Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Question for the Forum Democrats

Well said Mr. Bigsky,

Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears.

To simplify, we have two types of people for the most part. We have people that believe in the freedom and sovereignty of the individual and we have people that believe in the collective.

The collective is essentially Marxism. They are parasites looking for a free ride. You stop providing that for them and they will direct the government to destroy you, literally.

Conservatives believe in individual responsibly and that is essential for freedom.

Leftist manipulate people by appealing to their weakness, such as envy, envy is a wicked emotion. Selfishness, slothfulness, lazyness, victimhood etc... evil manipulations.

Marxism has failed every time it is tried 100%

Freedom succeeds every time it is tried.... it isn't easy.

The alternative promises easy, but soon it's discovered they lied, they do it for power and control and the "useful " idiots that fall for the lies will be the first to die under the new system.

Then they will force the slavery and misery on everyone. They will have to use force, as the productive people will stop producing if there is no reward and others benefit but they do not. Then the fun begins.

And the evil people that promised the free lunch will be entrenched and impossible to remove.

This is the history of civilization, until America was created by strong freedom loving wise men!!!

rick have you ever listened to a rush show....dont play dense.....bob

I'm not sure I relate to the "fairness" vector in conservatives being weaker than in liberals. I find most conservatives to have a VERY strong sense of right and wrong, another way to describe fairness.

It's my perception that liberals approach fairness, the violation of the sense of right and wrong if you will, differently than conservatives. I find the difference along the lines of the old proverb about giving the man a fish, vs. teaching a man to fish.

When a liberal sees injustice, his reaction is to give the poor fellow a fish, so he may eat. Preferably someone else's fish, but that's another discussion.

When a conservative sees injustice, he suggests the man learns to fish for himself, preferably by pulling himself up by his boot straps.

The difference, at it's core, is the liberal belief that justice is in the outcomes of life, where the conservative sees justice in the equality of opportunity. The liberal wants to distribute the goods in a fair and just way among everybody, whereas the conservative is content to simply have fair and just opportunity for everyone to obtain their own goods (equality and justice in the pursuit of happiness, if you will).

The psychology behind this difference must be interesting, and I strongly suspects it correlates nearly perfectly with the locus of control of the individuals: I suspect liberals will have a much more external locus of control than conservatives. They do not feel they can influence their lives outcome nearly as much as a conservative does.

Your reponse, Northman, is so full of absurdities and false assertions one hardly knows how to begin. However, it is a classic example, along with my following response of why we get nowhere.


This is not even close to true and a false assertion of the positions of the vast majority of Republicans. For the most part, conservatives want government out of most facets of our lives, that's it. The left calls that extreme right or, the ever popular "lets make up a new definition for a word that has negative connotations", facistic. Conservatives believe that government takeovers of things in which it has no business causes more harm than good. Historically speaking, modern day Republicans are more middle of the road or even left-leaning, than ever in history. You just see the gap created by Democrats moving further and further to the left.



The first half of the above statement is probably true and, we therefore feel it is worth saving rather than changing into something we don't want. The second half is, in my opinion, an absurdity. Things that really do, objectively speaking, need fixed, that require government to do so, usually have general agreement from liberals and conservatives. They just don't become evidence of bipartisan agreement. Unfortunately those things get lost in the morass of "government is the answer to everything".


I would agree that in certain areas in certain countries that may be true. However, conservatives believe that government "take over" causes way more problems than it solves. One can look at empirical data from the first 75% of the 20th century with respect to social issues and compare to now and see that is true. The more government got involved (trying to be like "other countries") the worse things became.



"A" country may be better than us an "AN ISSUE"; however, even as much as we conservatives complain about our government, it is interesting to note that, as you stated, we still think we have the greatest country in the world. However, you, and many like you, think we suck. There is a reason we are the number one destination of people leaving other countries and it's not because we are "worse at it" than they are.



First, the assertion that Republicans are refusing to pay taxes is flat out false and an example of how the Democrat and leftist control of the narrative makes people hate one another. However, taxes are an interesting issue. The vast majority of government spending on social programs is wasted on bureaucratic b.s. and graft. Government involvement in most social programs is worse than if there were no government involvement at all. However, many conservatives believe that we "should help those in true need". That ends up creating a perpetual system whereby government hand-outs become a way of life. Not for all but for many. Any time a Republican submits a means of streamlining and improving such systems, without negatively affecting what people truly in need would receive, those that control the narrative argue just as you did.



That's rich. To argue that corporations and big business are in league with Republicans just goes counter to everything we see on a day to day basis. The biggest corporations and businesses carry the water for the Democrat party and vice versa. To me, this comes down to idiotic economic policies which are implemented, once again, because of the control of the narrative. Irrespective of true intent, Democrat politicians lie about the "don't pay their fair share". I'm no apologist for this big corporations and the wealthy; however, that is probably the biggest lie in modern politics. I guess we could argue as to what is "subjectively" fair. However, under no metric could one objectively argue that our system of taxation is fair and that the rich don't pay their fair share. I know there is a point at which the argument fails. However, every single time our government has lowered tax rates, revenues to the government have gone up. What better way to fund "needed social programs" could possibly exist.

This crosses over to so many issues. However, arguing for lower tax rates to increase revenues to the government, incentivise more investment in business and products, thus creating more jobs for everybody, thus broadening the tax payer base and thus, again, increasing revenues to government coffers all the while not having corporations passing their increased tax costs onto the consumer simply becomes "tax cuts for the rich" and hating the little guy. It's simply absurd and devious. What I described has happened every time such tax cuts were implemented. Immensely more numbers of poor were helped by those tax cuts than were rich.

It is easier for those who control the narrative to assign evil motives and hate rather than to objectively discuss issues and remedies.

If you earned it legally, morally, and ethically...it's yours. Not mine. You will cherish it and value it more than I ever could.

If you can't work...I'll help.

If you won't work...you're on your own. Plenty of crappy low paying jobs out there being done by people with a bit of work ethic and integrity.

Don't dare to try and shame me and use my Christianity as a weapon against me when you aren't Christian and are actively trying to destroy it.

Our current student loan forgiveness fiasco is a classic example of where the parties/philosophies differ. We have a bunch of people who, of their own free will, entered into contracts to borrowed someone else's money while promising to pay it back. So far, so good. And then, they got an "education" or a "degree" that is worthless. Keep in mind that all other options were still available to them. Then, we have a political party that says "let's forgive that debt". For some odd reason, there are people, mostly conservative, who oppose that policy. In return, there can be no alternative other than to be labeled as hate mongers and racists and favoring the wealthy elite, most of whom are demonstrably leftist or at least left-leaning. These are the economic policies that divide us and rational discussion and empirical data are not allowed in this arena of ideas. The arguments have become insane.

It's to a point where white males are in fear of being in an automobile accident with "pick a minority or aggrieved individual" and being labeled as a racist or hate monger. It's nuts. It's nuts that I have to write this. What is the current political debate would have made a great comedic movie in years passed.

Well put. It seems odd that this position would be labeled “conservative “. I find it so reasonable that I’d call it moderate. Nothing extreme about it in the least. That others would call these beliefs extreme speaks volumes about our society.

Problem with Republicans, is that they are the most right wing party of ANY other comparable Western nation!!
Well, perhaps a few open Facists parties beats them.
Republican Party is not quite there yet... although its starting to show through the cracks..


Add to that, that most Republicans belive US to be the BEST AND FREEST country in the world...
Which sets them up to NEVER want to fix anything.. because why fix something that is perfect?

Meanwhile, the Western world has moved on and overtaken US on most metrics that measures wellbeing, work life balance, happiness, life expectancy.


Other western countries have:
Better worker safety
Better worker rights
Better worker vacation
Better worker regulations
Less exploitation by companies

Less dangerous food additives.
Safer food in general
Better conditions for farm animals
Cheaper and better healthcare
Better schools
Better social safety net
Better infrastructure
Better long term national planning
Cheaper Childcare
Lower rates of child mortality
Better internett coverage
Better cellular coverage


But, Republican answer is, FKUC all of you, We are the BEST...
Claiming US to be the best country in the world and claiming to love it, while refusing to pay taxes to actually fix things...


Just give corporations more power and remove some more workers rights, cut health insurance, and everything will be better... the market will fix things, I am certain.
(after Corporations pay of some more politicians, because money is free speech)

Problem with Republicans, is that they are the most right wing party of ANY other comparable Western nation!!
Well, perhaps a few open Facists parties beats them.
Republican Party is not quite there yet... although its starting to show through the cracks..


Add to that, that most Republicans belive US to be the BEST AND FREEST country in the world...
Which sets them up to NEVER want to fix anything.. because why fix something that is perfect?

Meanwhile, the Western world has moved on and overtaken US on most metrics that measures wellbeing, work life balance, happiness, life expectancy.


Other western countries have:
Better worker safety
Better worker rights
Better worker vacation
Better worker regulations
Less exploitation by companies

Less dangerous food additives.
Safer food in general
Better conditions for farm animals
Cheaper and better healthcare
Better schools
Better social safety net
Better infrastructure
Better long term national planning
Cheaper Childcare
Lower rates of child mortality
Better internett coverage
Better cellular coverage


But, Republican answer is, FKUC all of you, We are the BEST...
Claiming US to be the best country in the world and claiming to love it, while refusing to pay taxes to actually fix things...


Just give corporations more power and remove some more workers rights, cut health insurance, and everything will be better... the market will fix things, I am certain.
(after Corporations pay of some more politicians, because money is free speech)

Measuring the ‘good’ life around the world
By Jacob Poushter

What makes a good life? Usually this question is in the domain of priests, philosophers and metaphysicians, but the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), a think tank consisting of 34 mostly rich countries, sought to find the answers with data.

The organization’s Better Life Index looks at 23 indicators of current well-being across 11 domains, from how much people earn and the cost of housing, to life expectancy, and even to how much time off people get from work. Most of the indicators are culled from OECD’s own research based on country-level government data, but they also include public opinion surveys – all of which could be combined to form scores on a “well-being” scale.

The Many Ways to Measure a 'Good' LifeOverall, a Pew Research Center analysis of the data finds that life is good in most of these countries – almost all fall within the organization’s average range. But well-being is notably better for people in Norway and the U.S. than it is for people in Turkey and Mexico.

And there’s a lot of nuance in between. For example, if you think well-being is defined by financial wealth and household income, the U.S. is the place for you. But if you prefer time off from work, France is the ideal place, by far, to put down roots. On the other hand, if you are trying to avoid victimization and dying from assault, Mexico is not your ideal destination.

The reports’ authors looked at the essential ingredients that shape people’s well-being in these 34 nations. To standardize different measures, OECD converted each indicator to a “z score” that represents standard deviations above or below the 34-nation average. The OECD average is represented by a z score of 0; scores closer to 1 and above represent higher well-being and those closer to -1 and below indicate lower well-being. We analyzed the data by averaging the z scores across all 23 indicators to see how the countries ranked. For this average, each indicator received equal weight.

Our analysis finds that overall, people’s well-being is higher in Northern European countries, such as Norway (average relative well-being score of 0.74) and Iceland (0.67), both which score high in terms of employment and job security, as well as environmental factors, such as having clean air and water.
Life Is Pretty Good in Norway and the U.S., Not So Great in Mexico and Turkey

Other rich countries, like Australia (0.59), the U.S. (0.54) and Canada (0.53), do well on account of high perceived health and larger homes (rooms per person). Denmark, while scoring high (0.45), lags behind the U.S., in part because of more expensive housing and less wealth.

The U.S.’s well-being score is bolstered by the fact that it far surpasses all other OECD nations in income and wealth measures. The only country to come even close to the U.S. when looking at wealth is Switzerland, and even it falls well short. However, in terms of jobs, the U.S. lags comparatively in one important well-being factor: time off.

This is not a problem for the French. Across the countries where time off is measured, France has the highest score (2.20). France finds itself in the middle of the pack (overall 0.18) on many other factors, contributing to its close to average well-being score.

Other middle of the road well-being scores occur in places like Japan (0.16), South Korea (-0.23) and Israel (-0.23). In these countries, they might score noticeably high or low in a few categories, but, overall, come up about average.

For example, South Korea lags behind due in part to the low score it gets for perceived health and social support. Only 35% of Koreans say their health is “good” or “very good,” and 72% believe that they know someone they could rely on in times of need, the lowest such score across OECD countries. But Koreans do score very high on education and housing affordability.

Many Southern and Eastern European countries find themselves slightly below the OECD average on overall well-being. For Southern Europe, that’s partly because of low scores in educational attainment and employment, and for Eastern Europe, lower income and life expectancy play a factor.

In Hungary, life expectancy is a large factor to its relatively low well-being score. Hungarians live an average of 75 years, nearly five years lower than the OECD average. Hungarians are also one of the grumpier countries in the OECD, with a life satisfaction grade of 4.9 out of 10, much lower than the average OECD grade of 6.6.

But the bottom of the list includes poorer emerging economies, such as Turkey (-1.27) and Mexico (-1.48).

Turkey’s score is hurt by a variety of factors, such as a high percentage of people working more than 50 hours per week (41%) and basic sanitation (relative score of -3.34). But it is important to remember that Turkey is an emerging economy: While economic circumstances aren’t the only factors affecting happiness, people in richer nations, on average, report being happier.

Mexico ranks even lower, partially because of the high crime rates in the country. With 12.8% of people in Mexico saying they’ve been assaulted or mugged in the past year, and a homicide rate of 23.4 per 100,000 people, fixing the nation’s violent crime issue would be a big step to improving the country’s overall well-being. Still, other factors, such as poor education and low social support, keep Mexico on the bottom of the index.

For more detailed country data on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various indicators used in the index, you can download the data directly from OECD.

I have a question for the forum Democrats. What is the issue that takes you over the top?

Your party continues to drift leftward. O.K., I get it, there is still something that, in your opinion, the Democrat party has to offer over the Republicans, that makes it so that you will ignore "things that work". Higher inflation, lower employment, more drugs, more illegal immigration, tax payer dollars to non-citizens, allowing minors to transition, white hate, destruction of minority communities (which I argue is blatant racism) etc. are all not enough for you to vote for Republicans over Democrats.

It's tough to decipher for someone like me.

I think it's mostly the hate, racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, xenophobia, science denial, climate change denial, anti-vaxx views, that are spread by the Republican party!

So much of it seems intended to appeal to nasty and stupid people!

How can anyone find such things inspiring?

Gooschiets crew is wholesome and clean.