Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Rolling Copper Pipe

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Getting off of the Politics for 1 post.

Has anyone Rolled or had Rolled Ridged Type L Copper tubing.

I am looking at Making a wood/oil burning water heating system for my off grid place in Arizona.

I have went round and round about my designs for this system from a Copper Tube manifold to a Stainless Steel Tank back to the Copper Manifold for the heated water part of my system.

I used a half of an 80 gal Air Compressor Tank for the Fire pot which is 20 inch Diameter.

I would like to Role (curve) a 3/4 inch Type L Copper tubing to about 24 inch Diameter to go up against the exterior Fire Pot Wall with an Air Gap between them.

I just met a guy with a shop that has a Tubing Rolling Machine they have had it for several years and never used it and he told me that I can come in and use it for free and they will actually see it work.

I have been looking for soft 3/4 inch Type L copper tube in a role form and I can only find 1/2 inch in the soft Tubing.

My concern is will the Ridged hard Copper bend with out crippling or even shattering.

Has anyone on the Fire Rolled or had Rolled Hard Ridged Copper water pipe.

I already have investigated and took some on line classes for Solar water heating systems and I do understand about heat expansion and the dangers of it

My question is about the bending of hard Copper?

Any Help would be appreciated

Anneal the hard copper- - - - -make a metal fire box with a couple of holes in it, build a fire in it, and pull the straight copper pipe through the flame by sliding it through the holes. A little experimentation will determine what speed the pipe needs to be pulled through the flames to soften it sufficiently to roll-form without kinking.

A quick search showed Amazon had soft 3/4" in 100' rolls. Try a local plumbing house or AC /re fridge joint then you won't have to roll out hard pipe or solder then roll. What kind of flow are you trying to get to? Assume more than 1/2" will provide.

I've never rolled the type "L" but believe the proper die on a good roller would work just fine. You can al;ways buy one stick and experiment...

I found the soft Copper 60ft lengths for $289
Out of Stock here in Commyfornia.
I can get 80ft of hard for $175 in Stock.

That shop owner made a suggestion about annealing the Hard Copper with MAP Gas that stuff scares me.

I told him that I would rather use Oxy/Acet. is is safer to use.

The Soft Type L would be my best bet but the cost is a bit much.

Thanks for the advise/
There is a lot to consider with this project.

Firewood is cheaper than MAPP or O/A, at least here in Tennessee. Use a leaf blower to add some air if you want to raise the heat and speed up the annealing process. Blacksmiths have been doing that for centuries- - - - -they just used bellows on their forges.

Find an old moonshiner. Those guys had to roll / form copper pipe for the worm on a still, back before copper tubing came in a coil. Seems like i remember something about filling the pipe with sand so it wouldn't kink or collapse, and using a de-barked poplar log as a form to wrap it atound.

use the soft copper the cost will be less cost that fartt ing with the hard stuff, and easier in the machine . If you anell the hard will you get it even enought not to have a split or other probalems.

norm

I use a Liebig condenser on my still so haven’t had to roll copper for a long time but I can buy 3/4 inch soft coiled copper at nearly any hardware store here.

Is this the stuff you're looking for? LOWES 3/4 SOFT COPPER

Use K or L software copper and be sure that if you have to connect more than 1 roll to use something with a fairly high melting temp, not regular solder, just in case you have a situation with runaway temps. It would really suck to have a a separation in the coil.

Also, I'm not sure about using an air gap between the fire chamber and the coil. Air is a poor conductor of temperature. I've heard of people filling the gap with sand instead of air. Maybe research that option a bit more.

Built a few water heaters with barrel stoves but I didn't use copper.

I used iron pipe, mine were like this image but my 90s were inside the stoves.
Just two holes in the stove wall, a inny and a outty and they were in the back of the barrels not the front where they are in the way.
1 regular 90 screwed to a street 90 for the shortest turn around.



Made a welded up version for the house that was wood/propane, but I went with a water jacket instead of the pipe.

It's a lot like the cut away of this one shows.



Maybe copper would hold up but the temps get extreme, can't imagine it lasting for the long haul.

I used one barrel stove water heater for 15 years, had a 100 gallon storage tank it fed, install a pressure relief valve unless you're just making a bomb.

I am going to Silver Solder all of the joints
I already tried to do a pretty tight bed with some 1/2 inch Type L soft Copper and it just crippled it up
So I purchased a Bunch of 90 deg. Elbow's , 90 deg. Street Elbow's and 45 deg Elbow's and I was thinking that it may be better to just bend the Tube at a radius equal to the Fire Box radius + a little for air gap clearance. The Air Gap is to try and keep the System from Boiling. Boiling creates pressure and I plan on Expansion tanks and Blow off valves. But some time those Pressures can get out of hand BOOM there goes my system
I am going to wrap the entire system up with a 2 inch thick Ceramic Insulating Blanket and then wrap that with some Galvanized sheet metal to hold it all together and keep the rats , Mice and any other Varmint from stealing the Insulation.

I have 50+ years of firewood on my property as it sits right now so firewood is not an issue and I plan on building a Solar System to be used in the hot months so that I do not have to feed a Fire year round.

I may just go ahead and use all of the 45 deg. Fittings that I purchased to make the bends around the radius instead of the high cost of soft Copper and the questionable experimenting with the Hard Copper.

I looked into Buffer Tanks and was going to fab one out of Stainless until I did a bit of Homework.
It is cheaper just to purchase a large Water Heater and not hook up the Heater and then I am planing on installing a small water heater maybe even an On Demand Tank less Water Heater for the final Heating with Circulating pumps for the Solar and Wood Stove Heaters to circulate the preheated water in and out of the larger storage tank.

I still worry about the Pressure change while heating and I purchased a Back Flow Valve to keep the heated Water from backing up into the buried PVC line that will be installed under ground.

Never used any pumps, convection circulates water just fine.

I think a lot, the same as you.... I heat the house with wood. So. why not run a copper tubing inside the wood stove to pre heat the water before it goes into the water heater.... that way, the water heater is just an instrument to maintain the already heated water....

Great idea, and very possible to engineer, even with my limited skill.

Here is the problem. At least, this is the problem I am trying to overcome.

When you run water into a metal pipe and then introduce heat on the outside, the water inside the pipe, as it gets heated, sheds the dissolved minerals that is in the water and it accumulates on the inside of the pipe in the form of hard mineral scale. Eventually, the pipe the water moves thru will become clogged with mineral scale. And then, you have 300 bucks of copper tubing junk.

I have tried this on two different occasions with a side arm water heater that I had used with an outdoor boiler set up I had for a while. The second time I tryed I had installed a water conditioner that was to remove the mineral deposits in the water, And, it helped. However, the same thing happened, it just took longer to clog the pipe with hard water scale.

let me know what you think.

The 3/4 Coils of Type "K" Copper is easy to work with. It comes in a Coil for a reason and is considered softer Copper and not really hard copper. Used everyday here for City Water installs. No need for Soldering or Brazing. If it were me I would simply roll the Copper tubing around the tank eliminating the air between the two. You can even stack more than one roll for more copper tubing volume. The copper is flexible, just take your time as you won't kink it if you pay attention. Never put sand in my Copper tubing as I didn't need to! Use Compression or Flair Fittings as it doesn't get much easier. Don't get wrapped up in all the nonsense fittings as these old school type fittings are still used everyday for pressured water systems. The Compression fittings have the brass Ferule in it and it's beveled and as you tighten the nut you'll hear squeaking and weird torquing sounds as the metal on metal will create these noises.(normal) Some guys use dawn dish soap or plumbers lube when installing to make it slippery and eliminating the sounds and noises. Both ways work fine. The other preferred method is using the 3/4 flare tool,(don't forget to slide the nut on before you flare), and again your flaring your own end of the pipe to seat against the fitting and when you tighten the nut it will seal the joint. If it were me I would do my flares while that section was still straight as when you strike the flaring tool it,(the copper tube), absorbs the shock and it will make it harder to create the flare if your pipe is curled! Sometimes you'll get a split in the soft copper, but really no biggie as the pipe lube will help to eliminate it. It's important to hit the tool straight on so you get a good Flair. Not really that complicated. If you screw it up, just remake it as the more you make the better you get. Personally I wouldn't fall for all the newer Fittings on the market as I haven't needed them and I still make a lot of repairs old school. Not knocking it, just haven't needed it. IMO!!!

HS 58

Type "K" copper already comes in rolls. A utility supply house can set you up.

You could just go to your hot water pressure washer joint and order a replacement coil. They're steel and multiple layers of coil.....and designed for flame contact......and a stock part should you need to repair.

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