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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
I got my daily e-mail from the NRA this morning. One of the articles was titled, 5 Instances When Reloading Is Not Beneficial Went through the basics with the first (4), then it came to number (5). 5: You're Planning To Use It For Self-Defense https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/5-instances-when-reloading-is-not-beneficial/JFC I thought that myth was expelled when everybody realized Massad Ayoob was an idiot sponsored by ammunition manufactures. Back to the same question, find a single case where Handloads were used against the shooter in a good shoot.
Last edited by steve4102; 12/01/22.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,662 Likes: 12 |
They must be talking to that Ayoob charlatan..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2019
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Why would anyone GAF what NRA thinks? Their emails go right to my SPAM folder without being opened.
Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever!
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Joined: Nov 2018
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17,221 Likes: 38 |
"However, factory ammunition comes with an added value: a liability shift. Major manufacturers have run their products through extensive legal considerations and are prepared to handle anything that might come up through its use. Should you use your homemade ammunition in a life-or-death encounter, you might have to prove that you didn’t make it any more lethal than something commonly available at a sporting-goods store. Self-defense ammunition is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as paying a lawyer for the extra time to (hopefully) prove that you didn’t fire anything “enhanced” on the day of the incident."
lol
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2008
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Maybe they have to suck up to ayoob cause he's the only one still paying dues.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
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Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,558 Likes: 25 |
"However, factory ammunition comes with an added value: a liability shift. Major manufacturers have run their products through extensive legal considerations and are prepared to handle anything that might come up through its use. Should you use your homemade ammunition in a life-or-death encounter, you might have to prove that you didn’t make it any more lethal than something commonly available at a sporting-goods store. Self-defense ammunition is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as paying a lawyer for the extra time to (hopefully) prove that you didn’t fire anything “enhanced” on the day of the incident."
lol Is reloading for a 45 ACP considered to be an 'enhanced' 9mm? Any time you shoot a larger, more powerful caliber, isn't than an enhancement over a smaller caliber?
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
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I got my daily e-mail from the NRA this morning. One of the articles was titled, 5 Instances When Reloading Is Not Beneficial Went through the basics with the first (4), then it came to number (5). 5: You're Planning To Use It For Self-Defense https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/5-instances-when-reloading-is-not-beneficial/JFC I thought that myth was expelled when everybody realized Massad Ayoob was an idiot sponsored by ammunition manufactures. Back to the same question, find a single case where Handloads were used against the shooter in a good shoot. I don't understand why you're so out of sorts about this. It sounds like a very reasonable precaution. As for Ayoob being paid by ammo manuifacturers (it's not spelled "manufactures," BTW), what gun writer isn't. Free hunts and such.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Regular
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They must be talking to that Ayoob charlatan.. I'll let you have him on your team.😁
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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As long as suckers (born every minute) send them money the drum will continue.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,109 Likes: 20 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. That load is much enhanced over the 120 gr flat point hard cast in my 327. Remember the days when anything but ball ammo was a sure sign of a blood thirsty killer? The rhetoric over "dum-dums"? I think possession of HP ammunition is still prohibited in some jurisdictions.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
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Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. That load is much enhanced over the 120 gr flat point hard cast in my 327. Remember the days when anything but ball ammo was a sure sign of a blood thirsty killer? The rhetoric over "dum-dums"? I think possession of HP ammunition is still prohibited in some jurisdictions. HP's are not allowed in NJ. Unless you're a cop.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Aug 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 13 |
I got my daily e-mail from the NRA this morning. One of the articles was titled, 5 Instances When Reloading Is Not Beneficial Went through the basics with the first (4), then it came to number (5). 5: You're Planning To Use It For Self-Defense https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/5-instances-when-reloading-is-not-beneficial/JFC I thought that myth was expelled when everybody realized Massad Ayoob was an idiot sponsored by ammunition manufactures. Back to the same question, find a single case where Handloads were used against the shooter in a good shoot. I don't understand why you're so out of sorts about this. It sounds like a very reasonable precaution. As for Ayoob being paid by ammo manuifacturers (it's not spelled "manufactures," BTW), what gun writer isn't. Free hunts and such. It's not spelled manuifacturers, either......
While it's true that all liberals are crazy people, not all crazy people are liberals.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2017
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Attorney's are ruthless, I agree. Experts can be just as much, if not more so. The truth is, and I've been an expert in one case, was the shot justified or not. That's the only question that ever came up - on either side.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,790 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,790 Likes: 3 |
Fug those commie oxygen thieves.
When Wayne is gone and there is a profound apology and drastic change in behavior, we can talk about membership again.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
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To make matters worse, if you are in a urban enviroment, and shoot someone not of your race, you have a real up hill battle to fight. Media will not be on your side, jurors will likely not be your peers, and the judge will likely be liberal. You can be 100% in the right and still lose everything. Literally.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
That particular point made by the NRA is gratuitous at best. If the purpose of your having/using the firearm in a situation is self-defense (and is that not the core of the 2nd amendment?), you are entitled to the best defense you can manage.
Yes, this glut of greedy lawyers has heavily influenced the minute slicing/dicing of equipment used in such situations - purely trying to grab $$ from those who had to defend themselves against a criminal - which misuse of the law is sick and deplorable.
I would be immensely more interested in effectively protecting my loved ones and myself than I would be concerned about a sleazy lawyer trying to profit from my doing something basically sound and correct.
That ammo has been in the gun for a long time - I don't even know specifically what it is or who made it - so neither do you.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,293 Likes: 7 |
I requalify every year at the local PD or with the Sheriff's department. I carry the same ammo. Just to stay out of this garbage. I'm pretty sure whatever they are using will kill bad guys. I see no need to get all fancy and such.
kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
If the claim is made by the defendant that they were justified in shooting the attacker, the only factors a jury is allowed to consider are factors related to justification. The prosecutor is not even permitted to introduce evidence that your ammo was hand loaded, since that doesn't relate to whether the shooting was justified.
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