shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
Ever heard of hardcast....
Lol
What’s the point of this?
Obviously you don't get it... think hard, take a deep breath & watch it again, then think some more. Dont be that dipstick in ideho that thinks Alaskans that use slugs/double ought are dip schits.
Yep I don’t mind saying so at all… I don’t get it. Having owned 45-70s, 458s, 416s, 500 NE 3” and A-SQ, 375s and cast my own. Again I am not sure what you are pointing out? A soft swaged 12 ga lead slug breaking a cinder block? Big whoop. A hard cast 45-70 load shot at no man’s land velocity for a hard cast breaking a cinder block? Big whoop. Incidentally, I’d take the 45-70 over the 12 ga any day but that sure as hell wouldn’t be my load. So tell me again because I don’t connect the dots nonsense videos of brick and frying pan shooting videos. What got you so excited and verified whatever stance you have on this?
That was one well known story regarding a experienced guide, not a typical example, keep trying though
No. I'm not trying anything. I've now heard from the "Garden Island" man. Your opinion is the gold standard. I'm a Marine War Veteran. I completely defer to you as to whether I, or anyone else, other than a particular guide, can fire a semi-auto rifle or handgun rapidly at a target under pressure when their life is threatened. Thank you for your wisdom!!!! Just to confirm my absolute faith in your complete knowledge of all things bear related, what is your basis for that? I mean, just to be sure, which I mostly am. I don't doubt your omnipotence in all things. I just want to reinforce it so that I can tell all I know with credibility about the bear-defense prophet and all of his knowledge about how what cannot be done, including firing a second round into a bear about 1/5th of a second after the first shot. I adore your knowledge and unbelievable style in your advocacy thereof.
Sorry dude, although it is much appreciated, I cant stick with your long winded admiration and didn't finish your tirade.
The point is a 9mm in the hands of a experienced guide is usefull. Do you think that would be his first choice? Do you think multiple shots during a bear attack is typical? Do you think?
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
Sorry dude, although it is much appreciated, I cant stick with your long winded admiration and didn't finish your tirade.
The point is a 9mm in the hands of a experienced guide is usefull. Do you think that would be his first choice? Do you think multiple shots during a bear attack is typical? Do you think?
What's your personal experience in bear killing or hunting was one of my points. I never above advocated a 9mm. Yeah, I think if you have a good semi-auto and some competence, you can fire a second shot about 1/5th of a second after the first at the same target. What is your personal knowledge that disputes that? What experience do you have on this? Simple question.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
Ever heard of hardcast....
Lol
What’s the point of this?
Obviously you don't get it... think hard, take a deep breath & watch it again, then think some more. Dont be that dipstick in ideho that thinks Alaskans that use slugs/double ought are dip schits.
Yep I don’t mind saying so at all… I don’t get it. Having owned 45-70s, 458s, 416s, 500 NE 3” and A-SQ, 375s and cast my own. Again I am not sure what you are pointing out? A soft swaged 12 ga lead slug breaking a cinder block? Big whoop. A hard cast 45-70 load shot at no man’s land velocity for a hard cast breaking a cinder block? Big whoop. Incidentally, I’d take the 45-70 over the 12 ga any day but that sure as hell wouldn’t be my load. So tell me again because I don’t connect the dots nonsense videos of brick and frying pan shooting videos. What got you so excited and verified whatever stance you have on this?
Are you daft? Or just wish to as argue? Giving you the benefit and assume that arguing on the internet fulfills some need you have. Go back and read what has been said, slowly. Its quite simple.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
"'This hunter was walking through some downed timber when he was attacked by a bear at a very close range,' says Morgan Jacobsen, Information and Education Program manager for Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Region 3. But, like in last week’s attacks, the hunter was prepared. 'During the attack, he shot at the bear several times with a pistol,' Jacobsen says. 'The bear subsequently left.' ..." https://www.kxlf.com/news/fourth-hu...gravelly-mountains-within-about-one-week
Sorry dude, although it is much appreciated, I cant stick with your long winded admiration and didn't finish your tirade.
The point is a 9mm in the hands of a experienced guide is usefull. Do you think that would be his first choice? Do you think multiple shots during a bear attack is typical? Do you think?
What's your personal experience in bear killing or hunting was one of my points. I never above advocated a 9mm. Yeah, I think if you have a good semi-auto and some competence, you can fire a second shot about 1/5th of a second after the first at the same target. What is your personal knowledge that disputes that? What experience do you have on this? Simple question.
I covered this earlier, if yer going to interject, please read the thread.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
"'This hunter was walking through some downed timber when he was attacked by a bear at a very close range,' says Morgan Jacobsen, Information and Education Program manager for Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Region 3. But, like in last week’s attacks, the hunter was prepared. 'During the attack, he shot at the bear several times with a pistol,' Jacobsen says. 'The bear subsequently left.' ..." https://www.kxlf.com/news/fourth-hu...gravelly-mountains-within-about-one-week
Thats not a bear attack, that's a thwarted bear attack. Two completely different things. If you have time, you have options... bear attacks leave few options. People have in their head how these things play out, problem is bears have their own playbook.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
What's your personal experience in bear killing or hunting was one of my points. I never above advocated a 9mm. Yeah, I think if you have a good semi-auto and some competence, you can fire a second shot about 1/5th of a second after the first at the same target. What is your personal knowledge that disputes that? What experience do you have on this? Simple question.
I covered this earlier, if yer going to interject, please read the thread.
No, you didn't. You said that bear go the other way from you, but you didn't identify any experiences with bear defense. Prove me wrong.
What's your personal experience in bear killing or hunting was one of my points. I never above advocated a 9mm. Yeah, I think if you have a good semi-auto and some competence, you can fire a second shot about 1/5th of a second after the first at the same target. What is your personal knowledge that disputes that? What experience do you have on this? Simple question.
I covered this earlier, if yer going to interject, please read the thread.
No, you didn't. You said that bear go the other way from you, but you didn't identify any experiences with bear defense. Prove me wrong.
For criss sakes, are you from idehoe as well?
Late to the game. Cant read. Love to argue.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
No way am I relying on shot to get through heavy hair and having energy to get deep and kill fast. Plus it is going to expand very little if any at all, minimal energy transfer, the .33 caliber pellets aren't very heavy.
Yeah, I know there is 000 which probably works fine as long as everything goes smooth but if it were going smooth you wouldn't be in the situation to defend yourself.
At least with a large caliber rifle you can break bones that bullet is capable of breaking several in one shot.
Never been in bear country but I can see something in .33 or larger and an 18-20" barrel being mighty handy.
I have been in bear country and have taken a few, with a rifle, and mostly because they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time.
If I am hunting I am carrying a rifle and a hand cannon of some sort, typically mdl 29 in a chest rig. If I am on shore fishing walking etc, I would be carrying a pistol and possibly a shotgun if I am particularly concerned about bears. Usally I am not.
Regarding shotgun vs pistol, I would contend the shotgun is more effective, just considering shot placement, in other words I would prefer some double ought hit the bear, rather than a miss with a handgun, which is often likely, bear attacks are fast and I would consider someone lucky if they got off two shots before the bear was on em, they can be seriously sneaky bastards...
Typically alternate between slugs and double ought.
I called it. Surprised it took 7 pages to get there, usually happens sooner. I too am curious about the experience that lead to this idea sprouting up again.
Phil came to visit me and take some pictures of a rather famous rifle I now own. He brought pictures of the bear and told me the story. The bear looked like it had been hit with a belt fed weapon. If I remember correctly he and a client were going to do some fishing in an area where bear not expected to be. He was forced to shoot it to protect the client. He brought his normal back up gun to show me. It was a 458 so I am pretty sure the pistol would not be his first choice but it was what he had at the time.
It’s my fault! 😁 Observing bear stopping related topics on another forum with similar comments made me remember the fairly extensive testing that John Linebaugh did with various handguns and popular big bore African rifles.
Many people have zero faith in handguns as a stopping cartridge for bears. The test shows some cartridges/bullets to be superior, at least in penetration, to some of the proven African big bore rifles. Yet, with the texts conclusions, people still think that handguns with proper loads are inferior.
Excluding the “shotgun crowd” ….it strikes me as peculiar that some chose the rifle over the properly chambered/loaded handgun. The handgun, is easier to keep on your body at all times, easier to put into use in tight quarters (while getting a “bear hug”), and can likely get a second shot off faster than a bolt gun, or about the same timeframe as a lever gun.
Some downplay the handgun as being less accurate than the rifle! If one is actually being attacked by a bear, most anyone should be able to get at least one shot placed pretty accurately, as the distance will be measured in a few feet …. Not 20 plus yards, where the accuracy benefits lean toward the rifle! JMO. memtb
Last edited by memtb; 02/09/23.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
But nobody with a brain knows they’re going into a fight and chooses a handgun over a rifle. A handgun is a weapon of convenience and compromise. Unless my hands are going to be full with an activity like dipnetting or berry picking, I’m taking a rifle.
But nobody with a brain knows they’re going into a fight and chooses a handgun over a rifle. A handgun is a weapon of convenience and compromise. Unless my hands are going to be full with an activity like dipnetting or berry picking, I’m taking a rifle.
Some downplay the handgun as being less accurate than the rifle! If one is actually being attacked by a bear, most anyone should be able to get at least one shot placed pretty accurately, as the distance will be measured in a few feet …. Not 20 plus yards, where the accuracy benefits lean toward the rifle! JMO. memtb
I can say without question, that even at a few feet with my heart pumping out of my chest, I can shoot a long gun better than a handgun and control it better to get another somewhat accurate shot off. BTDT.
To the thread in general, I think it is also important to state that people who work in and around bears, to include ADFG, USFWS and even a lot of local LEOs in Kodiak and such carry shotguns with slugs for bear defense. Why? Maybe it is cost or ease of use for somewhat inexperienced personal. Maybe, it is proven effective. I dunno but that is what all field going personnel that I have crossed paths with in the interior west and Alaska are issued by their agency for bear defense, myself included.
. Glad I went back to read.
