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So your assertions are that God ‘only’ reveals Himself through the Bible, and God doesn’t reveal Himself through the Holy Spirit, or through creation and nature, and anyone who thinks otherwise not only makes God a schizophrenic, but they also make God “many gods” instead of THE God…?

That comes across as just bein’ legalism under another name.

Contradictions between personal experiences of 'God' or the 'Holy Spirit' is an issue.

It has nothing to do with legalism because it isn’t law.

In my 56 years I’ve talked to a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds and you are the only person that I can think back to who holds this view. You are unanimous in this view.

To clarify I do not and did not say that God doesn’t communicate directly. I cannot because the testimony of scripture demonstrates very specific direct communication. However, this communication is always associated with specific messages given in the revelation of Christ throughout the scriptures. To take those isolated incidents and make them normative for everyone who believes is to go against the teaching of scripture, Christ and the apostles.

You are free to believe whatever you want but the sincerity of your belief and the strength with which you defend your beliefs do not make them Christian.

For you or anyone else interested we live in a day and age where we have open access to what the early post apostolic fathers taught. Many of their writings can be found at ethereal library.
What you champion on this forum as Christianity is not found in the evidence found in scripture or the history early church.

God is God to all men regardless of their regard concerning Him. He is the God of promise to those who are baptized and believe.

IZH27,

Well stated for the believers.

Where I used to attend they spoke of living in the Spirit.

One timeI invited a fellow to have Bible study. He stayed for a week and slept on the couch. One day he said, " The people at church talk about living in the Spirit, but they don't. You don't talk about living in the Spirit and yet you do."

Jesus says, "Let your light shine among men...."

It comes across as theological legalism or religious legalism. You (a professed Christian) judge or harshly criticize other followers of Jesus if they don’t believe exactly the way that you demand that they believe. Just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day did.More assertions that are clear examples of theological/religious legalism, just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day did.Are you again accusing my beliefs as not being Christian beliefs…?The historical fact is that Jesus’ earliest and most devout first century followers never owned a Christian Bible, and never read a Christian Bible...because there was no Christian Bible to be had or read. But these men and women turned the world upside down; they’re the reason that people worship Jesus today; and they never held a Christian Bible because there was no Christian Bible until the fourth century.

IZH27, are you an ordained preacher?
If so would you mind saying which denomination?

Correct, that is Matthew and the sermon on the mount, now we are getting somewhere.

I can only speak for myself but I would. There was a long time when I never entered a church but I firmly believed in God. Then I found the church the decides started. Now I attend regularly.

Going to open a can of worms. What do you do about "fasting and alms giving"?

Might I remind you, all who believed because of the witness of the resurrection and their disciples are dead.

People today know about Jesus from the Christian Bible. The serious ones want to learn about Jesus and want more information about him. They do sit around and dream about the Holy Spirit and remain in darkness. They read God's Word and learn from God about Jesus.

That doesn’t change the historical fact that the foundation of their faith was NOT something that was written. And that doesn’t change the historical fact that the foundation of their faith was something that happened. Should we not take our cues from Jesus’ earliest and most devoted followers…? Should we not base our faith on the same thing that they based their faith on…?Are you also asserting that God the Father ‘only’ reveals Himself through the Christian Bible…? Are you also asserting that God the Son ‘only’ reveals Himself through the Christian Bible…?Agreed.Do you think that Jesus’ apostle’s and and all of those first century Christians that’ve been mentioned that Jesus Himself sent the Holy Spirit to ‘sat around and dreamed about the Holy Spirit and remained in darkness’…? Do you think that Jesus’ followers nowadays that believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit that Jesus Himself sent to them “sit around and dream of the Holy Spirit and remain in darkness”…?Not denying that folks can do that, but that is NOT the ‘only’ way that people can learn from God, about Jesus or anyone else or anything else.

How do we know about the historical fact? We read about It in the legal historical document called the Bible.



What I say apart from the Bible is of no consequence. God's Word the Bible tells us there is only one Name that saves and that Name is Jesus. Apostle Paul wrote when Jesus returns "He will deal out retribution to those who do not know God and those who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."





They obeyed Jesus command to "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel."

They read God's Word and learn from God about Jesus.



If one wants to learn about a subject one would be wise to start with the best information available. They certainly would not venture out on their own and appeal to their own logic. Concerning the beginning of Christianity they would read what the founders wrote and what the early "fathers" wrote who used the manuscripts and partial manuscripts that were canonized and we use today. It's called the Bible.

And we can learn and know about history from reading a history book. But that doesn’t mean that the history book is the foundation of the history…! The history itself is what inspired the history book…! The history would still be true even if the history book was nonexistent…! It is the same with Christianity and the Christian Bible.So is it your assertion that there is no knowledge of God, or communication with God, or guidance from God “apart from the Bible”…?Agreed. But do you think the Christian Bible is the ‘only’ way that truth can be communicated to people…?And how does that fit in with our discussion…? Do you think the ‘only’ way to “know God” is through the Bible…? Do you think the ‘only’ way to “obey the Gospel” is through the Bible…?

Why is it that some professing Christians come across as judgmental, moralistic legalists who think they are the only ones going to heaven, and they seem to relish that notion…?

Regarding fasting.....My friends/family especially during Lent, have traditionally given something up, often sweets or a favorite food, in order to focus on the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. But fasting is much more than a means of developing self-control. Fasting is spiritual and physical purification; the pangs of hunger remind us of our hunger for God. Fasting and abstinence help us to participate more fully in the cross of Christ.

Regarding alms....giving is a very ancient practice; almsgiving was normative long before the time of Jesus. Sometimes we volunteer at a medical clinic, or tutor a child in school, or just increase our donations to the church.....you see, Lent is a time to prepare for Easter....it is a necessary prelude. The sacrificial practices of Lent prepare and purify us in body, mind and spirit for the passion of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Yep, but they weren’t doin’ it from the Christian Bible, because it didn’t even exist yet…! And neither did any of the Christian documents that would later comprise the New Testament.
So do you deny the ministry of the Holy Spirit…? Do you think that when Jesus’ followers are led by the Holy Spirit that they are venturing “out on their own”…? Do you think that when Jesus’ followers are led by the Holy Spirit that they are appealing “to their own logic”…?Who exactly were “the founders” of Christianity that you refer to above…? And what about the time period before ‘any’ of the Christian documents were even written…? Long ago, there was once a handful of Jesus followers, and all they had...ALL they had...was the reality of Jesus, and the teachings of Jesus as remembered by those who had heard Jesus teach, and His Resurrection, and "love God and love one another". They didn't have ‘any’ of the New Testament manuscripts because none of em’ had been written yet.

Wonderful.

Is it me or does your second quote differ significantly from your first , particularly after reading the first 6 words of the second?

"Who exactly were 'the founders' of Christianity".

Well that is easy. They were the Jewish Christians such as the Ebionites and Nazarenes (not the ones mentioned in Acts 20.

Not what became the Roman church.

The supposed literal interpretation of the bible expressed here is more of an example of literary license.

Kent