Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Full Length vs Neck Sizing

give it up and try to be a little more positive

This is what I do.

I have multiple bins that identify rifle and number of firings. When I run out of, for example, Red Death 3x I process all the brass in the Red Death 4x bin.




P

Yeah, I generally FL size for big game rifles--but even if I don't, every case/round gets run through the chamber/rifle before I go hunting.

Use neck-sized or partial-sized cases a lot for high volume varmint shooting.

I’m not the bald-faced liar here, Paragraph Pete.

Al, I need someone to convert a SB body die to a bushing die. How hard is it to do that conversion?

oh the rifle is ordered , so does that mean when my 6.5 Creedmoor Fieldcraft rifle gets here you need a picture or wanna buy it ? to be more truthful your posts are very foolish grow up and try to be positive , you make people in the great state of Wisconsin sound dumb with your posts. what are you the little class clown ?

thank you for your comment .i do the same with my big game brass i full length resize or use new brass and check every loaded case rather it has been resized or new brass.
Pete53

I do both! If I have a measured headspace over 2 thou with my brass I never PFLS because I don't need or want a shoulder bump. Once measured headspace is tighter than 2 thou I will bump to maintain 2 thou headspace. Sometimes I fire new brass as many as 3 times before I will bump. Some people seem to believe that there is some vast reason to PFLS other than maintaining headspace which also maintains seating depth distance to the lands. Most reloaders are not in the proper seating depth node to begin with so may or may not reap any reward by PFLS every time



Trystan

Why would anyone PFLS other than to maintain headspace? Maintaining headspace is maintaining consistency? Isn't that the goal?

My 35Rem is an odd one. I've not been able to set my FLS die because the fired cases never need it. Nothing but neck sizing at the moment even after 10 firings (9 reloads). I normally set my FLS die for minimal FL sizing but the cases have never been a tight fit to warrant it. Mild loads I guess. The cases still do stretch of course but it's negligable.

I've necked sized for all of my bolt rifles for years. I only full length size if getting a bit hard to chamber. But some of my brass has been necked sized six or seven times and it's still OK to chamber. My 280 brass has all been neck sized and I don't think I have ever used the FL die in 24 years. I do full length my 7x57, 303B and 9.3x62 cases as they are chambered in my Number 1s.

So much easier to dip the case necks in graphite powder and neck size than apply case lube, size and then wipe it off.

Ditto… Every case I load gets checked in the rifle for chambering before loading and after loading regardless of whether neck sized or FL sized. All my belted magnums for hunting are new cases also checked for chambering before pack up!

Many, many factors contribute to runout. With varying neck thickness, you cannot eliminate ALL runout. Additionally, you may find runout in different places so it is sometimes important to consider if there is runout where the cartridge fits the chamber, or runout where the bullet lies in relation to the cartridge itself. For instance, a cartridge fired from a given chamber should have next to zero runout in the neck taken from the outside circumference of the neck. Once it is sized, there will be runout due to neck thickness variation. Your technique may affect this greatly. Are you using an expander ball? How do you lubricate? Are you using a bushing or a fixed die?

For instance, using a floating bushing may induce slightly more than a fixed die because of tolerance stacking. In my experience it will amount to around 0.001" added after sizing if I am not using an expander ball. However, neck thickness variation is being pushed INWARD such that it will affect the bullet when seating. This may result in actually bullet runout of 0.003". What matters more, a bullet completely centered and straight to the case and chamber or a neck perfectly centering in the chamber? If I run that same piece of sized brass through a pin gauge or expander die, I may change that neck to runout to 0.003" but TIR taken at the ogive may be 0.002".

Which is more advantageous for precision? Well, it depends. Do you have a tight neck chamber? How much clearance does your neck have? Where are you in that case's life? Have you reached the point where the doughnut has expanded and it contacts the chamber's neck at the last portion of the neck that remains un-sized? Where is the shoulder of your case relative to the chamber? If it varies with every shot, how does that affect the seating node of the bullet?

In my experience (which my understanding of is evolving all the time), I've won a few PRS and F-Class matches, it is most advantageous to control as many variables at one time as you can. That means first, using good quality brass. Second, that means you want to do the same thing every single time. If you do those things, runout, within reason, has a minor effect on the rifle's performance. Typically, I don't even bother checking runout on a squared-away setup because even 0.005" TIR won't hurt performance when everything is done right, though its typically a little less than that.

My typical competition loading process is to use Lapua or Alpha brass and to anneal before any sizing takes place and do so every single time. The first firing or two, typically brass still expands and bumping the shoulder back probably isn't helpful but its totally possible that some random cases will expand to do so so the notion of not FL sizing cannot be ignored on a large batch of 100--there may be a few in there that will have difficulty chambering. Sometimes it isn't a bad idea to take a piece of brass and fire it two, even three times until you learn your chamber dimensions to determine how far shoulders should be set back before you do a batch of once-fired brass. Figure out that dimension and use that number with your comparator set. Shoot for 0.002-0.003" of set back. I do use a bushing without an expander ball, because I don't use custom sizing dies and I do not turn necks. For sizing lube, I will use Imperial and only lube the body and outside neck of the brass, I keep it off the shoulder. Following sizing, I use Neo Lube #2 inside the necks for lubrication and run through a separate mandrel die as to not affect concentricity or shoulder set-back as an expander ball being pulled back through the case may. Afterward, I trim, chamfur, and deburr all in one step with a motorized trimmer. These steps are quick, easy, and they produce the same dimension every single time. Consistency adds more for me than constantly varying brass and headspace dimension could ever do; especially considering the drawbacks of neck-only sizing as mentioned in previous posts.

Drop point , yes i bet you never have trouble with your brass and i can see you understand how to build accurate safe ammo , but some of these reloaders just are not going to change their ways . never have used Neo Lube #2 but that sounds like a good ideal , i have always brush the inside of the neck ,i may need to get some of that type of lube. good post,Pete53

Thank you, pete, yes I am quite pleased with Neo Lube #2 if you ever get an urge to try it. Only downside is a bottle is over $20, but it will last a long time.

Drop Point, how are you applying the Neo Lube? I just got a bottle after seeing the results of using it on a video but I haven’t used any yet.

Drop point , is Neolube #2 applied every time ? or applied only once in a while ? i watched video on how to apply already and am going to order some i see a advantage using Neolube . thank you ,Pete53

Neo Lube comes with a brush attached to the cap, so I'll turn the cap upside-down and take a cotton swab and dab it into the brush. Just ran that swab inside the case neck two or three quick turns. It will evaporate and leave a film behind. Its impossible to over or under apply it. I do it just before using the expander mandrel. It also makes seating smooth as butter with very consistent pressures. It does need to be done each time. I originally started wet-tumbling and noticed seating pressures were increased and all over the place. Then I switched to graphite powder in ceramic beads but it was inconsistent. I heard about Neo Lube from Keith on Winning in the Wind, and it really seemed to be the ticket.

Thanks DP, I heard about the Neo Lube on the Bolt Action Reloading YouTube channel. He found it helped with uniform seating pressure, and found it to improve load ES, SD, and accuracy as well.

No problem at all.