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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,931
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,931 |
Perfect for me, is my 9.3x57 Husqvarna. 20" barrel, express sights & 232gr bullet at 2250 fps. For close up stalking, it's perfect. I could slum this one!
Arcus Venator
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,952
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,952 |
I forgot I owned that book. IIRC, it was a good read. Will have to read that again.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,227
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,227 |
I've come to think of Francis Sells as being the west coast version of Larry Koller.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,166 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,166 Likes: 13 |
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,227
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,227 |
Bearrr264 had an extensive correspondence with him back in the mid-1980s regarding his 257 Tomcat wildcat cartridge in the Marlin 336. I read some of his letters to Dave and they all made good points.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,840 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,840 Likes: 9 |
This is my version of a lightweight, light-recoiling rifle for an old man. Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel in a Pendleton stock with a Trijicon Credo HX 1-6. Need to talk to Wayne York about a Mannlicher version…..
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 773
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 773 |
If 'm walking the thick stuff I got a first gen Ruger .44 Carbine shooting 240 gr JSP at a bit over 1800 fps. Short, fast , light , and accurate , nothing else needed.
Last edited by EddieSouthgate; 03/27/23.
Grumpy old man with a gun.....Do not touch . Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Don't bother my monument and I'll leave yours alone.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,339 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,339 Likes: 6 |
A long time favorite of mine is this 20.5" barreled Model 70 9.3x62, which works just as well on a buck 250 yards across a muskeg as it does on a brown bear at 5 yards. With 286 gr partitions any angle is a good angle, and they don't wreck meat badly. I switch back and forth between the Talley peep and a scope. Last year I discovered the Trijicob Accupoint 1-4, which has proven to be my best woods scope by far. There's a beauty, right there. I have another, similar setup on an old 721 action. 9.3x62 I wish it had a straighter comb, but it isn't a deal breaker as it sits & the recoil impulse rolls it quite nicely back & up. Nice rifle 721. It would look good with an ebony forend tip.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 864
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 864 |
My close range thumper is a 7600 in 35Whelen shooting 225 SGK at 2725fps. I had a 7400 carbine in the same but felt the longer barrel swung better. It’s topped with a Zeiss DL 2x8 with illumination. Bench warmers for close in duty are a Mini-30 and LaRue PredatAR in .308.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,425
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,425 |
To me the M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer is the ultimate. In fact I found a dandy one a couple days ago and like a fool walked away. I shall correct that on Monday. Thanks for the impetus.
I've owned a couple and regret letting them go. Time to correct that. Been doing a lot of that of late. You've forgotten more about the 1903 MS than I will ever know...but I did discover something regarding the bore dimension discrepancies. A lot of guys, including myself, tried .266 ish Carcano dimensioned bullets (usually without much improvement or joy). I gave up and used some Nosler Partitions, got better results but not quite what I had hoped. A friend gave me a bag of Privi Partizan 156 semi round noses, the most unlikely charge of 39 gr of the much unloved H380 in Norma cases. Bingo, a 3 moa rifle shrinks to about 1.3, at a very respectable 2,340 fps. It's worth a try if you are disappointed in the results of more traditional load recipes. I remember reading a Ken Waters article ( "Pet Loads") about the 6.5x54 M-S 1903. Accuracy wasn't great with great with "normally available" jacketed bullets which had 0.266" diameter (3 moa?) Waters slugged his 1903 M-S test rifle, and got a groove diameter of 0.268" ( 0 .002" larger than anticipated) . He order some 160 grain round nose jacketed bullets that were 0.268" diameter (Barnes original? ). His accuracy improved immediately to - I believe- ~1.5 inches at 100 yards. fwiw.
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 390
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 390 |
Great thread with some nice pictures. I always love it when GW posts! I've shot deer in the thick stuff with a few different rifles - mostly a 7600 carbine in 30 06, though. I think, the most important considerations are stock fit, type of sight/scope and practice. You can make most rifles work well if when you see that deer and throw the gun to your shoulder it is as if the post or crosshair is just suddenly where it needs to be with no break in the continuity of your concentration on that vital zone. It's more of an upland bird kind of thing. Weight up front is probably nice for settling the gun but is balanced against the speed of a lighter barrel (do you like 26" or 28" barrels for grouse?). To my mind what makes Sell's gun a brush gun is that very cool aperture sight. I never heard of that one. Nice big ghost ring - perfect. I wonder what kind of post he used.
"One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha." - Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 390
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 390 |
Francis Sell probably had a Cascade Snap Shooter receiver sight on his rifle. Sell had a hand in the development of the Snap Shooter and wrote of the sight in several articles including the Handloader September 1982 article on the .25-35 Tomcat. Sell also had the sight on his Husqvarna chambered for the .30 Short Ackley Magnum. Sell wrote about the rifle and cartridge in the 1961 Gun Digest article: The 10% Rifle. Francis Sell was an interesting and well rounded man. He was a genuine Gun Crank and knowledgeable about firearms and cartridges. I formed a lot of my opinions about small game hunting cartridges and rifles from Sell and Vernon Megee. In the 1960’s I had my nose buried in the Arms and The Man and the early American Rifleman magazines. Sell had articles in all of the magazines and you had to hunt for them. This was the days of iron sights and low powered scopes. Pre Red Mist. Here is a picture of Sell in the July 1958 issue of Guns with his Husqvarna. I was disappointed it was not a Model 64 or 71. Cascade Snap Shooter on Marlin Cascade Snap Shooter on Franscis Sell My Favorite Gun Well there it is - "Square gold bead" thanks william iorg. I've never heard of that either, a square bead. Sell was definitely a loony. I wonder why a square bead. Now I'll be thinking about that all night.
"One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha." - Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
I've found that my M 70 fwt in 280 works just as well at spitting distance as it does at 400 yds.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Perfect for me, is my 9.3x57 Husqvarna. 20" barrel, express sights & 232gr bullet at 2250 fps. For close up stalking, it's perfect. I could slum this one! Screw that, I could abscond with it when he looks the other way. Nice rifle.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,109
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,109 |
Well there it is - "Square gold bead" thanks william iorg. I've never heard of that either, a square bead. Sell was definitely a loony. I wonder why a square bead. Now I'll be thinking about that all night. Lots to be said for a fat square Sourdough gold front sight. Think about it - why do all handgun sights, target/hunting/self defense/etc., present a fat square post front sight to the eye, when once upon a time such front sights on target pistols and a lot of utility handguns were round beads?
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 812 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 812 Likes: 1 |
Yup. Pistol or rifle, square contributes more to accuracy potential than round and gives up nothing in speed. Personal choice aside of course.
Last edited by Fury01; 03/27/23.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
obviously nothing long and heavy.
Beyond that the sky is the limit and what works for you is what works for you.
I don't put much faith in others choices. They aren't me. I"m not them.
Use what makes you happy.
Up close low power optics with large eye box and field of view. That way you can shoot optics like irons basically yet you have a bit of X to thread a bullet, see stuff that irons and eyes don't allow you to see and so on.
There is no brush busting caliber. The ONLY way you get DRT 100% of the time is with CNS shots. So that tosses out caliber issues of this or that is better.
We have always preferred exit wounds. So we will pick the right projectile. We prefer least amount of meat damage, same thing there, the right projectile.
How you deliver it is totally up to you.
Frankly if I was talking 30 yards and in I'd find almost no reason to ever carry anything other than one of the Glock 20s in the pile. And with RMR those are good with us on deer to 75 pretty easy. That doesn't mean its for anyone else, it simply would be the easy choice for us. Around the house the go to for 300 yards and in has been for many years the AR15. light. Accurate. Totally reliable. Plenty big in 223. quick follow up shots on pigs or coyotes or 2 legged if need be.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 431 Likes: 1
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 431 Likes: 1 |
To me the M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer is the ultimate. In fact I found a dandy one a couple days ago and like a fool walked away. I shall correct that on Monday. Thanks for the impetus.
I've owned a couple and regret letting them go. Time to correct that. Been doing a lot of that of late. You've forgotten more about the 1903 MS than I will ever know...but I did discover something regarding the bore dimension discrepancies. A lot of guys, including myself, tried .266 ish Carcano dimensioned bullets (usually without much improvement or joy). I gave up and used some Nosler Partitions, got better results but not quite what I had hoped. A friend gave me a bag of Privi Partizan 156 semi round noses, the most unlikely charge of 39 gr of the much unloved H380 in Norma cases. Bingo, a 3 moa rifle shrinks to about 1.3, at a very respectable 2,340 fps. It's worth a try if you are disappointed in the results of more traditional load recipes. I remember reading a Ken Waters article ( "Pet Loads") about the 6.5x54 M-S 1903. Accuracy wasn't great with great with "normally available" jacketed bullets which had 0.266" diameter (3 moa?) Waters slugged his 1903 M-S test rifle, and got a groove diameter of 0.268" ( 0 .002" larger than anticipated) . He order some 160 grain round nose jacketed bullets that were 0.268" diameter (Barnes original? ). His accuracy improved immediately to - I believe- ~1.5 inches at 100 yards. fwiw. I read his piece in Pet Loads, which prompted me to try the now-discontinued Hornady .268 Carcano bullets. The experience wasn’t quite so productive. One issue was was with the neck diameter of the loaded cartridge. All of my cases are recently manufactured Norma, which have thick neck walls, probably thicker than the stuff that Ken Waters used and almost certainly more than cases made in the early 1900s. When seating the .268 bullet, the neck diameter was right at the min chamber spec for the 6.5x54. In my rifle, some cartridges would chamber, others would not. While neck turning was an option, rifle’s throat was also less than ideal for the combination. The blunt profile of the Hornady RN combined with he larger bullet diameter required very deep seating. Not only did the loaded cartridges look awful, they also wouldn’t feed worth a hoot from the finicky Shoenauer magazine. So I quickly abandoned the effort. Just never felt it worthwhile as acceptable accuracy can be found with .264 bullets, particularly the Hawk 160s.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,091 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,091 Likes: 2 |
A 44 mag in a Rossi Model 92 works pretty darn good for deer or elk at spitting distance
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,381 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,381 Likes: 1 |
My solution for a close in brush rifle was a custom 99 Savage in 450 Bushmaster with a 16" barrel. Ticks all the boxes for me and has performed 100%. With Bear Creek Ballistics high BC bullets, and working up to the optimum load for the rifle, it is easily a 250 yard rifle that shoots 1 MOA.
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