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Presbyterian?

I’ve not heard of either of the ‘influencers’ that you mentioned above. But I’m likely not as widely studied as you’ve claimed to be. I’ve certainly not bounced around searching for my faith from place to place and doctrine to doctrine and theological viewpoint to theological viewpoint to the degree that you’ve said that you have.

It is probably a good idea to heed what Gandhi said "It is unwise to be too sure of ones own wisdom" "and the wisest might err"

Just because one has believed something a long time it can easily be wrong. I think I was misled early on.

It might be a good idea to bounce around and check out other view points.

I think it terribly unwise to start out from the position of the ''inerrancy'' of scripture. The NT in particular was meddled with and doctored.

I'm unsure why when I read this, I read:
Do y'all think that Jesus wants (us) to live his life...etc. which made perfect sense to me as I read it.

In what you've quoted I see there is no "Us" between wants and to and to make sure I checked antlers post and it isnt there either, So Im not sure why I read/understood it that way? Perception is a funny thing....and I'm not trying to put words in antlers mouth so.....

In my tiny pea brain it translated to antlers asking if the collective "we" believed that Christ wanted us to relate/interact/follow/experience him through the Nature of his Spirit (which I was in agreement with)

or

Would Christ have us approach him and our belief/relationship in him, based only/strictly on what is written.
(whether we understood it or not , or whether we absorbed what was written correctly, which applies to me due to not being near as learned as most of you guys)??

Again, I'm not antlers nor do I play him on stage or screen or even at the Holiday Inn Express on talent nights, and my interpretation of his question may be incorrect ,so theres that.

All y'all take care.

You are making a mistaken assumption that I believe obedience leads to Jesus or salvation. I believe the exact opposite. Those who love God obey His New Testament commands, requests, injunctions, etc. Afterall, Apostle John wrote, "The love of the Lord is to obey His commands." Notice plural.

I like what you wrote here Hastings



Pard , if you only knew all the things I "tried on" in search of The Almighty before coming back to the "God of Infinite Grace"..... you'd likely have to have your ass surgically reattached due to it falling off during uproarious laughter. Seriously I was such a retard , but its nice to be back.

You clearly got the gist of what I was asking.Again, you clearly got the gist of what I was asking.

Maybe I’ve just over-simplified my lifelong relationship with my Lord but it’s always been a close personal one with NO barriers. My prayers are not subjected to any rules or requirements and I “speak” openly because to do anything else would be lying only to myself. I “speak” to God often. Throughout my day I’ll ask for guidance or I’ll thank Him or I’ll see someone and I’ll say a quick prayer. My “prayers” for the most part are nothing more than a silent conversation between “brothers” without any restraints, conditions or expectations but ALWAYS with an honest heart.

I’ve been the beneficiary of answered prayers and undeserved Grace so many times that I’ll never be convinced that it’s “not real” or simply a “series of coincidences”…..it’s become such an important and NECESSARY part of my life that the older I get the more comfort I get from it….the more comfort it brings me the more I seek it…it’s a beautiful circle.

I grew up in a small country Lutheran church and I loved it. Our pastor was typical of the Greatest Generation and had been a Chaplain in Korea. He hunted, fished, flew airplanes, drank beer, occasionally said a bad word and he LOVED THE LORD! He was gruff and rough but he was also kind and compassionate. He flew me around the state hunting pheasants and talking about life….honestly. He once told me something that 40+ years later has stuck in the thick skull of that 12 year old boy…..he said that “God wants to hear from us because he loves each of us but he also knows that we’re all “built different” and therefore we don’t all pray the same which is fine. God just wants to hear from you…however you pray. If you’re a long haul trucker sitting on the toilet in a rest stop and the only words you know are swear words God wants to hear from YOU!”

Proverbs 3:6

It is really that simple.

Aces, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, "maybe its just that simple".
I liked your post.

I believe that Jesus can actually live in and through His followers, and that’s what accounted for the incredible things that the first century Christians did that got Christianity into the second century, and then into the third century. And eventually becoming the primary faith of the Roman Empire itself.

But somewhere along the way this living and vibrant relationship with a living and vibrant Savior took a turn (for many) and became another ‘religion’ that it was never meant to be. And many bought into it because of what they’ve been taught and/or because of what’s been modeled for them and/or because a particular system of faith and worship is attractive to them.

And they approach Christianity like a ‘religion’.

I don’t think Jesus came to start a ‘religion’, nor did He come to extend an older ‘religion’. But Christianity did take a turn (for many) towards ‘religion’ and it began to lose (for many) this sense of a living and vibrant relationship with a living and resurrected Savior.

Beautiful words...thanks

Pity that there's nothing of substance to back that up.

Good stuff AcesNeights.

Thanks…..everyone. 👍🏼

I’m assuming that this is a partial explanation of the first option that you posed.

I have no idea what you mean by a vibrant relationship. As I read your explanation I see language that romanticizes the events recorded in the book of Acts or at least a romanticized an idea of Christianity drawn from that book.

What is a vibrant relationship with God? What are the components of a vibrant relationship with God? Is it something that you feel? Are you acting as
Christ in relation to doing miracles, healing? Are you selling all that you have and giving to the poor? Are you meeting every day in the home of other believers, sharing all things in common?

It’s a sincere question. What does a “vibrant relationship” with God mean to you?

What read as Presbyterian?

Predestination is what that sounded like. As in God will find his own and reject who he will. You have no election in the matter. I think John Calvin the murderer of Michael Servetus believed and taught that.

Presbyterians are Calvinist.

Do you have a relationship that’s full of enthusiasm and energy with ‘anybody’ in your life…?

I think Paul makes it clear that Jesus’ followers can learn to live in such a way that fruits of the Spirit are produced in them and through them, but not ‘by’ them. Whereas ‘religious’ people see the fruits of the Spirit as a to-do list…something for ‘them’ to do…other’s simply allow God to bear fruit in them and through them.

Paul said that since Jesus’ followers live by the Spirit, they outta keep in step with the Spirit. *That’s* the Christian life that is “vibrant” ~ keeping in step with the Spirit of God that lives within Jesus’ followers. It’s a completely different approach and a whole different mindset. It’s not just a couple of verses tucked away, it’s pretty much the entire New Testament.

And if you don’t lean this way, you’ll just become ‘religious’…and all that that entails…for your entire life. It’s about keeping in step…with Jesus’ Spirit who is alive and lives in you…as opposed to keeping the rules.

My statement wasn’t meant to sound Calvinist. I’m definitely not a Calvinist. However, I do have to contend with the statements throughout scripture that use the analogy of shepherd and sheep.

For the target of an analogy to be true the analogy itself must be true.