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Why does everyone assume they are putting slugs in their shotgun? Because most everyone that has minimal knowledge of ballistics, mass, sectional density, ect. would never use buckshot! It would probably be effective at absolute “point blank range”…… but, only on a head shot. On a large bear, at any distance……Penetration will suffer greatly! memtb Uh, huh, you go expert..., shoot something at 10 yards w D0 and tell me how little penetration there is. I say carry what works for you.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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So serious question for those who've actually shot big bears.
I see many people mention only penetration when discussing bear defense with little acknowledgment of wound channel.
The quickest deaths I've observed have been from the bullets that upset the greatest volume of vital tissue. Likewise, I've observed through and through penetration with a narrow wound channel resulting in death taking much longer.
Having not dealt with a grizzly charge, I'm speculating that large wound cavity is going to stop a charge faster than two small holes and less volume.
I carry a pistol always when hunting in griz territory, even in rifle season, one of us generally carry a short .308 when bow hunting, as well.
But like every other situation, bullet choice should be optimized for the situation. I'm just not sure that means giving up a large wound channel for penetration.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.”
Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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There was a "problem" Bear(Late Fall and the fhuqker was simply hungry on the way to den) on a porch,a few blocks away. After the dust settled,there had been (17) Smoothbore rounds fired,all of which were slugs or buckshot. Hint.
Scatterguns and their fodder are Feel Good Notions,for DUMB Fhuqkers that don't shoot and/or deal with Bears. This schit is never not fhuqking HILARIOUS. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............. Maybe the dumb fugheries in yer neighborhood figgered that didn't need to aim said scattergun, either that or they are lousy shots.... 17 shots, and all complete misses! That's some funny schit, even from you. It is a HILARIOUS constant,that those the most enthralled with Smoothbores,have seen/interacted with the least number of Bruins. Hint. You Pavement Pounding Pussies are a fhuqking riot! Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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just watched the video on " we almost died " sure they made few mistakes but they will never forget that trip for that bear. i figured right away what brand and model rifle they had trouble with because i had the same brand rifle that i had trouble with when i was faced by momma grizzly and her 2 older cubs i was lucky she ran away. matter fact 3 of us had the same type rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. next day i carried old faithful my 338 Winchester pre 64 model 70 this rifle has never failed me. glad these two made it out ok with a neat story and a bear rug for the wall. thanks for posting the video,Pete53
Last edited by pete53; 03/04/23.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Campfire Tracker
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just watched the video on " we almost died " sure they made few mistakes but they will never forget that trip for that bear. a figured right away what brand and model rifle they had trouble with because i had the same brand rifle that i had trouble with when i was faced by moma grizzly and her 2 older cubs i was lucky she ran away. matter fact 3 of us had the same rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. next day i carried old faithful my 338 Winchester pre 64 model 70 this rifle has never failed me. glad these two made it out ok with a neat story and a bear rug for the wall. thanks for posting the video,Pete53 A 308, or even 30-30 carbine slung over the gal’s shoulder would have changed the situation completely. “Nobody plans to fail. Some just fail to plan.”
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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just watched the video on " we almost died " sure they made few mistakes but they will never forget that trip for that bear. a figured right away what brand and model rifle they had trouble with because i had the same brand rifle that i had trouble with when i was faced by moma grizzly and her 2 older cubs i was lucky she ran away. matter fact 3 of us had the same rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. next day i carried old faithful my 338 Winchester pre 64 model 70 this rifle has never failed me. glad these two made it out ok with a neat story and a bear rug for the wall. thanks for posting the video,Pete53 A 308, or even 30-30 carbine slung over the gal’s shoulder would have changed the situation completely. “Nobody plans to fail. Some just fail to plan.” WELL SAID , anything but a Remington 700 .
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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OP
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Why does everyone assume they are putting slugs in their shotgun? Because most everyone that has minimal knowledge of ballistics, mass, sectional density, ect. would never use buckshot! It would probably be effective at absolute “point blank range”…… but, only on a head shot. On a large bear, at any distance……Penetration will suffer greatly! memtb Uh, huh, you go expert..., shoot something at 10 yards w D0 and tell me how little penetration there is. I say carry what works for you. I totally agree with your premise….they work great at moderately close range on Whitetails, humans and smaller big game! However, unless I’m guaranteed the attack be by a cub…..I’ll pass on buckshot! A large bruin (a lot of bear to penetrate to get to vitals), thick hair, probably a thick fat layer, heavily muscled…..will severely limit the penetration of buckshot! I chose not to follow Brandon’s recommendations as to the effectiveness of a shotgun! 😂 I do however….fervently support a person’s right to carry/use whatever they desire! Though, I retain the right to question their decisions! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 03/04/23.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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" ... matter fact 3 of us had the same type rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. ... "Pete53 Pete 53, how about filling us in as to how three Remington 700s did not work up in the mountains. Just wondering. Thanks. L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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There was a "problem" Bear(Late Fall and the fhuqker was simply hungry on the way to den) on a porch,a few blocks away. After the dust settled,there had been (17) Smoothbore rounds fired,all of which were slugs or buckshot. Hint.
Scatterguns and their fodder are Feel Good Notions,for DUMB Fhuqkers that don't shoot and/or deal with Bears. This schit is never not fhuqking HILARIOUS. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............. Maybe the dumb fugheries in yer neighborhood figgered that didn't need to aim said scattergun, either that or they are lousy shots.... 17 shots, and all complete misses! That's some funny schit, even from you. It is a HILARIOUS constant,that those the most enthralled with Smoothbores,have seen/interacted with the least number of Bruins. Hint. You Pavement Pounding Pussies are a fhuqking riot! Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!................. 17 misses is whats hilarious... carry on
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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[quote=pete53]" ... matter fact 3 of us had the same type rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. ... "Pete53 Pete 53, how about filling us in as to how three Remington 700s did not work up in the mountains. Just wondering. Thanks. L.W.[/quo .... seafire hacked his accounts...thats why it sounds unbelievable......bob
Last edited by Bob_mt; 03/04/23.
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Campfire Ranger
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There was a "problem" Bear(Late Fall and the fhuqker was simply hungry on the way to den) on a porch,a few blocks away. After the dust settled,there had been (17) Smoothbore rounds fired,all of which were slugs or buckshot. Hint.
Scatterguns and their fodder are Feel Good Notions,for DUMB Fhuqkers that don't shoot and/or deal with Bears. This schit is never not fhuqking HILARIOUS. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............. Serious question Stick----how many of those 17 shots were hits in something somewhat vital, and were they a quality slug or buckshot? I'm not a shotgun junkie for bear protection but do carry one at work on the 'Slope and sometimes when fishing in griz country, but with Foster or Brennkee slugs only, either normally of Brennkee manufacture. I must admit though, I do feel a bit better when I have my .375 H&H slung instead of the shotgun. Every law enforcement or research agency that I know about in Alaska and the western US issue shotguns for bear defense, though it sounds like SE AK Forest Service may have some rifles, which is awesome...I can't imagine cost doesn't have some sort of a bearing on that, but there has to be some sort of other benefit to shotguns...ease of use for normal people, reliability in the function, something. It may or may not be effectiveness. I've dealt with a number of problem brown/griz but have never actually shot or killed one in those situations. I must say that 'warning' shots a foot from their nose at 50 yards hasn't done a damn thing...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Nobody "missed",it was just a Smoothbore Goat Fhuqk. Typical Slug/Buckshot Fairy Tale melding and "results". Hint.
Pass the Carbine and hold The Fluff. Hint.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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" ... matter fact 3 of us had the same type rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. ... "Pete53 Pete 53, how about filling us in as to how three Remington 700s did not work up in the mountains. Just wondering. Thanks. L.W. we were in the mountains N.W. corner of Yellowstone park area where its legal to hunt ,we were 10 miles up on mules snowing and raining was cold and windy 6 - 8 inches snow on ground 10-20 degrees , 9,000 ft up, we all had our leather scabbards top open, Remington 700`s were loaded safeties on lots of grizzly sign we were hunting elk. a momma grizzly came out with her 2 almost adult cubs around 60 feet away from me i was leading us up .momma grizzly took a look at me i drew my rifle . with some luck she ran away with her cubs when i yelled at her ,thinking my rifle was going to work ,after bear left i then check my rifle and found firing pin was froze up and so were the other 2 Remington 700`s was not a good situation that far from camp. next day we went back up on our mules same area same weather condition i chose to use my 338 Winchester model 70 per 64 ,the other 2 friends used their unthrawed Remington 700`s but there rifles froze up again , but my 338 Winchester 70 did not . after that day they put plastic bags on their 700`s so they did not freeze up on the ride up but i never had too with my Winchester model 70. so now if i hunt in cold nasty weather i either use my Ruger #1`s or Winchester model 70`s never again with a Remington 700 nor will my friends anymore. i have no problem for hunting in easy good weather for people to use a 700 but out in elements camp with a tent in cold weather i would never trust a Remington again that`s why i won`t use a 700 , my family we use Rugers ,Winchesters ,Weatherby mark5`s and Mausers.
Last edited by pete53; 03/04/23.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Campfire Ranger
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" ... matter fact 3 of us had the same type rifle all 700 Remingtons none worked that mourning up in the mountains. ... "Pete53 Pete 53, how about filling us in as to how three Remington 700s did not work up in the mountains. Just wondering. Thanks. L.W. we were in the mountains N.W. corner of Yellowstone park area where its legal to hunt ,we were 10 miles up on mules snowing and raining was cold and windy 6 - 8 inches snow on ground 10-20 degrees , 9,000 ft up, we all had our leather scabbards top open, Remington 700`s were loaded safeties on lots of grizzly sign we were hunting elk. a momma grizzly came out with her 2 almost adult cubs around 60 feet away from me i was leading us up .momma grizzly took a look at me i drew my rifle . with some luck she ran away with her cubs when i yelled at her ,thinking my rifle was going to work ,after bear left i then check my rifle and found firing pin was froze up and so were the other 2 Remington 700`s was not a good situation that far from camp. next day we went back up on our mules same area same weather condition i chose to use my 338 Winchester model 70 per 64 ,the other 2 friends used their unthrawed Remington 700`s but there rifles froze up again , but my 338 Winchester 70 did not . after that day they put plastic bags on their 700`s so they did not freeze up on the ride up but i never had too with my Winchester model 70. so now if i hunt in cold nasty weather i either use my Ruger #1`s or Winchester model 70`s never again with a Remington 700 nor will my friends anymore. i have no problem for hunting in easy good weather for people to use a 700 but out in elements camp with a tent in cold weather i would never trust a Remington again that`s why i won`t use a 700 , my family we use Rugers ,Winchesters ,Weatherby mark5`s and Mausers. That sounds more like a maintenance issue than a Rem 700 issue. I am guessing that Win 70 didn't have as much oil or whatever used on the pin mechanism, or a better low temp oil was used, as opposed to the Remingtons. I've had a number of Ruger, Ithaca, Winchester, Marlin and Remington trigger/firing pin systems freeze up over the years. Once with a very lively and mean spirited wolverine in a foothold. I completely degrease actions now and use a dry graphite lubricant have haven't had an issue down to -40F and that includes on a couple of different Rem 700s. Not to get into a different argument, but carrying hot is dumb enough, let alone when the rifle is in a scabbard, bouncing around on a mule and not in your immediate control.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's called "Pin The Tail On The Donkey",for very fhuqking GOOD reason(s). Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Stick,
You for sure are slippin'.
Your goat fhuqk story does not live up to your potential.
I think you make sheet up .....and you are not fully awake at said posting.
I reckon nobody got bear jammed. Did the noise wake you?
Laffin' laffin' hint -hint hooey.
Full of ballooy.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Crisco,
Your VERY Tender Feelers and Raging Estrogen Levels are hilarious...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
I've been killing problem Bears,for very nearly 40yrs and Scatterguns are for Feathers and Beaks. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I would never favor a shotgun. I'd take an adequate handgun over a shotgun
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Nobody "missed",it was just a Smoothbore Goat Fhuqk. Typical Slug/Buckshot Fairy Tale melding and "results". Hint.
Pass the Carbine and hold The Fluff. Hint............. Nobody missed...... uh huh. 17 shots and the bear walks... what a hoot... Raging hormones don't make for good marksmanship.... laffin
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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We have now established that Remingtons dont work on bears, shotguns are no good, but adequate handguns work....
Haha
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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