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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 5,569
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2021
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If the claim is made by the defendant that they were justified in shooting the attacker, the only factors a jury is allowed to consider are factors related to justification. The prosecutor is not even permitted to introduce evidence that your ammo was hand loaded, since that doesn't relate to whether the shooting was justified. I agree, I think the only time a "load" would come into question is if you shot the perp, bullet went through him, through the sheetrock, shattering the 2x4 stud, busted through the outside brick, traveled 50', went through the privacy fence, across the street, through a cars window and ended up lodged into the Twinkie that a 4 yr old in the back seat was getting ready to take a bite out of.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1 |
When Wayne is gone and there is a profound apology and drastic change in behavior, we can talk about membership again. Amen brother. Life Member here.
NRA Life Member
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Anyone remember Harold Fish and his choice of ammo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
I receive American Rifleman every month because I've been a Life Member for about 30 years. They go from the mailbox to the front seat of my pickup, ride into the garage with me, then go straight into the trash can. Except the ones with the ballots...I bring those in and handwrite my feelings toward the BoD and Skunkpierre on the ballots and mail them in.
Until the bylaws are changed so the BoD does not control the Nominating Committee, I am OUT and they'll never see another nickel of mine.
When I feel like contributing to the righteous cause, GOA gets my money.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
I receive American Rifleman every month because I've been a Life Member for about 30 years. They go from the mailbox to the front seat of my pickup, ride into the garage with me, then go straight into the trash can. Except the ones with the ballots...I bring those in and handwrite my feelings toward the BoD and Skunkpierre on the ballots and mail them in.
Until the bylaws are changed so the BoD does not control the Nominating Committee, I am OUT and they'll never see another nickel of mine.
When I feel like contributing to the righteous cause, GOA gets my money. Basically the same here (NRA Life Member since 1990), but became a LM of the Second Amendment Foundation instead of GOA. They are both good, but SAF spends their money fighting laws that violate the 2nd.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,258 Likes: 11
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,258 Likes: 11 |
I’m an NRA life member but haven’t given them an extra dollar in years. It still pisses me off to think that I sacrificed making payments on a lifetime membership during hard financial times and a layoff, thinking that I was doing something worthwhile. Meanwhile Wayne bought suits, and provided housing for a mistress.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 278
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 278 |
And we wonder why the enemy gets stronger. Divide and conquer. I agree with some of what I read here, but keep it to myself. Support who you want, I give to several, but attacking any pro gun group, or pro gun writer just plays into the hands of those who hate us.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 106 |
I was a member for 35 years. Wayne Lapierre, in my opinion, is a typical corporate crook. I'll wait to sign up again. Bastards call me every week.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Find one case, one single case where the prosecution used handloaded ammunition against the defendant in a self defense shooting. While you are at it, find a case where handloaded ammunition was a factor in a civil case.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. Depends on the State. Some States, MN for example, have passed legislation making difficult if not impossible to sue the shooter in a “justified” self defense shooting.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,652 Likes: 34
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,652 Likes: 34 |
In Washington if you are involved in a justified shooting or it’s ruled as justifiable self defense then you are immune to civil suits or further actions against you. If the state takes you to trial and you are found not guilty the state is required to pay all your legal fees and costs. So while this state has been going downhill we still have historically enjoyed a fairly decent stance towards our 2A rights. It’s only been the last decade where they’ve been trampled on by the new transplants and liberal geeks.
If I’m ever forced to use my firearm in self-defense I will be so clearly justified that the question of what ammo I’m using won’t be asked. If it is asked they can shove the answer up their ass because it changes nothing regarding the justification and justification is all that matters in those cases.
I do tailor my ammo to the perceived target. If I’m in the woods hollow points and heavy hard cast are in the cylinder or mags. If I’m in populated areas where innocent bystanders are present I carry lightweight or pre-fragmented rounds like Glaser Safety slugs or RBCD. I know there are some who don’t like lightweight or pre-fragmented rounds because they’ve read reviews but in my experience, real life experience, I’ve found those rounds to be devastating when used within their intended parameters just like any bullet.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. Find one case, one single case where the prosecution used handloaded ammunition against the defendant in a self defense shooting. While you are at it, find a case where handloaded ammunition was a factor in a civil case.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. Find one case, one single case where the prosecution used handloaded ammunition against the defendant in a self defense shooting. While you are at it, find a case where handloaded ammunition was a factor in a civil case. What’s your point
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 3,887 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 3,887 Likes: 2 |
If the claim is made by the defendant that they were justified in shooting the attacker, the only factors a jury is allowed to consider are factors related to justification. The prosecutor is not even permitted to introduce evidence that your ammo was hand loaded, since that doesn't relate to whether the shooting was justified. Ah I see what you mean now. Thanks hawkeye.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. Find one case, one single case where the prosecution used handloaded ammunition against the defendant in a self defense shooting. While you are at it, find a case where handloaded ammunition was a factor in a civil case. What’s your point Is that a question? Highlights the diversity of "true knowledge and expertise" we find on the Campfire. "This bad stuff will happen to you - no it won't because it hasn't."
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Retired LEO here. Most people do not realize that the attorneys don't take an oath to tell the truth during a trial. All they have to do is implant a suggestion that sticks with one of the jurors bias. So they can say anything, get it objected to, but the damage is done. If you should ever have the misfortune of being involved in a shooting, if your not charged criminally, you almost certainly will be sued. Either one is life-changing and expensive. I've been retired 13 years, and a jury trial back in my day with a decent attorney defending you in a homicide was 500K in SE Virginia. I still CC and my ammo is what I carried when it was issued to me, 9mm Golddot, 124 grain +P. Find one case, one single case where the prosecution used handloaded ammunition against the defendant in a self defense shooting. While you are at it, find a case where handloaded ammunition was a factor in a civil case. What’s your point Is that a question? Highlights the diversity of "true knowledge and expertise" we find on the Campfire. "This bad stuff will happen to you - no it won't because it hasn't." Ah, I get it, live in fear cuz somebody told you you should live in fear, just in case.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,057 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,057 Likes: 2 |
It doesn't matter what ammo you use, only the DA. The DA in the Rittenhouse shooting tried to vilify him over his ammo choice. Factory FMJ.....
Todd
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
It doesn't matter what ammo you use, only the DA. The DA in the Rittenhouse shooting tried to vilify him over his ammo choice. Factory FMJ.....
Todd Tried to, but it was objected to and sustained.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,952 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,952 Likes: 3 |
I do tailor my ammo to the perceived target. If I’m in the woods hollow points and heavy hard cast are in the cylinder or mags. If I’m in populated areas where innocent bystanders are present I carry lightweight or pre-fragmented rounds like Glaser Safety slugs or RBCD. I know there are some who don’t like lightweight or pre-fragmented rounds because they’ve read reviews but in my experience, real life experience, I’ve found those rounds to be devastating when used within their intended parameters just like any bullet. Honest question. Have you shot people? Or were these experiences responding to a scene where someone else shot the person?
GOA
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,709 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,709 Likes: 1 |
What the hell do I care about some attorney questioning me if I employed hand loads or factory? I’m still alive to be questioned. If the DA wants to question me....good ‘nuff. I can handle my own when it comes to ballistics, firearms, techniques et al. Let ‘em fire away with the questions. He better be ready to look like a damn fool. The NRA has little or NO input regarding such. MTG
Last edited by MTGunner; 12/02/22.
Vena dura, ocyus occide, excusas non offer!
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