregate brass according to the rifle it is fired in there should be no need. Brass needing to be FL sized to "bump the shoulder back" indicates an issue with the way you are sizing - it will come out of the chamber slightly smaller than the chamber, so if it won't go back in that is usually due to something you did in the reloading process.

The reasons I prefer neck sizing are not confined to accuracy. There's less working of the brass, and less likelihood of case head separations.

I have brass which has gone through literally dozens of loading cycles without ever being FL sized. It does get regular neck annealing. Case life appears to be limited by primer pockets not staying tight (not much of a problem if you don't try to load too hot), neck cracks from not neck annealing often enough, and losing cases in the field.

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thanks for posting this video shows the real real truth ! ALWAYS FULL LENGTH SIZE YOUR BRASS Pete53


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Dunno if you watched the video, or whatever, but the reason you noticed an improvement in accuracy with neck-sizing was NOT due to neck-sizing only. Instead it was due to the excellent job Lee Collet Dies do of keeping case-necks aligned with the rest of the case--whether it's FL sized or not. The Lee die does this despite variations in case-neck thickness.

But the reason "standard" full-length sizing often results in larger groups is NOT due to FL sizing itself, but the side-effects of using typical inexpensive FL dies--without checking whether the case necks (or seated bullets) are properly aligned with the case body.


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(ahem!)

Let me let you in on a little secret.
"IF" you're reloading for a Ruger No.1, full length size all your brass.
Neck size twice and the case will no longer chamber.
"IF" you're reloading for "Handi-Rifle", same thing.
Si Gle shot rifles have notoriously tight chambers.

I also use "SB" dies for my AR calibers.

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Originally Posted by pete53
Originally Posted by Spotshooter
…. Umm…. Yes they full length size but using custom dies based off their chamber spec.

I make my own sizing dies for my BR rifle - but I make custom NECK Dies so i can control the neck size I’m using.

i seen one benchrest shooter just use full length Redding die and a Redding seater and shoot the best groups of the weekend for 100 yards and 200 yards with his 6PPC at the State championship shoot and took most of the trophies that weekend too.

Which shows that there is often more than one way to skin a cat. Most shooters do not need the extreme accuracy that competitive shooters demand.

One reason that I use the equipment I do is because I am content shooting one inch groups for most things. I am also lazy. Lee Collet dies and either a FL die or a body die teamed with a feeler gauge works for me.

Everyone has different needs and expectations. There is no madness in diversity.


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Originally Posted by MartinStrummer
(ahem!)

Let me let you in on a little secret.
"IF" you're reloading for a Ruger No.1, full length size all your brass.
Neck size twice and the case will no longer chamber.

I have owned at least a couple dozen Ruger No. 1s, made from the 1970s to very recently, and have NOT found that to be universally true. Or even generally true.....


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I've shot silhouettes for many years and reloaded many cases multiple times . I have definitely seen one just neck sizing you cannot read chamber the case after a couple times without a lot of force.. this might have something to do with loading near the top end or not don't really know. it may have something to do with the resizing die you are using for neck sizing.. using a full length dye and bumping by 002 for me has been the easiest way to roll.

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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Everyone has different needs and expectations. There is no madness in diversity.

The entire population of Planet 4MOA rises up in resounding approval.

Look, I can't really say for sure that neck sizing caused a major improvement. However, what I can say is that both my sons and myself are shooting tighter groups over 10 years ago, and even over 5 years ago. The more I concentrate on better this and that, the tighter groups get. I won't say I was embarrassed by what I was shooting 20 years ago, when I lived on Planet 4MOA, but no one else around me was shooting any better. You have to remember, this is a fanciful world where a couple of rounds at a milk jug at 50 yards was called "sighting in." This is the enchanted planet where a 30-30 regularly stretches out and knocks deer dead at 300 yards-- offhand, mind you!

Little by little, I'm leaving the legacy of that planet behind me.


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