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Thanks you for that explanation.


What do you do to keep in step with the Spirit? Is it necessary to live a certain way for fruit to be evident? Does one have to see fruit through self assessment for there to be fruit?


You believe that the examples in Acts give us a visual of what the Christian who walks in the Spirit is to be about. How does that look in your life? What has the Spirit led you into that reflects what early “pre-religious” Christian’s were doing?

I think it starts with accepting this new identity of being “in Christ” ~ realizing that you’re forgiven and that you’re accepted and that there’s nothing you can do to get God to love you more than He already does, and that He lives by His Spirit in and through the souls of His followers.

And you have to embrace this new approach of asking God to lead you…because you already know all of the things that you oughta do, and the ways that you oughta be, and you’re gonna fail…and to help you walk in the Spirit and allow Him to produce fruit in you and through you.

And I think you oughta refuse to interact with God on the basis of rules. You're gonna break em’. And instead of saying “God, I did it again, I did it again”…, a more appropriate response should be “God, I got outta step, I got outta step.” It’s easier to be religious, but it’s way more frustrating.

It’s just a different approach, and it helped launch and grow the New Testament church, and there’s always been a remnant of people who never let go of this approach to the Christian life. And at the end of the day, or week, or month, as you begin to learn this ~ you’re gonna look behind you and see a positive difference. And your wife is gonna see a positive difference. And your kids are gonna see a positive difference.

Religion is all about following the rules. But I think Jesus had something different in mind. He calls us to follow ‘Him’, not rules. And I think He wants relationship, not automatons.

Paul said that our old self has been crucified with Christ. And that it is no longer we who live in these earthly bodies, but Christ is actually living within us. And we now live by completely trusting in, and relying on, Jesus ~ who loves us, and gave Himself for us.

In this different approach do you see signs, wonders, and miracles regularly, occasionally, or not at all. What is the positive difference? I seriously would like to know how a Christian knows when he is living this different approach.

When Paul says, “I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me”, what does that mean to you…?

You, efw and Ringman have said multiple times you 'don't understand'... your words. But in a way to challenge another's faith. And that's why you can't open your mind to listen to what's being said.

A younger friend of mine started hunting, I took him out for an elk hunt he was drawn for. I put him on a herd and he shot a spike, it was his first big game kill. He really got the bug, wanted to know everything about hunting, asking question after question on different scenarios. I realized no matter how many words I used he wouldn't understand till he experienced it... I finally told him I couldn't put my mind into his. He has become a great hunter and takes many people and youth out killing animals every year. Not because I told him stuff but because he embraced it and lived it in himself.

I or antlers or anyone can't put our faith into you, we are not required to make you guys understand.

We share our faith for those that it resonates with, maybe someone that has an inkling of God but doesn't know how to express it can say... yes, that's close to what I feel.

Kent

I would like to interject here what I believe to be walking in step with the Holy Spirit. I think that to really understand what it means to "walk in the Spirit" it is useful to think of the Holy Spirit by his other name," The Spirit of Truth."

If we look at our lives in complete truth, there are obviously many things that we could change to have a better life. If we simply do those things that lead us to love, joy, peace, goodness, gentleness, meekness temperance and self-control, we are developing the fruit of the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

What I see most Christians doing however is not following the truth in themselves. Instead, they study scripture learning what others did and then try to imitate them while expecting the same results. I believe God wants us to simply follow truth in those things which are revealed to us.

Living in Christ isn't just the high and low times, sunday morning service, stop to pray... it's mostly the mundane, everyday, all day.

Kent

while feeling/seeing/knowing God's Grace everywhere go, or look ,or even remember and realizing how fortunate you are to be cognizant of the fact

I'm grateful and never wish to disrespect the relationship. There is Joy and sadness, humor and fun. failure and success... yes Christ likes a good laugh.

Some folks have a specific slot for God in their life, specific times and places... words. The rest of life may not be worthy of God, maybe embarrassing, maybe it's seems out of God's prerogative.

A marriage... isn't about the sex, even if you had sex every day for an hour, that's 7 hours a week. There's 161 more hours a week that requires a relationship. You don't put away your wife 23 hours a day because of the mundane.

Don't put God away, ever... or you are just using him for specific satisfaction.

Kent

Antlers.

I’m not asking about approaches. I grew up directly influenced by the charismatic and these teachings. Furthermore, I grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt where such though is common if not in large degree the norm.

What I’m looking for is evidence. I’ve talked to many who have made the same claims as guy and KRP. The problem that I run into is that I never have been given specific examples of how someone holding these views life is different. What I typically find is people talking about internal and or emotional things.

You spoke of the early church doing things through the Spirit. If that is happening in your life, you doing things outside of yourself as witnessed in the book of Acts I’d appreciate examples of those things.

No one has I implied any of that.

Thanks for that. I wanna think that through a bit.

I understand exactly what you mean. As I have expressed before, I grew up in those teachings and influences. Furthermore, for the vast majority of my life I pursued those things and never did find what you say that you have. And before you go there, it wasn’t “not found” because of a lack of sincerity or trying.

I can’t be any more frank than to say that I don’t believe your experiences for a single moment. I am not saying that you aren’t or can’t be a believer. I simply don’t believe in anything that you have presented as a representation of the Christian faith.

I believe that you should apply the principle that you principle that you applied in your story to what I believe.

Luckily I don't have to satisfy your belief or your curiosity.

I believe you when say you can't feel the Holy Spirit the way I do.

I understand my faith and your faith.

You guys are the one's that are limited in understanding all faith.

Oh well...

Kent

No. Neither of us have to satisfy each other.

God? He’s the only one that I concern myself with regarding acceptance.

Maybe you could explain my faith to me? Since I have t gone into great detail with you I’d be interested in your take on it all.

Your faith is academic.

Kent

This has been a consistent inconsistency.

The accusation is made that my understanding by implication calls into question the faith of others, which is, according to those accusing me of questioning them, prima facia BAD… maybe even evil.

Then the same person making that accusation toward me either implies or comes right out (as KRP has above) and calls into question my faith.

Which is it? Is the questioning of the faith of another beyond the pale, or is it ok?

Or is it only ok when those who have a less formalized understanding of Christianity do it toward those who are consciously a part of a tradition and dubious as to those who aren’t?

Just a hypothetical question in that last paragraph. I think we can see the pattern.

I’ve been praying a lot lately. As many of you know my 82 yo mother in law was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s & dementia and our family has been caring for her 24/7 for about 7 mon. It’s been sad seeing her deteriorate and to see how painful it is for her and my wife. Necessitates much prayer for patience, perseverance, and the ability to rest in the assurance that God holds my mother in laws soul just as he does ours and those of our children.

Stuff is all a mystery to me and the longer I live the more I love Christ’s Church and the less I understand exactly what that means. I know for sure that I’m glad I don’t have to live up to some other man’s idea of what my faith ought to look like, tho knowing my heart for what it is and Gods holiness for what it is it might be easier to please Ken then God and there is appeal to that even tho it’s get me nowhere.

I've never questioned your faith... you and the others have constantly said you don't understand mine. How does that relate to your faith?

You guys take my faith personally for some reason.

I guess just me testifying my faith, which you don't understand and then defending it... is somehow an attack on yours.

Kent

I personally think too many Christians go about doing prideful and many times harmful things to others in the name of serving God. Mostly I see this in people who are 100% sure that their version of understanding unanswerable questions is the only correct interpretation. I'm always happy to meet a man who is honest enough to seek answers rather than prideful enough to always give them.