Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What Happened to 20 Gauge Ammo?

I always thought if a guy had #7 he could do very well on a lot of stuff.

Denser pattern than #7 but a little more energy than #7 1/2.

Might even work good on pigeons, IDK.

Checked out SW and a few Academy stores here recently. Zero 20 gauge and 410.

Back when I hunted pheasants a lot in PA, 7 1/2s were my favorites in an IC choked 12. Not sure why they seemed to do better than 6s, and patterning was a thing I never tried in those days, but they seemed to work very well. My brother OTOH, liked 6s or the 6&4 combo loads.

My 1oz 8s came yesterday. Oughta last me a few months since I shoot 12, 20, and occasionally .410 on clays once a week; usually two or three rounds. Almost out of .410s, and not sure I’m willing to fork over the bucks for more just yet.

Big bird hunt this weekend with Hatari. Fortunately I have plenty of 20s and 28s for the festivities..

Bruce,

When I did an intensive project on the 28-gauge around 20 years ago for Handloader magazine, I came to the conclusion that #7 shot was the its best all-around shot size for most upland hunting. Did load smaller shot for smaller birds, like doves and quail, and did use #6 on sage grouse. But hard #7s worked great on anything in between, including pheasants. In fact my favorite 28-gauge load for roosters used 7/8 ounce of 7s, which crumpled them out to 40+ yards--and yes, they were all wild birds. It;'s reason I still have a large supply of high-antimony #7s in my collection of loading components.

Found afterward, of course, that the same hard 7s worked great in larger gauges as well. In 2021 did another Handloader piece on lower-pressure loads for older 12-gauges, and killed roosters out to 50 yards dead in the air with an ounce of the same hard 7s. The reason, of course, is pattern density: The hard shot's big enough to penetrate well, but the increased density makes it more likely some will land in the right places on the bird.

It's no coincidence that in Britain the most popular shot size for driven pheasants is their #6 shot--which is the same size as American #7s.

Plenty of it here.
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/Ammunition/Shotgun-Shells/gauge/20

MD: Thanks for this. I have two flats of Eley 12 gauge 2-1/2 inch shells with No. 6 shot and wondered what the US equivalent would be. Rem

Full choke for the 40sh yard #7 pheasant kills?

Tag gun shop in New Milford Pa. had a pretty good selection of 16 and 20 gauge shells on the shelves today. Didn't notice if there were any .410's or not.

Any clue if they ship?

Check their web site. Taggunshop.

Is a reasonable to think the reason is the Brits when shooting driven Pheasants, are most often shooting incomers with the breast and vitals exposed? While they do turn and shoot some going away, the majority are incomers. In addition driven pheasants in Britain most often fall on relatively open grounds and there are multiple Dogs for the retrieve. Finding cripples is often not as much of an issue as here. Then there is the crash from 30 to 40 yards up, which is mostly rare here.

A going away wild Rooster is much different than an incomer or a crosser.

Just purchased 4 flats of 20 gauge 7.5's for practice and one flat of Bismuth 5's for hunting. Bismuth because in the course of a day you may go from a lead area to non-tox required.

battue,

I have mentioned exactly that difference in shooting angles and ranges in many of my articles, and at least one book. If I recall correctly, one of the quotes I mentioned somewhere came from a Brit who criticized Americans for "shooting pheasants right up the fundament."

But have found high-antimony #7s VERY effective in killing wild American pheasants at typical "fundament" angles and ranges. And have used them considerably in gauges from 28 to 12. When I do find shot while processing birds, it's usually under the skin on the far side of the bird.

Also have a bunch of Bismuth loads on hand, both factory and handloads, in various gauges, and tend to prefer 6s or 5s there. But as I have mentioned elsewhere, have been using Bismuth since 1996.

Did considerable experimentation recently with hard tungsten shot, in both 20 and 12-gauge, and reported on it in Handloader a couple years ago. It's extremely effective--and extremely expensive.

Might add that I've shot "driven" birds in various places here and there, including Argentina and South Africa--which including wild guinea fowl, which are twice the size of pheasants--as well as on typical pheasant drives in places such as South Dakota. Just about as many birds were taken going as coming. Have found in all of those that pattern density, especially with harder shot, has been more important than other factors.

I wish we had birds to hunt.
I bet it's been a decade since I've put a grouse up close to home.
Of course that would lead me to having a shotgun collection!

Is there a scarcity? Seems to be a lot in my cabinet

Sometime in the past you wrote a large Bird like a Pheasant will easily fill a shotgun pattern of large shot. Which made a lot of sense. Ever since I have used nothing but 5 or 6's on Pheasants. And often on the smaller stuff also. I understand the theory of filling up the pattern, but have found if I point well, few will find their way thru the swarm, and 5 or 6's are the Campfire hammer of Thor.


My Stepfather tolerated my Mothers farming roots and subsequently their little 8 acre residence had a variety of farm animals. A Pig, Rabbits, Pigmey Goats, some Pheasants, fighting Chickens from her Dads time. They were fun to watch sparing. A Peacock was in the mix along with two horses. Then 4 Guinea hens arrived and soon there were around 20. Nothing came up the driveway without a loud greeting. Often from the top of the barn ridge. Eventually there were more and they decided to branch out further down the road to another residence. Which didn't go over all that well.

The rabbits were for eating, but were allowed the run of the place. I was the one called to do the killing when they wanted a meal, but their eating didn't keep up with the mating. Which caused another problem.The Pigmey Goats eventually got confined when my Stepdad came out and they were on the roof of his car. It was a hoot to visit!!!!!

Battue,

Don't know if I ever wrote exactly what you state, "a large Bird like a Pheasant will easily fill a shotgun pattern of large shot," but did point out in my Handloader article on the 28-gauge that one reason it works so well on larger birds is they do indeed get hit by more shot than the smaller birds many people think the 28 works best on.

That article was based partly on deciding to use the 28 as long as possible during a Montana autumn--where the upland birds hunted tend to get progressively bigger and tougher later in the season, due to dove season closing, pheasant season opening and birds maturing. That was also back when sage grouse season lasted as long as the other upland seasons. When the 28 started "failing," I'd put it away and use larger gauges.

But I never did. Found it worked great on pheasants out to at least 40 yards, eventually deciding a handload of 7/8 ounce of hard 7's did as well as any other 28 load. Used an ounce load of copper-plated 6s on sage grouse, and the longest kill was 47 yards on a mature rooster. (The 7's also worked fine on all three of our "forest" grouse--ruffs, blues and the Franklin's variety of spruce grouse--as well as on Huns. But the pattern was a little thin for doves, except at the closer ranges typical earlier in the season. Generally I used 8's or even 9's then.

It was a lot of fun--and eye-opening!

That most likely was where I got it. You were also correct on TSS shot. It ups the smaller gauges into another level. However yes expensive and most likely not needed for the ranges I'm comfortable shooting.

Yep! I don't need it either, but it sure is impressive.

But was almost equally impressed by hard 7s a couple of years ago, even in 12 gauge. Was doing a Handloader article on lower-pressure handloads for older 12s. Had somehow ended up with three guns to play with, a Greener Damascus-barrel made in 1895 with 2-3/4" chambers, a Sauer sidelock hammer gun made in 1911 with 65mm (2.56") chambers, and an R. Lisle British boxlock with 2-3/4" chambers, one of those "Birmingham guns" finished by a smaller maker, with what looks like a Webley & Scott action and typical British "half" and full chokes in the 30" barrels.

Used different loads in all three, mostly Bismuth in the Greener because it was the heaviest, tightest choked gun, which I used more after the waterfowl season opened, due to also encountering ducks in my most frequent pheasant hunting area around a big reservoir. Took roosters with all three, but perhaps the most impressive kill was with the Lisle and it's full-choke barrel, using a load featuring an ounce of 7s in Federal paper shells, originally worked up for one of Eileen's light British guns to keep recoil at a tolerable level.

We were hunting a strip of standing wheat, and getting near the end when a rooster and 8-10 hens flushed toward a shelterbelt of poplars beyond the end of the wheat. The rooster got up maybe 25 yards from me, and by the time I pulled the trigger on the full choke barrel he was just entering the shelter belt--but dropped immediately and tumbled through the branches, obviously dead in the air, and the Lab grabbed him a as he hit the ground. The range, as near as I could pace it off from where he flushed to the trees, was just about 50 yards. Was very impressed both by the number of pellets in him, and their penetration--just as I had been by the same brand of 7s in the 28-gauge years ago.

But as always, more experimentation is called for!