Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Killin power: ‘06 versus .338 Federal

The small fu cking gas stations in some rural towns I've been to with populations of 2-500 people even carry 30-06 ammo, so you might want to get off your ridiculous kick you are on. I can name many small towns like this that I've been to that have one bar and one church, and one country store, but in the case that holds ammo, there will be 30-06 ammo in it. There isn't going to be any 338 Federal in there. You don't get out much, do you?

That whoosh sound you hear was the point sailing past and missing you, again.

I've been in gas stations that sell ammo, too. I've been in road house *restaurants* that sell ammo. But you know why I didn't need to buy any of it? Because no one ever actually forgets or loses ALL of their ammo. So using that as a metric for one cartridge being more viable than another is ridiculous. It's like saying you'd only hunt with a rifle that has open sights in case you forget to bring the scope (not because the scope could fail, but because you might lose or forget it) or only boots that velcro because you might misplace the laces and not be able to find any at 3am within 100 miles of the trailhead. Maybe you wouldn't... but if we're assuming you're responsible enough to be walking around with a loaded firearm, when on earth are you losing that kind of stuff?

Overall availability? Sure. There are certain cartridges that nearly impossible to find even online or have very scarce components/dies. 338 Federal isn't one of them.

IDK, to the .277 crowd, an increase in .007 is a huge downside.....

I may not be articulating my question well. What’s the relationship between bearing surface and surface area of the rear of the bullet that predicts the higher velocity of the 200 grain 338 versus the 200 grain 308 ? Same case capacity and pressure; similar bullet construct.

Of the two options, the short action 338 might cycle a bit faster...

The larger base of the bullet allows more area for gas to push on.

Check out data for a 30-06 vs a 35 Whelen with a 220/225 grain bullet

Same for a 160 from a 7 Rem and the same weight bullet from a 338 Win. Same case in both instances, but the increased bore size and bullet base allows more room to work.

Also……with the bullet weights being similar…..the larger caliber bullet may have less bullet to barrel bearing surface (less friction) and give a bit more velocity! I may be incorrect, but in my mind the smaller diameter bullet would have a longer bearing surface. memtb

Interesting. Is that why a .308 Win puts out about 50% more energy than a .243 Win, even though there is only about a 4% difference in case capacity?

F=M x a

Yes! Your example of the 243 vs. 308 is a perfect example. For the same amount of pressure applied to two different cartridges, more FORCE is being applied to the base of the larger diameter bullet, hence greater velocity.

For the sake of the 338F vs ‘06 argument, the 338F can meet or even maybe exceed velocities of bullets from the ‘06 with bullets of the same weight. It can do that while being packaged in a lighter, handier rifle.

I wonder, how many people here have owned and used the 338F and didn’t like it? I think it’s a fantastic round that would impress people if they tried it.

Edited to say- The Kimber Montana in 338F is a true thing of beauty. It’s unfortunate they stopped making them and I am very happy that I succumbed to the 338F and Kimber Montana marketing when I did.

Jeffrey nailed the reason, but I'll put it this way, using plain old Nosler Data.

The 308 with a 110 grain bullet is listed at 3366FPS with the fastest load.

The 243 with a 105-107 grain bullet is listed at 3044FPS with the fastest load.

30-06

Not sure I’m following. Force is mass times acceleration; not area. And while energy may be germane to the original question, I’m not asking at all about energy. I’m simply looking for the relationship between bore diameter (+/- bearing surface) and velocity; given the same weight projectile and same charge.

So, if two similarly-sized and similarly-shaped cartridge cases hold the same charge – one with a smaller-diameter barrel bore and one with a larger one, and if those two charges create equal pressure initially, the pressure would impart greater force on the base of the larger-diameter bullet--initially.

That’s because:

Pressure = Force/Area (e.g. lbs/sq. inch or PSI).

So: Multiplying both sides of the equation by the area, you get:

Force = Pressure x Area. The greater the area, the greater the force—with the same pressure.

However, I have a question: It seems to me that, as the larger-diameter bullet proceeds down the larger bore, the pressure would drop faster than the same initial pressure pushing a smaller-diameter bullet down a smaller bore (if the resisting friction is the same)—because the expanding gas from the same charge would have to fill a larger space in the larger bore weakening its pressure more.

Isn’t that right, gents? Or am I missing something.

If so, is the main reason for the difference the increased friction from the larger bearing surface on the smaller bore?

If really concerned about bear attacks (I'm not), my thoughts would probably be focused more on choosing between an AR-10 and a bolt gun. That would also provide the only meaningful answer to the 338 Fed vs. 30-06 debate.

That’s where burn rates come into play and that’s why the powder that works best in the 338F with a 200 grain bullet may not be the best powder for the ‘06 with a 200 grain bullet. Black powder for instance, is an explosive and delivers all of its pressure immediately. Smokeless powders is FLAMMABLE, and delivers pressure over a longer period of time. While both rounds may be utilizing similar pressures, they apply that pressure over time differently as the bullet travels down the barrel, and not all at once like you would get with black powder.

Edited to add: I bet bearing surface does play some role in velocity, but I don’t know the calculations of bearing surface between two bullets of the same weight and different diameters. Yes, a smaller diameter bullet will have a LONGER bearing surface, but a fatter bullet will have more (lateral?) bearing surface. Remembered the area of a circle and perimeter of a circle are both functions of pi.

I love AR’s. They are fantastic tools. But I don’t hunt animals with them. One of the key characteristics for a hunting rifle, IMO, is how it feels in the hands. Which is another reason why I give the nod to the 338F over the 30/06. Don’t get me wrong, there are no flies on the ‘06. But again, carry a Kimber Montana in 338F for a year or two and get back to me. It’s a wonderful rifle in a wonderful chambering. Nowadays when I hunt with an ‘06, it’s usually a pretty low activity, fair weather hunt. That has to do more with the rifle they are packaged in than the chambering itself, but if I’m beating bush and humping mountains, I want the lighter handier package. And if I can have that package in what is essentially equally as powerful as the long action counterpart, we’ll that’s what I’ll take.
The AR has a purpose, but it’s weight, ergonomics (good for shooting and not great for carrying) and general aesthetics prevent me from hunting with them. “Life is too short to hunt with a ugly rifle.”