My only experience with recoil is with 12 & 20 gauge shotguns as well as 30-06. And I don’t like the recoil. NY state allows any center fire rifle & 20ga or larger shotguns. Based on that, my 1st thought was a 22 Hornet, but I wouldn’t trust that on a bear!
As much as I like the 223, and I own a bunch of them, there are far better choices for deer or bear. I know the argument is that with the right bullets it will do the job. But, by that token, so will a lot of other cartridges as well. There is documented evidence of a 22 rim fire killing an elephant and grizzly bears. However, that doesn’t make it a smart choice.
My only experience with recoil is with 12 & 20 gauge shotguns as well as 30-06. And I don’t like the recoil. NY state allows any center fire rifle & 20ga or larger shotguns. Based on that, my 1st thought was a 22 Hornet, but I wouldn’t trust that on a bear!
I haven't shot any bears, but I can tell you cartridges with a lot less recoil than a 30-06 are plenty for deer.
As much as I like the 223, and I own a bunch of them, there are far better choices for deer or bear. I know the argument is that with the right bullets it will do the job. But, by that token, so will a lot of other cartridges as well. There is documented evidence of a 22 rim fire killing an elephant and grizzly bears. However, that doesn’t make it a smart choice.
I’ve never shot a bear or seen a bear shot. I don’t know how you can say far better choices for deer? You might prefer other chamberings and that’s fine. I use other chamberings too. To say far better choices is just an opinion. Other cartridges make it harder to use the wrong bullets for the task at hand.
If I’ve ever shot a deer more than once with a 75gr amax I can’t remember it right off. I have either missed them had them make a little death run or bang flop. Just like every other cartridge I’ve ever used. Edit this to say I have had to make second shots with other cartridges and not saying they’re worse because of it. I just didn’t finish that thought
For the original poster I would recommend a 6 creedmoor and a suppressor.
My only experience with recoil is with 12 & 20 gauge shotguns as well as 30-06. And I don’t like the recoil. NY state allows any center fire rifle & 20ga or larger shotguns. Based on that, my 1st thought was a 22 Hornet, but I wouldn’t trust that on a bear!
I haven't shot any bears, but I can tell you cartridges with a lot less recoil than a 30-06 are plenty for deer.
A 243 takes care of business.
Yes sir. I will add the 6 creedmoor just for factory ammo options. A mid sized 6mm with a suppressor is about as soft to shoot as it gets. I know some people are totally against the suppressor idea but the OP seems to be very open minded.
You don't mention range or hunting conditions, but for deer and bear, one time proven cartridge that has surprisingly low recoil and kills medium game well is the .35 Remington.
You don't mention range or hunting conditions, but for deer and bear, one time proven cartridge that has surprisingly low recoil and kills medium game well is the .35 Remington.
My buddy just had shoulder replacement down and I reload. Right now I'm looking at a 7mm-08 down-loaded to strong 243 level recoil for ranges under 150-175 yards. Still has 7mm diameter for a little heavier bullet choice and should put enough energy downrange to stop a blackie.
An armed member in a country is a citizen, an unarmed member is a subject.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
I'd say most of it is between our ears Kaleb. Most bear killed are 150lbs. If you said you were hunting monsters, then maybe I'd want way more than I'd use for deer, but not likely.
6.5 Grendel and 6 mm ARC would be good rounds to look into. I haven't spent any time with the ARC but have spent a good bit of time shooting the Grendel recently. Even in a light weight rifle the recoil is very low.
You can reduce felt recoil of any round just by adding weight to the rifle. Reduced recoil loads as well. Don't rule out any of the standard short actions rounds if you don't mind using a heavier rifle. That said, if you want a light/handy rifle, the Grendel or ARC in a Howa mini would be tough to beat.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
Great question. Looking forward to responses.
Reduced recoil loads can be plenty accurate and bullet performance doing 2500 fps will be the same wether it was fired from a 300 Savage or a 30/06.
I've had two surgeries on my shooting shoulder. So over the past 4-5 years have used most all of the smaller cartridges. Never had any trouble with killing deer. Use a good bullet and stick it in the right spot.
I've used the .223, 22-250, 6mm TCU, 6x47 Rem, 25-45 Sharps, 25-35 Win, 6.5 Grendel, 7mm TCU, 30 Carbine, .327 Federal, 357 Mag, 350 Legend and several others.
The past year I've used a Tikka T3x lite chamber in .277 Wolverine to take several nice bucks. Also used a Henry All-Weather 45 Colt with Barnes 225 XPB.
I've sent my Tikka in to have a new barrel installed, chambered in 300 Ham'r. Time to try something different.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
I guess it depends on the bullet you have in mind. I've been present when several deer and hogs have been shot with 120-140gr 7mm bullets at muzzle velocities from 2200 to 2650 fps. Stuff bled and died just fine, without any unusually long death runs or such. A 100yd impact with such a load is likely not much different than a 250-300yd impact with the same bullet loaded to full power in a .280Rem, and most of us would say that the .280 is plenty of gun for such a shot. Next to placement, bullet choice and impact velocity matter most. I've also shot full power stuff with comparable recoil, mostly being 6mm and .257 chamberings, and I really can't say I saw a ton of difference on meat versus the reduced 7mm-08 loads. Trajectory might be a different issue, of course, should that factor in.
My boys have dropped deer, including some decent-sized bucks, in their tracks every time with .243 Hornady Lite 87gr SST loads. They produce a muzzle velocity of 2,577 fps out of their youth model rifle with a 20” barrel. Very little recoil.
I know some bears in Pennsylvania can get pretty big. For me personally, I would rather face one of those with a .308 Win or bigger. My DPMS semi-auto .308 recoils, I think, a lot less than a bolt .308. Semi-autos, especially gas-operated versions, seem to round off the recoil pressure curve by spreading out the recoil over time.
Of course, if you put a can on any standard deer/bear rifle, you’re taking away a lot of recoil too. I’ve just never needed to do that.
I know a lot of low-recoiling cartridges will work fine on bear in many circumstances, but, if I were you, I would consider getting something like a semi-auto .308 with or without a can before finally deciding to go hunt bear under-gunned.
My boys have dropped deer, including some decent-sized bucks, in their tracks every time with .243 Hornady Lite 87gr SST loads. They produce a muzzle velocity of 2,577 fps out of their youth model rifle with a 20” barrel. Very little recoil.
I know some bears in Pennsylvania can get pretty big. For me personally, I would rather face one of those with a .308 Win or bigger. My DPMS semi-auto .308 recoils, I think, a lot less than a bolt .308. Semi-autos, especially gas-operated versions, seem to round off the recoil pressure curve by spreading out the recoil over time.
Of course, if you put a can on any standard deer/bear rifle, you’re taking away a lot of recoil too. I’ve just never needed to do that.
I know a lot of low-recoiling cartridges will work fine on bear in many circumstances, but, if I were you, I would consider getting something like a semi-auto .308 with or without a can before finally deciding to go hunt bear under-gunned.
You can also put a can on a semi-auto .308 and then have even less recoil....(grin).
My brother shot this hog a few weeks back when we were hunting together. He turned to me and said, "this gun has no recoil..... like practically none". He was rather surprised. It is a heavy gun now though, with all the NV optics and stuff.
Another side of this coin, maybe you could not worry about the cartridge so much...and consider adding weight of the rifle. If you play with the variables in recoil formula a little...it soon becomes apparent that adding weight to the firearm is the single most effective way to recoil reduction.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Get a 270, put a brake on it, you will have something then. I had a 300 win mag that came with one. It was like shooting a .223
This. Or just download it. Run a 90 or 100 grain bullet. Or a .243 with a 100 and loaded down. My 9 year old boy shoot them no broblem without a brake.
The last shot I fired at game was on 12/27/19, a .35 Whelen at a cow elk. On 1/2/20 a bad vehicle wreck put an end to shooting (Dr.s orders) for a year. Then a heart attack on 2/20 sidelined me again and on 3/22 cancer. Damn Dr.s keep saying it's too soon to resume shooting anything. On the day of the vehicle accident, I was on my way to the range to do last minute checks on a 7x57 that I planned to try on an elk hunt that I was scheduled to start in two days. Idiot in a dump truck cost me that hunt and the time lag on shooting, not to mention a badly bruise heart. Doc thinks that led to the heart attack. The doc did say to shoot rifles with mild recoil so as to not disturb the stents or the port for the chemo. When the weather cleans up a bit, I'll take a few rifles to the range. Probably my .223, .243, .257 Robt., and 7x57 Mauser. Probably the 7x57 will have to be my limit for a long time and will have to decide whether to stick to wimpy factory loads or will I be able to comfortably handle the 7-08 level handloads? I'm hoping I can do the 7-08 level loads and try one more elk hunt before the passing time comes. We'll just have to see. PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
This would likely be the "easy button" considering today's rifle and ammo choices/availability. I've shot one back to back with a non-suppressed rifle and there was a sizeable difference. A medium-weight 6.5CM with a can is rather gentle.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
I guess it depends on the bullet you have in mind. I've been present when several deer and hogs have been shot with 120-140gr 7mm bullets at muzzle velocities from 2200 to 2650 fps. Stuff bled and died just fine, without any unusually long death runs or such. A 100yd impact with such a load is likely not much different than a 250-300yd impact with the same bullet loaded to full power in a .280Rem, and most of us would say that the .280 is plenty of gun for such a shot. Next to placement, bullet choice and impact velocity matter most. I've also shot full power stuff with comparable recoil, mostly being 6mm and .257 chamberings, and I really can't say I saw a ton of difference on meat versus the reduced 7mm-08 loads. Trajectory might be a different issue, of course, should that factor in.
I think if you can develop your own throttled down load, that's the best way to approach reducing the power of a larger chambering. My experience with factory-made "reduced recoil" loads has not been good. Remington's version for a 300WM literally tumbled from a Rem 700 and Hornady's version (I think it was called Hornady Lite?) was all over the place in a 7mm-08 that grouped multiple, full-power loads well. A sample size of two might not be the best way to decide, but the reduced stuff is generally scarce and thus very expensive... I'd want to know for sure how it was going to group before investing in multiple boxes.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
Great question. Looking forward to responses.
Reduced recoil loads can be plenty accurate and bullet performance doing 2500 fps will be the same wether it was fired from a 300 Savage or a 30/06.
That isn’t what I was talking about. I was thinking more along the lines of a 243 shooting a 95gr ballistic tip at 3,000+ fps or something downloaded to the same recoil. That’s why I said for killing. I understand such and such bullet going 2,500 fps is the same performance no matter what chambering.
I for one admire the man for saying he hates recoil and wants something to hunt with that doesn’t have a lot of it. Too many good low recoiling options to shoot something you don’t like. I wouldn’t care if a bunch of strangers on the internet approved or not. I bet several people that have replied on this thread kill less than 2-3 deer a year. Plenty who shoot half a dozen plus do it year after year with centerfire 22’s and 6mm’s. I wouldn’t make it any harder or more uncomfortable than it has to be.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
I guess it depends on the bullet you have in mind. I've been present when several deer and hogs have been shot with 120-140gr 7mm bullets at muzzle velocities from 2200 to 2650 fps. Stuff bled and died just fine, without any unusually long death runs or such. A 100yd impact with such a load is likely not much different than a 250-300yd impact with the same bullet loaded to full power in a .280Rem, and most of us would say that the .280 is plenty of gun for such a shot. Next to placement, bullet choice and impact velocity matter most. I've also shot full power stuff with comparable recoil, mostly being 6mm and .257 chamberings, and I really can't say I saw a ton of difference on meat versus the reduced 7mm-08 loads. Trajectory might be a different issue, of course, should that factor in.
Thank you. I was curious if loading down would have much advantage over him just shooting something like a 6 creedmoor wide open.
I agree a supressed 6.5 creedmoor(mines a 260) is pretty comfortable to shoot. The 6mm version is even less if that matters. I might suggest getting a 1-8” twist tikka 223 and a 6.5 creedmoor. Same rifle same scope. Use both and see what you prefer.
Remington shows a 1-8” for the new 223’s. You could go with a 700 if you hate a tikka.
I think if you can develop your own throttled down load, that's the best way to approach reducing the power of a larger chambering. My experience with factory-made "reduced recoil" loads has not been good. Remington's version for a 300WM literally tumbled from a Rem 700 and Hornady's version (I think it was called Hornady Lite?) was all over the place in a 7mm-08 that grouped multiple, full-power loads well. A sample size of two might not be the best way to decide, but the reduced stuff is generally scarce and thus very expensive... I'd want to know for sure how it was going to group before investing in multiple boxes.
I don't doubt your experience and observations. But the Hornady Lite .243 loads shoot under a MOA in my sons' Wby Vanguard, and the Hornady Lite 300 WM loads shoot under a MOA in my 1990 Remington 700 BDL.
I think if you can develop your own throttled down load, that's the best way to approach reducing the power of a larger chambering. My experience with factory-made "reduced recoil" loads has not been good. Remington's version for a 300WM literally tumbled from a Rem 700 and Hornady's version (I think it was called Hornady Lite?) was all over the place in a 7mm-08 that grouped multiple, full-power loads well. A sample size of two might not be the best way to decide, but the reduced stuff is generally scarce and thus very expensive... I'd want to know for sure how it was going to group before investing in multiple boxes.
I don't doubt your experience and observations. But the Hornady Lite .243 loads shoot under a MOA in my sons' Wby Vanguard, and the Hornady Lite 300 WM loads shoot under a MOA in my 1990 Remington 700 BDL.
Oh, I'm sure they work well for lots of folks. I'd just figure out a way to make sure before assuming they were my long term, lower recoil solution and investing in enough boxes to have a stable supply.
The Remingtons in the 300wm were bizarre. Major stabilization issues. But honestly, a slow 150 grain 300wm was also sort of besides the point of a 300wm!
Black Bear and the various deer in my state vary a lot in size. That, and while I find bear generally easy to kill, they get tougher if they get riled up.
While I used a .243 for a while, I came to feel more comfortable with a 6.5x55 in a '94 Carbine. A 140 grain sp at low velocity penetrates and kills very well.
I now have a Kimber Hunter in 6.5C I may start using too.
Get a 270, put a brake on it, you will have something then. I had a 300 win mag that came with one. It was like shooting a .223
Gotta go with hanco on this one
I fouled up once, jumped a pig, hit him on the run at 50 yards or so, but I don’t know which one of us was hurt the worst. I forgot about the brake, my ears rang for 3 days. I sold that Kleinguenther to Hasbeen1945. I was lucky it didn’t jack my eardrum up.
6.5 Grendel and 6 mm ARC would be good rounds to look into. I haven't spent any time with the ARC but have spent a good bit of time shooting the Grendel recently. Even in a light weight rifle the recoil is very low.
You can reduce felt recoil of any round just by adding weight to the rifle. Reduced recoil loads as well. Don't rule out any of the standard short actions rounds if you don't mind using a heavier rifle. That said, if you want a light/handy rifle, the Grendel or ARC in a Howa mini would be tough to beat.
This is How I would roll!
If the op is a reloader Id recommend a bolt action 6mm ARC Would do well IMHO. If you are not a reloader I may go another direction, due to the few factory Ammo choices currently offered in 6mm ARC. Otherwise 6.5 Grendel would do well with a wide range of factory loads & Reloaded options can offer even more great bullet choices.
A lot of felt recoil has to do with stock design and the weight of the rifle, but I agree that the 30-30 is pretty mild recoil wise and has killed tons of deer and bears.
If you hate recoil (is there really such a thing ?) it's a mental thing ..... I know a lot of pre-teen kids that enjoy shooting and never complain about recoil
I would suggest hunting in the meat section at the grocery store
No loud, bad recoiling guns to terrify you there
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
I love shooting...hate heavy recoil. Got a bad neck; more than a handful of shots through a heavy slapper and if feels like the back of my head got beaten with a sock full of quarters for a couple days. Traded off all the bigger cartridges for more modest chamberings years ago with zero regrets.
I was quite happy to finally see the shotgun slug restriction for deer here go the way of the dodo.
If you hate recoil (is there really such a thing ?) it's a mental thing ..... I know a lot of pre-teen kids that enjoy shooting and never complain about recoil
I would suggest hunting in the meat section at the grocery store
What is the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear? (Yes, I hate recoil)
A lot of it depends on range.
For longer ranges, I'd probably go with a 6.5 Creedmoor in a fairly heavy rifle.
For moderate ranges, I'd look at downloading a 308 if you handload. If not, then there's plenty of good advice here.
Up close, the 30-30 is a great cartridge for this but lever-action carbines seem to magnify recoil. A Ruger bolt gun in 357 or 44 Magnum might also work.
Okie John
Originally Posted by Brad
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
If you hate recoil (is there really such a thing ?) it's a mental thing ..... I know a lot of pre-teen kids that enjoy shooting and never complain about recoil
I would suggest hunting in the meat section at the grocery store
If you hate recoil (is there really such a thing ?) it's a mental thing ..... I know a lot of pre-teen kids that enjoy shooting and never complain about recoil
I would suggest hunting in the meat section at the grocery store
No loud, bad recoiling guns to terrify you there
Douche alert
You probably also know a lot of pre-teens who flinch, have bad form, and miss shots because someone like you handed them larger cartridges before it was a good idea, because... you know... physics is just a mental thing.
My experience with low to very low recoiling rounds......yet highly effective and efficient Deer/Antelope cartridges are:
357 Magnum in both handguns and rifles. By far my best results have been from 180 to 190 grain LBT WFN type bullets. Seen 2 bears killed with 357 mags from handguns with the above bullets and they were very effective, but I personally have not killed a bear with them. I have killed about 15 deer and antelope with 357 handguns however.
44 Magnum from both handguns and rifles. (mostly from handguns) Most bullets work well for deer and antelope. 225 to 240 HP bullets and also the 320 grain WFN bullets have done best. On elk the 320 gr LBT WFN is the best of the lot, but for black bears I see good results from bullets of 240 and up, all of which have given me 1 shot kills. In a 44 carbine the recoil is a bit stiffer then some would like however, so I'd recommend a 225 or 240 grain bullet for recoil reduction. The 44 is remarkably effective on elk moose and buffalo so I have no qualms about deer and black bear. For bears I would recommend against the use of most HP bullets however. Stick with wide flat nose solids or good soft points.
6.5 Grendel from AR15s. Fastest kills were from the 125 grain Nosler Partitions.
6.8 SPC also from AR 15s. Best kills were from Remington 100 grain SP bullets and the newer Nosler Bonded bullets. The 6.8 has been very close to a death ray for me so far. 33 kills as of a few seasons ago
In the 2 AR cartridges above I personally cannot tell the difference in recoil from them and the standard 5.56 rounds. So that's tells you what you need to know about the kick.
From bolt actions and singles shots I'd say stick to standard weight rifles instead of the super light weight models.
The 243 Winchester is a very good round if used with bonded, Partition or solid expanding bullets. No bears with it, but a lot of deer and about 15 antelope. Used with good bullets it's just fine. Also I have seen a few elk taken with 243s and again, a bullet that holds together makes it work fine.
I have used the 25-06 with bonded or Partition bullets on deer and antelope many times. I have never shot a bear with it however, but I bet it would do fine. In mid weight to heavy rifles the 25-06 is a light kicker. I have seen about 10 elk killed with them.
I have seen many animals shot with various 6.5MM and with good bullets all seem to be OK. No bears, but again I am guessing they are fine because of the results I have seen on elk. 6.5X54 M/S. 6.5X55 Swede. 6.5 Creedmoor. 260 Remington. In standard weight rifles all the above don't kick hard.
I have not seen one yet and so have no experience with the 350 Legend, but all reports I see say it's very good and kicks very little. Seeing my results with a standard 357 magnum, (even from 4 inch and 6 inch revolvers) I have no doubts the reports are true. The 350 is way out in front of the 357 so how could it be bad?
The 270 is legendary in it's ability to kill game but it's kick is not much lighter then a 308 or 30-06, so from my personal experience I try to stay no larger then the 26 calibers for recommendations for very little recoil, other then handgun shells fired in rifles.
I load my 270 down, about 2600 to 2700 with a 130 grain bullet. Soft recoil and penetrated through my deer quartered to me at 150 yards. So...two feet at least...in the neck and out the rear leg.
When my youngest son turned 12, I set up with a 243 AI and he killed a two bears and at least 3 hefty mule deer bucks with that rifle and 85 grain TSX's over his first few years hunting. All died with one shot and quickly at he hands of a novice hunter. No drama with any kills and nothing over 240 yards. I'd feel real safe with anything in the 243 range and game tough bullets.
+1 for the 357 Magnum or 357 Maximum especially in rifles. I killed my first bear with a 357 Maximum using a 270gr Accurate Mold LFP bullet at 1800fps. My son and I have both killed deer with 200gr MP Mold Penta HP bullets at 1160fps fired from the same 357 Maximum. He will hunt bears this June with his 357 Max using Barnes TSX FB bullets at 1900+ fps.
If deer only, 243. Put black bear in the discussion and 6.5CM gets my vote. 6.5CM recoil is only slightly more than 243, less than 30-30 and it kills anything a 270 kills.
For "normal" size black bear even 243 is probably enough. But black bear can vary a lot. Around 185 lbs is the norm for black bear here in GA. But some approaching 400 are killed every year and the state record is over 600.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
Lotta factors come into play. Bullet performance, placement, I believe diameter and bullet weight can matter....
Placement and velocity are undisputable keys though.
Placement is obvious.
Velocity is overlooked mostly.
A bullet is inert when stationary. Gotta be moving to be worthwhile. Faster is better, as long as construction matches speed. More damage, faster kills. And then, placement enters the room. Head, or neck shots don't count. A 22 works well there.
You question isn't specific so my answer can't be.
I'd rather use 300 Savage speed 30-06 than some little rounds as a general gun. Load a 30 down to 223 recoil and I'm probably wanting the 223.
Elmer Keith had a phrase, something about like,
I like my hunting to be before the shot, not after.
Sums up my feelings perfectly. I like to see the animal on the ground before I'm reloaded. Head,neck, or rib shot. Or, a solid red line to where it died.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Didn't read all these response so pardon me if this has been mentioned - 7mm-08 shooting 139 LRX or 140 Partition or 140 NAB. Or about any other "premium" 140 gr bullet. The 6.5 Creed/127 is another good thunk. If you really dislike recoil I'd also keep rifle weight ~ 8 lbs. I would not do a brake - but that's just me.
This could go on for days but the bottom line a suppressed rifle is the answer here. Get a rifle you like in a 6 to 6.5 chambering and carry on. Forget watered down loads brakes pistol chamberings and all that. The easy button especially if you wish to use factory ammo is a 6.5 creedmoor in a rifle you like with a appropriate suppressor and barrel length. A 16-18” barrel is fine the recoil will be managed and you still have good ballistics should you need them.
bwinters, hit a key point if it wasn't mentioned before.
All too often folks buy kids a kids gun. Usually that's a light kicking round in a light gun.
I have 3 light rifles. 243, Swede, 308. All lighter recoiling rounds. All 3 kick harder than you expect from their rounds. It's physic(s).
Fair point. My brother and I each have a heavy-ish .308win bolt gun (a Ruger Hawkeye Predator and a 700 sps-aac) that are both just pleasant to shoot from the bench. The weight and stock design are responsible.
Based on personal experience, my vote would be for the 6.5x55 SE in a rifle that wasn't really light in weight. Using that as a familiar starting point, I would feel comfortable recommending cartridges with similar statistics (e.g. the 6.5 Creedmoor). The best thing about making a decision like this is you're going to have a variety of options to choose from. Since avoiding recoil is the goal, I think increased rifle weight & the selection of a quality bullet (possibly a custom reload) would be worth considering as much as the caliber. Using a semi-auto (include AR-style rifles in larger calibers), suppressing it, installing a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock, adding a quality recoil pad, etc. might all be viable options to reduce felt recoil.
Lots of guys here in New Jersey shoot deer and black bears with Savage 220's and Remington 11-87's in 20 ga. I own both and recoil is almost non-existent. For a rifle I would agree on an AR in 308.
+1 for the 357 Magnum or 357 Maximum especially in rifles. I killed my first bear with a 357 Maximum using a 270gr Accurate Mold LFP bullet at 1800fps. My son and I have both killed deer with 200gr MP Mold Penta HP bullets at 1160fps fired from the same 357 Maximum. He will hunt bears this June with his 357 Max using Barnes TSX FB bullets at 1900+ fps.
357 is fantastic at shorter ranges. The 180 XTP at just 12-1400 is deadly.
For longer ranges, the Grendel or ARC use 30% less powder than a Creedmoor or 243, but still have plenty to kill deer and bear. Creed and 243’s are still a little overkill unless you’re really stretching the range.
The question has already been answered intelligently several dozen times, so no need to add to those. Just wanted to point out some things here never change...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I’m amazed by them. My 7 year old daughter can shoot and shoot a mid weight(howa) 6 creedmoor suppressed. We spend much more time with a 223 but she has no problem with the 6mm. Obviously it’s not a recoil monster but to a little kid it would have a little pop without the suppressor. I plan to teach my kids what recoil is rather than going back and correcting mistakes by introducing it too early. Like happened with me and every single honest friend I have. Most of it was our fault wanting to shoot the bigger guns to show we were big boys but all of us ended up with a flinch that needed sorting out.
Does anyone actually notice recoil when shooting at game? I would vote 7x57 using OP criteria or 6.5x55.
What affects shooting at game is the preparation which includes sighting in and practice. Whatever effect recoil will have is ingrained then. The subconscious won't just disappear because hair is in the sights.
The OP asked for the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear. Not whether a Creedmoor has a lot of recoil. Not whether you notice recoil when shooting at game.
The easy answers to the question is 223 if you’re comfortable (I would be), and if not, a 357 Mag rifle for short range or 300 Blk/ARC/Grendel for longer. Or you can download to those same levels with a whole host of other calibers.
The OP asked for the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear. Not whether a Creedmoor has a lot of recoil. Not whether you notice recoil when shooting at game.
The easy answers to the question is 223 if you’re comfortable (I would be), and if not, a 357 Mag rifle for short range or 300 Blk/ARC/Grendel for longer. Or you can download to those same levels with a whole host of other calibers.
Lol so you put down mentioning creedmoor recoil but mention 357 mag 300 BLK etc etc??? Makes perfect sense.
Does anyone actually notice recoil when shooting at game?
Not the point, ever. Flinching starts at the bench, and is unconsciously carried over into the field.
Right on Brad.
Yes. Extremely good point there. Comfort from solid practice helps carry over to solid shots in the field. Combine some buck fever with a well-developed flinch, as well as an improvised field rest and you're are asking for some sub-par results.
Not sure what you mean? Those calibers recoil less than the Creed, but still have the guts to kill medium game, as the OP was asking…
Originally Posted by Kaleb
Originally Posted by pka45
The OP asked for the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear. Not whether a Creedmoor has a lot of recoil. Not whether you notice recoil when shooting at game.
The easy answers to the question is 223 if you’re comfortable (I would be), and if not, a 357 Mag rifle for short range or 300 Blk/ARC/Grendel for longer. Or you can download to those same levels with a whole host of other calibers.
Lol so you put down mentioning creedmoor recoil but mention 357 mag 300 BLK etc etc??? Makes perfect sense.
I haven’t put suppressor on my 708 yet but I shoot the 120’s right at 3,000 from a 22” barrel. I’ll have it cut off some when I get it threaded. Those 120’s sure don’t leave a fella looking for anything more from what I’ve seen. I admit I have used 22’s and 6mm’s much more though.
What is the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear? (Yes, I hate recoil)
I don't bear hunt, so I can't answer that question. For the deer, I would say look at the 250 Savage and 6mm ARC. Too bad we don't live in 1936 because lots of mild cartridges worked for all sorts of game.
What is "wrong"? The notion that bench flinching doesn't tend to disappear in the field?
Adrenaline might compensate for you "noticing" recoil, but as JPro and others are noting, that doesn't mean you aren't still flinching. From what I've observed, folks who flinch on the bench actually flinch *worse* in a hunting situation if they don't have a routine they've practiced a TON. (How many new hunters tell themselves "I'm going to watch for a long time, then slowly move the rifle up, then slowly..." but in reality, they see a deer, grab the rifle, yank the trigger, flinch, and who knows how it ends up?
25+ years ago ‘absolutes’ on a certain chambering were tossed about like quoting the Bible, here in the West.
You had to use a .30 cal for bear and elk. The 7mm would be okay, but you better be shooting a 160gr bullet, because 140gr will grenade on bone. You could get away with a 243 Win for deer, but a 270 or 06 was gonna work better. And on and on…
Woah doggie, how things have changed in today’s world of hunting.
I’ve only culled a couple deer at under 200 yards with a 223 shooting a 55gr soft point. Both died without fuss, but neither got swept off their hoofs like they’d been stoned by a larger caliber.
Personally, I’m good with whatever a guy feels comfortable shooting his game animals with. If the dude understands the ballistics of his cartridge and its limitations for being used successfully in the field. Heck, why not?
I will say, I hear more guys that live and hunt in the Midwest and SE discussing the viability of the 223 for hunting medium game animals than guys out West.
I’ve done both and I would have had zero issues shooting either of my WT bucks with a 223 Rem at the distance I killed them at from a blind.
Out West - I’m more comfortable starting with a .264 bullet.
🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
What is the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear? (Yes, I hate recoil)
I don't bear hunt, so I can't answer that question. For the deer, I would say look at the 250 Savage and 6mm ARC. Too bad we don't live in 1936 because lots of mild cartridges worked for all sorts of game.
Surprised they weren't advertising the 25-35 for deer after it spent decades piling them up. (Then again, given Remington's marketing problems, maybe I'm *not* surprised!)
The question has already been answered intelligently several dozen times, so no need to add to those. Just wanted to point out some things here never change...
What good would the innernet be with it though Brad!
25+ years ago ‘absolutes’ on a certain chambering were tossed about like quoting the Bible, here in the West.
You had to use a .30 cal for bear and elk. The 7mm would be okay, but you better be shooting a 160gr bullet, because 140gr will grenade on bone. You could get away with a 243 Win for deer, but a 270 or 06 was gonna work better. And on and on…
Woah doggie, how things have changed in today’s world of hunting.
I’ve only culled a couple deer at under 200 yards with a 223 shooting a 55gr soft point. Both died without fuss, but neither got swept off their hoofs like they’d been stoned by a larger caliber.
Personally, I’m good with whatever a guy feels comfortable shooting his game animals with. If the dude understands the ballistics of his cartridge and its limitations for being used successfully in the field. Heck, why not?
I will say, I hear more guys that live and hunt in the Midwest and SE discussing the viability of the 223 for hunting medium game animals than guys out West.
I’ve done both and I would have had zero issues shooting either of my WT bucks with a 223 Rem at the distance I killed them at from a blind.
Out West - I’m more comfortable starting with a .264 bullet.
🦫
Same here for the most part. I don't tend to care what people use
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Read this whole thread. Do so with an open mind. Once you have, come back and tell me that, if legal, a .223 with a fast twist, using a 77 grain Sierra TMK isn’t exactly what the OP is looking for.
As is stated on this forum multiple times, bullets matter more than headstamps. I will also add that recoil adds to poor mechanics. Pair a great bullet with low recoil and you will get more kills. Period. A .223 starts at low recoil. A lot of posters have stated “put a brake or suppressor on XX and it will be like shooting a .223”. Why not start there?
As for my killing bona fides, I have killed literally hundreds of deer with over 40 different chamberings, as well as archery. As for bears, I only have 10 under my belt and they are split 50/50 between guns and bows.
The Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel would make a nice balance of killing power and very modest recoil.
Animals are not hard to kill... when the right bullet and bullet placement are in the right spot.
Lower MV due to a reduced powder load... but the key thing to focus on is the type of bullet you use...
Considering bears, that are 250 lbs plus:
I'd rather have a 243 or 260 Rem, loaded with 30 grains of 4198 or RL 7, with say a Barnes TTSX in 100 or 120 grain Weight, than a 30/06 with a plain ordinary 150 grain bullet...
Last bear I shot was one I stumbled upon and it freaked and charged me... I shot it at 50 yds, about 3 steps into his charge on me...It collapsed and rolled down the hill side about 50 yds or more.. went down to make sure it was dead, and give a second shot if needed, it was gasping its last...
bear only weighted 125 lbs or so... load was a 100 grain Ballistic Tip, with 30 grains of 4198, out of the Muzzle at 2600 fps, chambered in a 260 Remington.
I had a tag, they were only $10 for residents.... only because it charged me... I gave it to a hunter I'd ran into earlier, who was hunting for bear... he'd been tracking this one evidently... I let him tag it and have it...
but the bullet and the powder charged work just fine in dropping him....he expired pretty quickly...
Last couple of deer I've taken with my 6.5 Grendal in a Ruger American Predator worked just fine...
one was 140 gr Speer, pushed by 29 grains of W 748.... second one dropped to 129 SP Hornady with the same charge of W 748.. close to a 30/30 speed/ NV...but with spitzer bullet at 30/30 speeds, and flatter shooting due to being spitzers.. both bullet exited on the opposite side and pretty much chewed up the organs inside of the deer...
they would have done the same to a 250 lb bear at the same distances... both are stout bullets...
Don't have one, but a 6 ARC with a 100 grain partition interests me also...or a 95 grain partition at close to 2900 fps mv... using W 748 once again...may have to order an after market barrel for one of my rifles...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
You better call the Bullet Maker and add more punctuation. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
so Schtick... you've used 1 K Hornet to kill over 100 Brown Bears.... how many of those Brown Bears where stuffed toys, that your daughter had as a kid?
and a 1000 +Eagles? do they ' taste like chicken' ? Those seals ya just let go floating away for a snack for the seagulls?
Do ya do the Tarzan yell after each kill?
anyone ever let you in on the concept that the seals and eagles might be a protected " bird or aquatic" being?
Have ya managed to shoot AquaMan yet? your groupies in the lower 48 are waiting with held breath for your inspirational conquest... AND ALL with a 22 Hornet?
What's your total on Soviet Spy Planes, or Chinese Spy Balloons taken down over Alaskan Air Space... over Alaskan waters also counts... That's showing those Commie Bastards not to mess with PoW Island, or the rest of Alaska...
your lower 48 groupies with subscriptions must wait eagerly for their next monthly comic book.. " The Adventures of Schtick in the Alaskan Wild".. where can the rest of us sign up?
its hard to believe that such a " Tall " short guy can live so LARGE in the Last Frontier... with his trusty 22 Hornet at his side constantly.. just killing stuff...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
What is the lowest recoiling rifle to reliably harvest deer and bear? (Yes, I hate recoil)
I don’t like recoil either but I have shot a lot for over 65 yrs. My thoughts are these: Find a rifle that fits you well that is in the 7 - 7 1/2 lb range ( bare rifle) with the correct length of pull and stock measurements (drop). Lite rifles tend to produce more felt recoil. Make sure that it has, or that you can put on, a quality recoil pad like a Sims Limbsaver. It makes a ton of difference! Wear hearing protection since sensitivity to felt recoil is often a combination of reaction to both the recoil of the gun AND the loud crack. Buy that gun in .243, .260 REM, 6.5 Creedmoor or some other cartridge already mentioned that typically has lower recoil from rifles in that weight range. You can buy, and certainly reload, some cartridges in “reduced loads” if needed which should be fine at typical ranges in the NY state woods for deer and bear. As mentioned many times in this thread, shoot a load with not necessarily the heaviest bullet for caliber but the best constructed bullet like a partition or accubond if bear might be on the menu. I’d consider all of these factors together…not just the caliber and bullet. In fact, you asked the correct question by asking about “the rifle” !
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
so Schtick... you've used 1 K Hornet to kill over 100 Brown Bears.... how many of those Brown Bears where stuffed toys, that your daughter had as a kid?
and a 1000 +Eagles? do they ' taste like chicken' ? Those seals ya just let go floating away for a snack for the seagulls?
Do ya do the Tarzan yell after each kill?
anyone ever let you in on the concept that the seals and eagles might be a protected " bird or aquatic" being?
Have ya managed to shoot AquaMan yet? your groupies in the lower 48 are waiting with held breath for your inspirational conquest... AND ALL with a 22 Hornet?
What's your total on Soviet Spy Planes, or Chinese Spy Balloons taken down over Alaskan Air Space... over Alaskan waters also counts... That's showing those Commie Bastards not to mess with PoW Island, or the rest of Alaska...
your lower 48 groupies with subscriptions must wait eagerly for their next monthly comic book.. " The Adventures of Schtick in the Alaskan Wild".. where can the rest of us sign up?
its hard to believe that such a " Tall " short guy can live so LARGE in the Last Frontier... with his trusty 22 Hornet at his side constantly.. just killing stuff...
I believe that a helluva lot more than some dip$Hit having to shoot a 125lb “charging” bear at 50 yards. And then give it to another dip$hit who was “tracking” it.
"I used to be a tired hunting guide, now I'm just a re-tired hunting guide"
"No eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn" JM
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
so Schtick... you've used 1 K Hornet to kill over 100 Brown Bears.... how many of those Brown Bears where stuffed toys, that your daughter had as a kid?
and a 1000 +Eagles? do they ' taste like chicken' ? Those seals ya just let go floating away for a snack for the seagulls?
Do ya do the Tarzan yell after each kill?
anyone ever let you in on the concept that the seals and eagles might be a protected " bird or aquatic" being?
Have ya managed to shoot AquaMan yet? your groupies in the lower 48 are waiting with held breath for your inspirational conquest... AND ALL with a 22 Hornet?
What's your total on Soviet Spy Planes, or Chinese Spy Balloons taken down over Alaskan Air Space... over Alaskan waters also counts... That's showing those Commie Bastards not to mess with PoW Island, or the rest of Alaska...
your lower 48 groupies with subscriptions must wait eagerly for their next monthly comic book.. " The Adventures of Schtick in the Alaskan Wild".. where can the rest of us sign up?
its hard to believe that such a " Tall " short guy can live so LARGE in the Last Frontier... with his trusty 22 Hornet at his side constantly.. just killing stuff...
I believe that a helluva lot more than some dip$Hit having to shoot a 125lb “charging” bear at 50 yards. And then give it to another dip$hit who was “tracking” it.
sez some dip$hit from New Mexico....
Schtick... one of your groupies to the rescue, to defend his hero's honor...right on time...
somethings never change... some folks are easily impressed... evidently...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
PS and by the way,I've barely made $80K thus far this year. Hint.
I think there's a 7" RPM 223 and 8" RPM 7mm RemMag,along with a 8" Teeker 223 in this pile of Mail. I see a coupla scope boxes too. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed......... In 1923.
so Schtick...
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
Haha it sure sent him into another long winded rant though.
for your reading pleasure... to many words that overcome your attention span? you can just decide not to read it ya know..
I love when you Schtick groupies come out of the wood work...to defend his honor... it proves a point...
Haha poor old guy still can’t comprehend. I’m not coming out of the wood work at all. I’ve posted several times in the thread. I also didn’t defend anyone in anyway. I don’t care that a stranger on the internet dislikes another stranger on the internet.
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
so Schtick... you've used 1 K Hornet to kill over 100 Brown Bears.... how many of those Brown Bears where stuffed toys, that your daughter had as a kid?
and a 1000 +Eagles? do they ' taste like chicken' ? Those seals ya just let go floating away for a snack for the seagulls?
Do ya do the Tarzan yell after each kill?
anyone ever let you in on the concept that the seals and eagles might be a protected " bird or aquatic" being?
Have ya managed to shoot AquaMan yet? your groupies in the lower 48 are waiting with held breath for your inspirational conquest... AND ALL with a 22 Hornet?
What's your total on Soviet Spy Planes, or Chinese Spy Balloons taken down over Alaskan Air Space... over Alaskan waters also counts... That's showing those Commie Bastards not to mess with PoW Island, or the rest of Alaska...
your lower 48 groupies with subscriptions must wait eagerly for their next monthly comic book.. " The Adventures of Schtick in the Alaskan Wild".. where can the rest of us sign up?
its hard to believe that such a " Tall " short guy can live so LARGE in the Last Frontier... with his trusty 22 Hornet at his side constantly.. just killing stuff...
I believe that a helluva lot more than some dip$Hit having to shoot a 125lb “charging” bear at 50 yards. And then give it to another dip$hit who was “tracking” it.
sez some dip$hit from New Mexico....
Schtick... one of your groupies to the rescue, to defend his hero's honor...right on time...
somethings never change... some folks are easily impressed... evidently...
You’re right sir, I am just a dip$hit from NM. I’m changing teams. Please tell me more of your prowess and dangerous game exploits. Is that better? Please just don’t call me a groupie again.
Like John Wayne said if I can’t respect my elders, I should dang sure respect my betters. There’s a bunch of em on here, but you sir are not one of them.
"I used to be a tired hunting guide, now I'm just a re-tired hunting guide"
"No eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn" JM
Mind your own ‘Beav. You’re already on my sh|t list.
He (Seafire) said “I let him tag it”…I read that as in the other hunter tagged it, using his own (ie. not Seafire’s) tag. Maybe I am reading it wrong but that sounds shady to me.
Now drop to your knees and do what you’re good at.
223 with 77gr tmk or 75gr eld-m kills real well here insagebrush country.
ran up another 4 grains to 6br nowadays. would say recoil is more similar then different. 6br kills very well out to about 550 or so. i try to set 1900fps as the limit
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed......... In 1923.
so Schtick...
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
Haha it sure sent him into another long winded rant though.
for your reading pleasure... to many words that overcome your attention span? you can just decide not to read it ya know..
I love when you Schtick groupies come out of the wood work...to defend his honor... it proves a point...
Haha poor old guy still can’t comprehend. I’m not coming out of the wood work at all. I’ve posted several times in the thread. I also didn’t defend anyone in anyway. I don’t care that a stranger on the internet dislikes another stranger on the internet.
' Okay, that's fair... point taken... There are really few people on the campfire I don't care for..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I only have (1) K-Hornet that has killed over 100 Brown Bears,1000+ Eagles and who fhuqking knows how many Seals. Hint.
The Bounty Boys tallied 128,000 Eagles alone. In 1923,payment was $1.00 each,which equates to +$17.00 today. Hint.
Teeker 7-08's are Goat Fhuqks,due RPM. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
so Schtick... you've used 1 K Hornet to kill over 100 Brown Bears.... how many of those Brown Bears where stuffed toys, that your daughter had as a kid?
and a 1000 +Eagles? do they ' taste like chicken' ? Those seals ya just let go floating away for a snack for the seagulls?
Do ya do the Tarzan yell after each kill?
anyone ever let you in on the concept that the seals and eagles might be a protected " bird or aquatic" being?
Have ya managed to shoot AquaMan yet? your groupies in the lower 48 are waiting with held breath for your inspirational conquest... AND ALL with a 22 Hornet?
What's your total on Soviet Spy Planes, or Chinese Spy Balloons taken down over Alaskan Air Space... over Alaskan waters also counts... That's showing those Commie Bastards not to mess with PoW Island, or the rest of Alaska...
your lower 48 groupies with subscriptions must wait eagerly for their next monthly comic book.. " The Adventures of Schtick in the Alaskan Wild".. where can the rest of us sign up?
its hard to believe that such a " Tall " short guy can live so LARGE in the Last Frontier... with his trusty 22 Hornet at his side constantly.. just killing stuff...
I believe that a helluva lot more than some dip$Hit having to shoot a 125lb “charging” bear at 50 yards. And then give it to another dip$hit who was “tracking” it.
..
You’re right sir, I am just a dip$hit from NM. I’m changing teams. Please tell me more of your prowess and dangerous game exploits. Is that better? Please just don’t call me a groupie again.
Like John Wayne said if I can’t respect my elders, I should dang sure respect my betters. There’s a bunch of em on here, but you sir are not one of them.
Fair enough... I really don't need your respect, but then the way some one acts toward me, I'll mirror it right back to them. be that good or bad.. I respect anyone until they give me a reason not to.. you are the gentleman who started off with the dip$hit accolades right out the shoot.
JG Raider evidently knows you well and respects you.. and that is good enough for me... He and I are not tight friends, but I always respect his perspective, as I always read his posts when I come across them. I consider him a good guy, so I am more than happy to extend an apology.
If you don't consider me one of your betters, I have no problem with that.. evidently we don't know each other. I'm not here to be anyone's "better" any way. I'll retract the groupie accolade, and apologize if it doesn't apply.
I don't consider myself as a dangerous game hunter, with any prowess, good or bad... I don't live where I'm going to run in to anything dangerous, except the occasional bear or cougar...The bear charged, and it was evident it wasn't going to stop, so I stopped him... anyone else would have done the same... I wasn't expecting him and he wasn't evidently expecting me. End of story, along with my apology.. but I doubt you are one that has tender feelings..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I gave it to a hunter I'd ran into earlier, who was hunting for bear... he'd been tracking this one evidently... I let him tag it and have it...
Something tells me that bear was running for momma for which it mistook you, but in any event I must ask, is this legal?
Did this ‘charge’ happen in Oregon?
Bluff charge. He has a bear tag. Shoots and kills bear. Gives bear to another hunter. Legal in Oregon?
My understanding, if he tagged the bear, then gave the bear away. Yes.
🦫
T: this right here...and it wasn't running for momma. evidently he got kicked up by the other hunter, that I gave the bear to. I was assuming I'd see a buck coming up the hill, NOT a bear... he smelled me after passing a big pine, its hair on its neck went up and it charged. no false charge etc.. He took 3 steps, I pulled the trigger... anyone else would have done the same thing... over getting their ass chewed up...
Its legal on what I did... I wasn't planning to just abandon the dead bear... the other hunter was after him, so he was more than happy to take it.. he left with my tag. He said his Uncle was a F&G officer anyway... I did what I knew as the correct thing to do.. case closed...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I gave it to a hunter I'd ran into earlier, who was hunting for bear... he'd been tracking this one evidently... I let him tag it and have it...
Something tells me that bear was running for momma for which it mistook you, but in any event I must ask, is this legal?
Did this ‘charge’ happen in Oregon?
Bluff charge. He has a bear tag. Shoots and kills bear. Gives bear to another hunter. Legal in Oregon?
My understanding, if he tagged the bear, then gave the bear away. Yes.
🦫
T: this right here...and it wasn't running for momma. evidently he got kicked up by the other hunter, that I gave the bear to. I was assuming I'd see a buck coming up the hill, NOT a bear... he smelled me after passing a big pine, its hair on its neck went up and it charged. no false charge etc.. He took 3 steps, I pulled the trigger... anyone else would have done the same thing... over getting their ass chewed up...
Its legal on what I did... I wasn't planning to just abandon the dead bear... the other hunter was after him, so he was more than happy to take it.. he left with my tag. He said his Uncle was a F&G officer anyway... I did what I knew as the correct thing to do.. case closed...
You know what? You’re absolutely right. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what you saw. And if you had told me that story face to face I would have nodded and listened no matter what I thought. Funny thing about these computers.
Like Kaleb said I don’t care if one stranger doesn’t like another stranger and I couldn’t care less what someone else kills.
"I used to be a tired hunting guide, now I'm just a re-tired hunting guide"
"No eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn" JM
I shoot a Merkel K3 Extreme in 30-06. With scope it weighs about 5 3/4lbs. For a Wyoming elk hunt in ‘21, I sighted it in using Federal 180 grain Accubonds and to be honest, they gave me a pretty good thumping every time I pulled the trigger. After that hunt, I wanted less recoil so shooting that little rifle would be fun, so I tried a box of Hornady Custom Lite 125 gr and was really surprised in the recoil. It was like shooting a .243! This past November, I shot a nice 8pt WV whitetail at about 100yds and that 125 grain bullet sure made a mess of his boiler room. Total devastation! I plan to make these reduced recoil bullets as my “go to” for all my future deer hunts. As for black bear, in my opinion, they would work just fine.
Seafire, what caliber, was used, since this is suggesting caliber of gun for the OP. Many here suggesting .223 and such. They kill but not my first choice, for deer or bear!
Does anyone actually notice recoil when shooting at game? I would vote 7x57 using OP criteria or 6.5x55.
The subconscious won't just disappear because hair is in the sights.
Wrong!
Ever see flinch in a shotgun shooter? It's not developed at the bench, but in shooting game and dynamic targets.
Adrenaline doesn't stop it. You can't consciencely stop it.
Funny as hell to see. An excellent shooter, decades of experience, doesn't miss much, swinging on a target, whole body jerking, sometimes one foot off the ground in the struggle.
Just to pull the F'ng trigger.
His mind has told his finger to pull, his body is screaming, (DON'T! IT'S GONNA HURT, AGAIN!)
Rifle flinch is not as noticeable, but the mechanisms are the same.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Seafire, what caliber, was used, since this is suggesting caliber of gun for the OP. Many here suggesting .223 and such. They kill but not my first choice, for deer or bear!
If it matters the caliber I was carrying with me was a 260 Remington on a Ruger 77 Mk2 platform...
Load was handloaded... 100 grain Ballistic Tip, 30 grains of IMR 4198...
A lot of local hunting where the shots are going to be what I call 30/30 ranges, 30 grains of 4198 is my standard charge...
whether it is a 243, up to a 30/06.. and pretty much everything in between... its a 30/30 load, and works just fine in a lot of rifles... recoil is pretty low.. I've loaded it a lot for Boy Scouts from our troop for 15 years or more.. 12 yr olds can handle it just fine.. regardless of caliber.. MV per caliber varies from 2200 fps to 2500 fps... Lighter bullets in a caliber work just fine for deer.
Zeroed 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, it will be dead on at 200 yds, and 3.5 inches low at about 240 yds, with a spitzer bullet... Based the concept on an antelope is 14 inches high from backbone to breast bone... cut that in half and Its planned for a 7 inch window of opportunity...
hope that answers your question.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
As I was drinking coffee this morning and surfing on my computer, a video appeared in my YouTube feed that discussed low recoil deer cartridges. Since I had replied to this thread earlier, I decided to watch it to see what this particular Africa-hunting vlogger had to say about the topic. As with anything involving subjective opinions, various decisions were made about measurement criteria (e.g. the round had to have a certain minimum speed to 500 yards, recoil speed in fps was given more weight than recoil energy in ft⋅lb, the Hornady H.I.T.S. formula, etc.). I would be stunned if everyone agreed with these choices. But as a person who likes math & quantifiable measurements when comparing things, I was curious to see how the final results aligned with my own opinions & biases.
For deer the results were (in descending order from #1): 6.5 Creedmoor .260 Remington 7x57mm Mauser 6.5-284 Norma 7mm-08 6.5 PRC .270 Winchester .264 Winchester Magnum .280 Remington .280 AI
This particular video discussed elk as the 2nd animal instead of bear, but here are the results anyway: 6.5 PRC .280 Remington .280 AI 6.5 Weatherby RPM 6.8 Western 7mm SAUM .30-06 Springfield .270 WSM 7mm WSM 7mm Rem Mag
As someone who crunches a lot of numbers in my work, I've always been fond of the quote “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.” by Benjamin Disraeli. Whenever you're looking at statistics it's always important to know who has their thumb on the scale and how that skews the results. For example, I think I could reload my earlier suggested 6.5x55 SE to match the output of the 6.5CM winner to get it to appear on the list. I'm also curious why #6, 9 & 10 from the deer list made the elk list but #7 & 8 did not. Why the gap? So there is definitely valid arguments that this list isn't definitive. It's simply another piece of info to integrate into the decision-making process or discard as you see fit.
With the new bullet tecnology, I would feel very comfortable with a .243 and a good mono-metal bullet on deer or bear. Maybe not a brown or grizzly but a black bear for sure. I have the same problem with recoil now that I was gifted with a pacemaker. It's not that recoil bothers me so much, it's just that a high recoiling gun might turn my lights off!
Just refer to Cast Bullet load data, but using Jacketed Bullets, which are waaaay below SAAMI Specs, so there is NO Real Danger...
I load stuff for young scouts, or supervise them loading their own ( with Dad present), boys down to 11 years old.
20 to 25 to 30 grains of 4198 or RL 7.. about any kid that age can handle those... to often including mom.
One friend's wife wanted something to shoot deer in her garden patch on their 5 acres, and wanted to use the 30/06 inherited from her deceased dad....shots would be off the porch.. 100 to 125 yds or less....
Set her up with a load of 10 grains of Unique and a 110 grain RN or SP. She's been harvesting a deer out of the front yard in rural Oregon, for over a dozen years now... a 125 grain Ballistic tip works well also in that application... 15 grains of Blue Dot or Alliant Steel works pretty darn well also...in anything from a 22.250 or 243 to 30/06 or 35 Remington...etc.
Last scout I helped last year took a Blacktail at about 150 yds, out of a 6.5 Grendal with a 16 to 18 inch barrel in a Ruger American... Load was like 10 grains of Unique, and a 100 grain Sierra HP.... Hunted with Dad and an older brother.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Shotguns & a light 30-06 with heavy loads can be unpleasant to shoot and if you’re thinking about kick you aren’t shooting as accurately as you can.
Plenty of good suggestions so far pick any cartridge 7mm-08 on down to 243 use a light for caliber Barnes TTSX or similar bullet and a heavy rifle with a good recoil pad that fits you well. Wear the good electronic hearing protection muffs that allow you to hear conversations but shut down on loud noise add plugs underneath for practice.
I like the Howa & Weatherby vanguards with at least a 24” barrel add a recoil reducer in the stock & a muzzle brake if that combination is still bothering you.
During practice sessions mix in a 22lr & focus on good technique and smooth trigger pull - shoot 10 22’s for every 3 center fire loads. Get off the bench & shoot off your knees a pack or better yet a Harris bipod attached to your rifle that adds weight & stability.
After your rifle is set up & you have practiced with it & alternating 22’s great stock fit & excellent hearing protection you will have forgotten to worry about recoil & your shooting will improve significantly, the monolithic copper bullets perform above their weight on deer & will break heavy bones on a bear very nicely.
I haven't read all of the responses but 223 is the smallest I would use and in fact am using due to physical constraints. Federal Premium ammunition loaded with 60 grain Nosler Partition bullets will do the job. My 1 in 12 twist S&W 1500 (Howa) stabilizes them just fine. Most newer 223 guns will be at least 1 in 9 twist which can stabilize even heavier bullets.
With the number of good muzzle breaks and suppressors on the market today, you could use about any thing that is non magnum and probably a few of them.I had break in stalled on my .06 even before I had my shoulder replacement It isa little bit more than a .243 now.
Last edited by saddlesore; 04/05/23.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
If you don't mind building and also reload, can I interest you in a 7TCU? Loaded with 120 grain Nosler BTs I know for a fact it will hammer deer out to 300 yards, and if it does that for deer, it will do the same for black bears. I haven't had the occasion to shoot a BB with mine yet because for the past few years, I have had my bow in hand when the bears come through, but I am planning a dedicated bear hunt that will be over bait, and I can pretty much guarantee this rifle will be in hand for one or both of those bears.
243 with a nice premium will do. 95 or 100 grain partition, TTSX, Swift, Hammer, Northfork etc. Again for me.......
Maybe not for you. Maybe not for me either? How do you argue it? I’ve shot enough deer to know a 223 works perfectly for them. Have you shot a lot of deer or bear with a 223 with bad results?
If you don't mind building and also reload, can I interest you in a 7TCU? Loaded with 120 grain Nosler BTs I know for a fact it will hammer deer out to 300 yards, and if it does that for deer, it will do the same for black bears. I haven't had the occasion to shoot a BB with mine yet because for the past few years, I have had my bow in hand when the bears come through, but I am planning a dedicated bear hunt that will be over bait, and I can pretty much guarantee this rifle will be in hand for one or both of those bears.
That is a very cool rifle and interesting cartridge. I can say the say thing and farther on distance with a 223. I haven’t used it yet but the 6 arc seems to be a easy option too.
If you don't mind building and also reload, can I interest you in a 7TCU? Loaded with 120 grain Nosler BTs I know for a fact it will hammer deer out to 300 yards, and if it does that for deer, it will do the same for black bears. I haven't had the occasion to shoot a BB with mine yet because for the past few years, I have had my bow in hand when the bears come through, but I am planning a dedicated bear hunt that will be over bait, and I can pretty much guarantee this rifle will be in hand for one or both of those bears.
I too have a 7TCU I built on a 700 back when I was still gunsmithing. It is a lot of killing in a low recoil package for sure. But I haven’t really seen any difference in killing power over a 223 with 77s. They both work great. I built mine as an experiment really, had an action lying around and an almost free K&P 7mm blank. The 120Btips work great, the 120 Sierra, the 120 Hornady HP, and the 110 Speer TNTs do too. BC sucks on all of them but I make do. Were I to live in some state with stupid caliber restrictions I’d probably pick the TCU for my knocking around rifle more often. I haven’t shot any bears with my TCU but I’ve shot enough with other stuff and enough big pigs with the TCU to know that it’ll work.
I had a 7TCU in a Rem Model 7 and loved it. It launched a 140 gr SGK at 2400 fps, a good 200 yard game getter with no recoil.
I'm right-handed and have had three shoulder surgeries.
As for light recoil for deer and bear, I'd have to use something in the 6.5 caliber, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoore, 6.5x55, etc. 6.5 mm caliber gives you a better choice of bullet weights vs 6mm/.243 for larger game without a dramatic increase of recoil.
I read the whole thread and understood some of it. Being more of a bird hunter, and more of a rifle shooter...I would recommend.
If you're seriously into hunting...a full size model 70 in 7mm08 - it's a rifle combo that you can use all of your life. It's not considered a 'kids rifle' and it will not kick much if any depending upon the load.
If you're more into 'shooting' and want something just in case you get the opportunity to go hunting...then I'd recommend a model 92 style lever action or ruger model 77 in 357, 44 mag or 45 colt. The 357 would be easier on the wallet...because some of them can shoot 38 special without issue.
If you're not really sure what you want to hunt and want to be able to shoot deer or bear at sometime, then a shotgun may be the ticket...because you get very light target loads to practice with with the options of slugs form big game. It doesn't need a scope inside of 100 yards with slugs. You could get a 12 gauge or 20 gauge - you're choice - just make sure that you aren't getting an ultralight shotgun and you'll be ok.
If you really know that you want to hunt and travel to hunt...find a local mentor, get a 30'06 (in a model 70 - just to spark 24 hour campfire argument on rilfe choices), start reloading for the 30'06 with like a rockchucker kit...you will have one rifle that you can reload from mild to wild and kill anything in North America.
I too have a 7TCU I built on a 700 back when I was still gunsmithing. It is a lot of killing in a low recoil package for sure. But I haven’t really seen any difference in killing power over a 223 with 77s. They both work great. I built mine as an experiment really, had an action lying around and an almost free K&P 7mm blank. The 120Btips work great, the 120 Sierra, the 120 Hornady HP, and the 110 Speer TNTs do too. BC sucks on all of them but I make do. Were I to live in some state with stupid caliber restrictions I’d probably pick the TCU for my knocking around rifle more often. I haven’t shot any bears with my TCU but I’ve shot enough with other stuff and enough big pigs with the TCU to know that it’ll work.
The state that I hunt the most just recently got rid of their restriction of having to use a .24 caliber or greater bullet in centerfire rifles. I will be building a fast twist .223AI as soon as I get done building my medium bore rifle. I realize I don't gain much over the regular .223, but having the bolt gun be an AI version will ensure that I don't get my brass mixed up.
Subject that has not seen much discussion here is bullet weight & construction & its impact on recoil & lethality. Lighter bullets will recoil less though in the case of lead or cup & core bullets will generally offer less penetration & Ill argue less reliable lethality. Bonded bullets will hold together better than most & in turn penetrate better than most cup & core bullets & generally offer more reliable lethality.
In the last two decades I have experimented with all copper bullets. The all copper bullets are less dense & in turn weigh less than a cup 7 core bullet of the same length. Early all copper bullets were constructed in a fashion that insured near 100 percent weight retention. with that weight retention came great penetration & reliable lethality though perhaps not the quickest lethality across the board. Generally these copper bullets do not perform well at lower velocity.
Then a few manufacturers started offering fracturing all copper bullets. The fracturing copper bullets would shed sharp petals that gives a bit larger wound channel. A substantial shank of the bullet would remain in tact & usually that shank would fully penetrate. Last fall I opted to give a frangible all copper bullet a try in the bolt action 6mm ARC. I went with a 87 grain Absolute Hammer. Terminal performance was as good as ever on 2, large bodied white tail deer. both deer were cleanly killed with 1 shot.
Again shot placement with any caliber is of first & foremost importance.
I would be very confident on the well constructed, all copper bullets from this rifle on Deer or large Black Bear. The Lighter bullet weight does result in less recoil. Unfortunately we see relatively few factory all copper loaded ammo offerings. Expect this to improve in time.
"I don't like recoil either. It gives me headaches. I avoid further damage to my brain by shooting lower recoiling rifles and shotguns."
The late Jack O'Connor once said something to the effect that some people may have had their brains scrambled from too much shooting of hard kicking rifle." Not the exact words but that was the general meaning. he opined they might be getting a mild concussion from the recoil. I think he might be right.
One poster on this thread said, "I don't like recoil either. It gives me headaches." I guess it all depends on the cartridge and I think recoil velocity. I can shoot my Ruger #1 .375 H&H fairly comfortably but my Winchester M70 Stainless Classic .338 Win. mag. hits my shoulder like a sledge hammer and my head snaps back like a cracked whip. I sometimes hear a clicking noise and have an almost instant headache. I've just about retired that rifle. PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
I put a thompson center compass 6.5 cm in a boyds at-one thumb hole adjustable length of pull stock with a muzzle break. It has less recoil than my .22 rifle however make sure you have ear protection. My kids love it they have been using it since they were 6 and 8 years old.
My daughter loved shooting my .30-06 with Remington Managed Recoil ammo. Killed a few deer with it and it always performed perfectly. All were under 150 yards. It shot 3/4" at 100 yards in that BLR all day. Grandsons will be using my Ruger Compact American with the .308 version. I'll be using it too once it's sighted in for them.
Introduced my neighbor to the Remington MR .30-06 ammo and he loves it in his lightweight M70. I shot a 5 shot 1/2" group with that combo.
Just a "time out" for qualifying "perceived recoil". Stock ergonomics and for some 'elder' body parts which may be more sensitive to discomfort. For me, short length of stock pull, ie "cozying up with the rifle, almost guaranteed to feel more effect! Just my quick take! Best! John
243 with a high quality projectile. muzzle brake or a suppressor will make it real soft shooting.
+1. Also consider a semi-auto. My Browning BAR semi-auto in .243 has noticeably less felt recoil than my ,243 BLR levergun shooting the exact same load.
Try a 6 Creedmoor. My son shot my fieldcraft when he was 10. He hates recoil but did ok with the 6 creed. The stock was too long for him so I put together some other options for him. He mostly used a howa mini in 6.5 grendel.
Regarding recoil. Watch these two boys handle 375’s. Most of it is between your ears.
Those kids handled their rifles well. I need to get my kids out in the field more often. When I was little I had the luxury of having lots of rabbits to practice shooting from field positions. We just don't have many rabbits anymore.
Having recently moved to Florida, I am amazed how many people use a .22-250 for whitetails. Of course the Whitetails are much smaller down here. I thought it was marginal but the 3 of them I have seen taken did not take a step. Maybe something to do with the velocity and the shock. They all were using standard 50-55 grain loads. I was amazed at the performance. Put it in a robust stock, get a good recoil pad and you won't feel a thing.
243 with a high quality projectile. muzzle brake or a suppressor will make it real soft shooting.
+1. Also consider a semi-auto. My Browning BAR semi-auto in .243 has noticeably less felt recoil than my ,243 BLR levergun shooting the exact same load.
That has got to be sweet, If I find one of those or a 25-06 it is coming home with me.
I also met someone who claimed he was only using his 32-20 lever for deer hunting. He wanted to put the challenge back in it. Stalking to make sure his shots were less than 75 yards etc. He did claim he was sourcing older ammo that was loaded much hotter. Said because of the pistols that the factory loads had been reduced in power.
My only experience with recoil is with 12 & 20 gauge shotguns as well as 30-06. And I don’t like the recoil. NY state allows any center fire rifle & 20ga or larger shotguns. Based on that, my 1st thought was a 22 Hornet, but I wouldn’t trust that on a bear!
yep, he might take it away from you and stick it up your kister
I've an aged Winny Hornet,that's killed over 100 Brownies. Hint..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It depends a lot on how far you're shooting. If you're only shooting out to 150 yards or so, get a .44 magnum rifle. If you want to go to 200 yards, a .350 legend would probably be pretty good. Another candidate for 150 to 200 yards would be a 7.62 x 39, especially in a Ruger Ranch rifle. I'm shooting steel cased 154 grain spire points into an inch and a half at 100 yards, and I think that would be fine for deer or bear within 200 yards.
If you want to go further than that, then you'd have to explore some of the stuff the other posters mentioned (like a .243 or a loaded back 7-08). But I don't think you're gonna get past 300 yards for deer and black bear and still have something that most people would consider to have low recoil.
“To give anything less than the best is to sacrifice the gift.” -Steve Prefontaine
Bullets matter wayyyyyyy more than headstamps and everything you cite,sucks ass,due same. Hint.
Just sayin'.
Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Ol liar Larry, with all this $$$, 200 weeks of vacation, I’d think you’d bow hunt, or musket hunt. Why shoot 2000 yards with 8 months of buck season? Don’t forget to “call” one in while you’re lying and trying to be relevant!! Haha
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
That’s a couple dump truck loads of ass shot bucks and “rodeos” for the elite trying to relevant draw tag faags!! 👊🏻😘
Actually will probably last my grandsons life. Haha
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Brokedick Hurt Feeler Reports and WELL founded Insecurities,are never not funnier than fhuqk. Hint.
I'm barely a week into a month vacation for The Spring Fling and won't hit the first 100 fish until Thursday afternoon or Friday morning. Hint.
Fortunately for you,emoji's are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Liar Larry, not even "YOU" can eat that many fish!!! Remember, frozen is never fresh!! 😂✊🖕😎
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
For conversation, lets see if you can hold 3 of those boxes in your hand.😆😀😁😂✊🖕😎
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I've an aged Winny Hornet,that's killed over 100 Brownies. Hint..............
That was just b.s. the owner of that rifle (the so called "sourdough") told you to sell it to you. And you were stupid enough to believe him!
It's alaska, everything is dumber in Alaska😂
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain't it a hoot,that which is "INCREDIBLE!" to you,is simply called "Tuesday" here...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Cheer up,I've not bought a new rifle,since today. Hint.
You gals keep living" vicariously,despite it being your only "move". Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Honest question with no agenda when I ask this. I wonder what is better for killing a lesser recoiling rifle running on all 8 cylinders or a larger chambering throttled down?
I've done some testing with both and the smaller cartridge ran at speed always did noticably better for me. All of my comparison was between the 270 and 223 on deer and I was taking behind the shoulder lung shots for what that's worth. Several times the 270 required a second shot and the 223 has always been one and done.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
What State do you "live" in and what's Bag Limit on their Large Game...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Which projectiles are you "citing" in .277" and .224"?!? Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I shoot a "few" Custom Rifles in said bore size and often on the same day. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Is a 7-08 with 140 grain bullets really that much different from a .308 with 150s?
Why not get a .308 sporter weight rifle and put a steel floor plate on it? 130 TTSX probably won’t kick much either. The Win 70 Super Grade in .308 Win might do it. 6.5 CM would be even less recoil but the barrel life might not be as good.
My daughter loved shooting my .30-06 with Remington Managed Recoil ammo. Killed a few deer with it and it always performed perfectly. All were under 150 yards. It shot 3/4" at 100 yards in that BLR all day. Grandsons will be using my Ruger Compact American with the .308 version. I'll be using it too once it's sighted in for them.
Introduced my neighbor to the Remington MR .30-06 ammo and he loves it in his lightweight M70. I shot a 5 shot 1/2" group with that combo.
If anyone reloads and wants to duplicate that Managed Recoil ammo from Remington. It is 36 grains of IMR 4198, with a 125 grain bullet....disassembling several and weighing the charge of powder and chronograph the results told me that. If not exactly 4198, it can be duplicated with 36 grains of 4198.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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