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I know the VV 500 series are double based but so is Alliant Powders and all ball powders. Why does VV get so many
warnings on barrel Throat erosion and the others don't? Is it because VV has more Nitro than the others?

Tracy


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Curious to WHO is issuing the warnings on the Vihtavuori powders?


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
Curious to WHO is issuing the warnings on the Vihtavuori powders?

It's just something I have seen on forms like this one. They say, "double based powders cause faster throat erosion" and then they mention VV powders.

For myself I have not noticed any problems and I use VV and various ball powders.

Still, I have seen this quite a bit, so I am asking this question. What is your experience?


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I may be North Americas largest consumer of VVN160 (no, not really.)..I had no idea it was killing my rifles for years and years. But then I don't have a borescope...nor would I want to know....but it would be nice to blame my poor shooting on alligator throats. Military's routinely burn double base ball powders, they must not think it's too tough on throats. Short version...I don't know.


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
I may be North Americas largest consumer of VVN160 (no, not really.)..I had no idea it was killing my rifles for years and years. But then I don't have a borescope...nor would I want to know....but it would be nice to blame my poor shooting on alligator throats. Military's routinely burn double base ball powders, they must not think it's too tough on throats. Short version...I don't know.

VVN160 is single based powder from my understanding, its the VV500 series powders there talking about.


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You're right. I just read the VV #3 handbook, pg 48 thru 54...100 series is straight nitrocellulose...500 series has 2 more ingredients worthy of note. Nitroglycerol and...get this...an anti wear agent. They wouldn't put an anti wear agent in there just for fun. It must need it.
I incorrectly assumed from specific mention of Rel 19 in the N160 description column on pg 48, and that all Alliant powders were double base...ergo, so is N160...NOT. I think I'll just shut up now.


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flintlocke,

I happen to have the VV #3 manual as well, which was published in 1999. Here's the direct quote:

"Geometrically, the powders in the powders in the N500 series are equal to the N100 series. Although these new powders have a higher energy content, they do not cause greater wear to the gun. This is because the surface of the powder has been treated with an agent designed to reduce barrel wear."

One of the Campfire folks who's reported more barrel erosion with N500 series is boatanchor, who shoots a lot. I tend to believe what he says, since our experience often matches. But I haven't used both the 100 and 500 series powders enough in various rifles to tell--which is mostly because I have to test a LOT of different powders, so rarely fire enough of one particular powder in any rifle. (There are exceptions, but so far not with VV powders.)

Plus, VV powders have continued to change in the 25 years since the #3 manual was published. Around 2-3 years ago they announced that ALL their powders now contain copper-reduction compounds, and are temperature resistant. (They may have used another word than "resistant," but that's the word I prefer, because have yet to test a powder at zero Fahrenheit that also gets the same velocity at +100 F.)


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Mule Deer

In your experience what powders have the least variation in velocity with the temperature at 0 to 100?

Thanks

Last edited by Angus1895; 03/29/23.

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I have been a huge fan of Vihta Vuori powders for years, I use VVN130, VVN133, VVN140, VVN160, VVN165 and on occasion VVN170......I can say without hesitation that the 5 series powders are much worse with throat erosion than the 1 series powders for me I can live with 100fps loss using 1 series powders and gain double barrel life

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Mule Deer...Good to get that answered, thanks. I will soon be shopping for newer offerings in the powder world...my stocks of HiVel #2 are getting low.
Originally Posted by boatanchor
I have been a huge fan of Vihta Vuori powders for years, I use VVN130, VVN133, VVN140, VVN160, VVN165 and on occasion VVN170......I can say without hesitation that the 5 series powders are much worse with throat erosion than the 1 series powders for me I can live with 100fps loss using 1 series powders and gain double barrel life
Wow, Boatanchor, you don't mince words...good enough for me and thanks.


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Angus,

Rather than provide a short, Internet condensation of my testing, I would suggest my chapter on the subject in The Big Book of Gun Gack II, "Temperature and Rifle Powder," which contains not only a lot more basic information, but the results from range tests with various powder in cartridges from the .17 Hornady Hornet to the .375 H&H. If you don't have a copy, it can be ordered from www.riflesandrecipes.com--or if you prefer talking to an actual person, phoning 406-521-0273.


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