Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Thank you Rifle rank.

Very interesting. Look forward to more.

I had good dealings with Cal and we are lessened by his passing.

Best wishes, Chris

Outstanding write up Sir Ron !

Someone had posted on a different forum, that the Hammer Bullets are now cleansed of the machine oil. Referenced Weatherby's request. I received some .358, 203 grain Shock Hammers the other day. Not a hint of oil on these. Personally, that is my preference. Saves me the cleansing ritual.

Thanks Sir Ron for all those riches... well done! What a wealth of information for our .458s.


Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Interesting stuff in this thread. However, I have never had an interest in the .458 win mag. I recently saw one that I almost bought. Built on a mauser 98 action, in a cheap (but nice) synthetic stock. Shop wanted $349.99 for it. That shop actually just got in a bunch of Whitworth's, some of them chambered in 458WM. Beautiful rifles, priced around $1,000-1,500.00. Then I know of a certain pawn shop that has ammo and reloading supplies for it. Hmm. Should work well on jackrabbits??

Should work on rabbit through rhino.

You wouldn't like one at all BSA...

I mean what could be fun about hunking 250-600 grain bullets with unreal accuracy from a good rifle, that LD mentions is good nuff from mice to T-Rex's

Hmmm. Will one reach out to 400 yards??

Of course it will reach.

Don’t look at all these guys like Gunner and similar hammering stuff with 700+ grain Blackpowder loads running 1300-1400 FPS..

If you rewind this thread some, you’d see some terrific shooting by some of these posters.

Ah, ha. Thanks for reminding me. I have not looked at this whole thread, but remember Gunner texting me some pics of some groups he shot with some of his heavy bullets and iron sights at long range. That guy hammers schidt way out there... Geez, you guys are enablers!!! Should I buy a nice Whitworth or a cheap plastic stocked rifle? And a better dental plan, for when my fillings fall out... ha ha..

Whitworths are designed not to kick that hard. My whitworth is a pussy cat. Kicks less than most of my 338s. I have Parker Hale Safari that will kick you pretty hard. I have heard that the Browning Safari 458s kicked very much like that mean cross-eyed girl with cowboy boots from the third grade- the one that wanted to be Nellie Olson.

He sure does. Just like everything else, takes the rifle set up, but with the set up some of these fellas are running with the 404 Hammers at 2400-2500 trajectory isn't so much different than a 35 Whelen with a 250 grain bullet or similar. While not a flatliner, it'll still get some distance!

Think Billy Dixon Adobe Wells
Or
Bill Bagwell about everywhere.
Or
Phil Shoemaker and Old Ugly on wounded moose.

458wm and long range is that sort of game.

But at the range most game is killed, that 400 hammer load is just like anything else; it’s all about the shooter.

Great post Fury. I was half azzed just joking about 400 yards. Not joking about my fillings though. ha ha..

Hear Here !!!

bsa1917hunter,
The correct thing to do is get both the shopmule Mauser and the Sunday-go-to-meeting Whitworth .458 WinMags.
A man can never have too many .458 WinMags.
I agree wholeheartedly with all the good advice you received from the other Square Table Knights above.
Soon you may have a seat too.

About some fun shooting with the .458 WinMag, one can duplicate or exceed anything from Trapdoor to .458 Lott,
subsonic 600-grainers to +2500 fps 404-grainer with high BC, etc.

Here are some videos showing the .458 SOCOM ringing steel at 350 yards
and penetrating more than 12 one-gallon jugs of water,
all with a 600-grain FN cast bullet at 1050 fps:

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/forums/topic/htc459-600-rf-cb3-600gr-458-socom-videos/

Full Lead Taco posted those at the NOE site.
He also likes the pointy 500-grainer for saving on lead.

The 404 gr Shock Hammer at a no-sweat / easy 2300 fps, scope sighted 2" high at 100 yds, seems like a very easy 200 yard trajectory, wind drift, and remaining velocity for about anything with hooves.

For me this bullet upped the 458 uses.
Thanks again to Sir Ron for his tenacity to get this bullet into production.

Amen, Sir Larry. That is essentially what I did for my most recent deer cull.

I consider the .458 B&M+ with COL of 3.08" to be identical to the .458 WinMag at COL of 3.34"
with whatever bullet is being used, regarding load data and results.

My load with the 404-grainer starting off at about 2350 fps passed right through that deer at 200-yards, dead on and dead right there.
The 80.0-grain AA-2230 charge will give about 2350 fps in an 18" barrel and about 2500 fps in a 24" barrel
of a .458 WinMag shooting that 404-gr Shock Hammer.
Make it 3.38" COL to work in any factory .458 WinMag magazine box,
or 3.48" COL if you and your rifle like that COL better.
If you go as short as 3.28" COL then less powder will be needed to equal those velocities in the .458 WinMag.

Usual safety disclaimer: Whatever COL you like, work up from 10% below my favorite charge of 80.0 grains AA-2230,
for goal of 2300 fps to 2500 fps MV with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.

The 404 with a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps, at 200 yards should Hammer anything in North America. It is still plenty above the velocity threshold for petal shear and lots of penetration.

Gunner's African critter slaying / field trials certainly provided some great examples of this 404 grain bullet's worthiness.

This 404 Shock Hammer is definitely a do-all bullet in the 458 for non-solid duties. It was instant like at opening a box of that first order.

The 404 Hammer, the 380 grain Lehigh Copper Flat Point, the 350 grain North Fork Expanding Cup Solid, and the CEB 325 #13 Safari Solid are my present favorites.
I do want to give the CEB 400 grain #13 Safari Solid a shot at the range. I am interested to see the potential POI match up with the 404 Hammer.

Cabin fever overcame me Sunday at 1 PM as the sun was out and it was in the mid fifties F.
So even though the trees were waving all about in the wind, I went to the public range.
At the concrete shooting bench, a 50-round box of ammo more than half full was tipped over by a gust when I opened the lid.
Oh well. I hung a sandbag under the tripod of the Caldwell G2 chronograph and fired 5 shots with each of 3 loads.
Good enough for now.
Saving the rest to compare POI with the Shock Hammers on a calm day.
Both of these hardcasts shoot about same.
The shorter one will be good in a .458 SOCOM, it was designed for that use.







The 25" Shilen contour No. 5.5 barrel as equipped for the shoot:



Dress her like this to take about a pound off:



Sadly, the Nikon scopes were discontinued, happily the 6.5-ounce Leupold 2.5X was still available
last time I checked.



I told the Range Master to remind me not to visit when the wind was blowing like this.
He told me I might as well quit shooting then, as it is always windy there.
He was exaggerating just a little.

Cool info. Were you shooting at 50 yards, just because of the wind?

Shooting at 50 yards because:

1. It is the only spot at local public range where terrain allows my chrono to be set up high enough on tripod to allow readings at 5 yards and be able to shoot into a target.
Only other option there is to go down to 600-yard bench where the ground is flat, without a significant drop-off in front of the bench.
I have two functional optical chronos (Caldwell G2 and Oehler 35P) and will not pay for a Lab Radar until I shoot those opticals into nonfunctionality.
I have killed two chronos in the past with shotgun wads.
Waiting to kill two more.
With Lab Radar I could shoot from any bench.

2. At 50 yards the big bore rifle goal is to get three bullets into the same hole.
50 yards is the critical spot-on range for a big bore DGR for offense or defense.
Screw the 5-shot groups for group size with the big bores whether at 50 yards or 100 yards.
5 shots takes too prolonged a concentration on shooting technique to be as much fun as 3 shots.
5 shots per load is done only in looking for the magical standard deviation of less than 5 fps for those 5 shots.
Depending on the rifle's accuracy node, that could have decent accuracy potential and functional load potential.

3. Yes wind drift at 50 yards might only be 2" on a bad day, but it would be closer to 4" at 100 yards.
Horizontal stringing including lulls and gusts could be whatever the stated drift is plus any shooter error plus any rifle&ammo error.
More frustrating at longer ranges: Was it me or was it the wind ?

My latest chronographing was good enough to prove a load of 81 grains AA-2230 with my hardcast, PC-painted, gas-checked bullets.
Accuracy potential is there.
When I go back to shoot a final zero in comparison to Shock Hammers,
I now know the loads with those bullets and the Shock Hammer are interchangeable.
And I will do it on a calm day !

I do have 1:18" and 1:20" twist rifles chambered for .45-2.6" StarLine brass fired in chambers with .458 WinMag throating.
They are only 2 grains of water bigger than the .458 WinMag
Dave Manson reamer will so alter any .45-70 Govt. chamber. Identical to .45-70 Elko Magnum of CIP homologation.
Slower twist might be better for cast, but the 1:14" .458 WinMag twist is doing well enough, even at +2500 fps with 400-ish-grainer.
Probably could kill a deer with that .458 WinMag and the Hi-Vel Hardcast,
might work for woodchucks too.
For sure a good practice load to save on Shock Hammers.