|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14 |
No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn’t fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.'' Just hang on DBT, it's happening. The world brought forth its exiles and Israel was reborn in a day (Isaiah 66). I'm not sure of the next step but mankind is lining up a huge push for war. The weapons to effectively destroy most of humankind exists. Either salvation is coming or annihilation. We will see. Mankind has never before failed to use whatever weapons were available.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13 |
Regarding the OP: Do you guys think that following Jesus leads to, not just eternal life, but to a fulfilling life in the here and now…?
Is Christianity just the consumption of theology and Bible reading, or is it also a way of living…?
Is there a difference between believing in Jesus, and following Jesus…?
More pointedly, is believing how you become a Christian, and is following how you be a Christian…?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,687 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,687 Likes: 5 |
Regarding the OP: Do you guys think that following Jesus leads to, not just eternal life, but to a fulfilling life in the here and now…?
Jesus said that He was persecuted and that His followers should expect the same. There is a benefit to living in harmony with the laws of the universe (that is, by following the edicts of the great lawgiver Himself) but that isn’t any sort of guarantee at all and ought definitely not be expected.
Is Christianity just the consumption of theology and Bible reading, or is it also a way of living…?
Why the either/or? I’ve found my Christian life to be deeply enriched by reflection upon study of God’s word. Christ Himself was well studied in and pointed with reverence to the sacred texts… He is my Lord… why would I not do the same? I’ve also found a great deal of value in contemplating the ways that great Christians of the past have thought about scripture and what it means to be a faithful follower of Christ.
I’d hate to imagine the state of the Church of each successive generation had to relearn mysteries so deep that an eternity couldn’t delve their depths.
It all enriches my experience but really only convinces me of the fact that I am in constant need of grace. I don’t really see myself becoming more Christlike so much as I see the depths of my need for His grace every second of every minute of every hour… etc etc
Is there a difference between believing in Jesus, and following Jesus…?
The scriptures say that demons believe in Jesus. On the other hand, as I’ve said above, I sure don’t care to call attention to my following of Jesus even tho I’d enthusiastically beg God’s pardon in His name.
More pointedly, is believing how you become a Christian, and is following how you be a Christian…?
Christians are just folks who recognize their worthlessness apart from the love of God in Jesus Christ. If I’m to be held to account for my ability to conform my life to His I’m hell bound
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,937 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,937 Likes: 3 |
Regarding the OP: Do you guys think that following Jesus leads to, not just eternal life, but to a fulfilling life in the here and now…?
Is Christianity just the consumption of theology and Bible reading, or is it also a way of living…?
Is there a difference between believing in Jesus, and following Jesus…?
More pointedly, is believing how you become a Christian, and is following how you be a Christian…? It has been transformed into many things by many people but at its core it has to be a way of living as dictated by its own doctrine. Its not a way of living though as in I have to read all the rules and follow them to get my prize at the end as religion has transformed it into. It's a way of living that allows you to have the things we all want out of life, peace, love, joy, etc... because it's impossible to have those things in a chaotic world without forgiving yourself and everyone else, and looking at life with gratitude. Is there a difference between believing in Jesus, and following Jesus…? Yes, but I think that is up to each individual as we all serve different roles living different lives. It's easy to get caught up in trying to serve Jesus while really just serving your own ego. I my book self-examination is a huge part of prayer. The saved man has a new heart which he has to follow. It's up to God to reveal what he needs to do to be a follower. I would however say that if a man knows in his heart of hearts, he isn't doing what he should be doing and just making excuses about why he can't do it to himself, he likely isn't following God. More pointedly, is believing how you [b]become a Christian, and is following how you be a Christian…?[/quote][/b] No, you can't get more saved than saved. What we call sanctification to me simply means you learning who and what you became at the moment of salvation. You aren't becoming more Christian, but you should act different the more you learn. If you are learning correctly, you are following the Spirit of Truth that is leading you in all the changes you need to make in your life to bear fruit, as defined in scripture as love, joy, peace, goodness, gentleness, temperance, and self-control.
Last edited by RHClark; 04/18/23.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,409
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,409 |
[quote=DBT]No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn’t fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.'' Just hang on DBT, it's happening.. I'm not sure of the next step but mankind is lining up a huge push for war. The weapons to effectively destroy most of humankind exists. Either salvation is coming or annihilation.
We will see. Mankind has never before failed to use whatever weapons were available. Yes, I believe this and it is frightening.
Last edited by Raspy; 04/18/23. Reason: spelling
Illegitimi non carborundum
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14 |
Regarding the OP: Do you guys think that following Jesus leads to, not just eternal life, but to a fulfilling life in the here and now…?
Is Christianity just the consumption of theology and Bible reading, or is it also a way of living…?
Is there a difference between believing in Jesus, and following Jesus…?
More pointedly, is believing how you become a Christian, and is following how you be a Christian…? If there is the fallen rebellious angel referred to as Satan or Lucifer he (it) believes in Jesus.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,927 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,927 Likes: 4 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,937 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,937 Likes: 3 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted? I'm more interested in what you think about it. Do you think you were following the Spirit and how would what happened be any different from anything done to honestly help someone else, miraculous or not?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,230 Likes: 14 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted? I was wondering if the weather change story was real or just a sort of a parable. I was wondering also if it in fact was real was it in line with the forecast that the sky would suddenly clear that day. That does happen fairly often you know. Not sure what the second example was and anyway none of us were there to see exactly what went on. Eye witnesses are a terrible source for accurate information.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,556 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,556 Likes: 13 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted? I thought it had been answered by several people. I think that your desire to help, your willingness to give up your time freely and your praying with her WAS and IS an example of “walking in the Spirit”….the healing is beyond my ability to comment on but I KNOW that the actual healing or “clearing” of the sky….the “perceived results of your prayers” are not required, expected or necessary to still be “walking in the spirit”. What would Jesus do is a common refrain but I think if you are wondering what walking in the spirit looks like you could ask What would Jesus do and that would answer your question about walking in the spirit. Would Jesus have taken time to pray for a sick person?….ABSOLUTELY! Would Jesus take time out of his day to help someone struggling with sickness or temptation or fear or ?….ABSOLUTELY! Ringman….Do you think your examples are walking in the spirit? If the lady wasn’t healed or the skies hadn’t cleared would they still be examples of walking in the spirit?
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,989
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,989 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted? I think the answer to your question is in these two verses. I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,284 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,284 Likes: 1 |
How a disease heals, progesses or goes into remission has nothing to do with the gods. Just another unsubstantiated assertion.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13 |
If there is the fallen rebellious angel referred to as Satan or Lucifer he (it) believes in Jesus. He knows scripture too.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,284 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,284 Likes: 1 |
Why not address what you have clearly proposed as truth in the clear contradiction to what scripture teaches and what Christ has said of Himself.
The nature of my character, whatever it might be, has no bearing upon what you have said. We have nothing from Christ himself. Everything was written decades or more after the described events. Judaism does not accept Jesus as their prophesied Messiah for the given reasons; ''The concept of the Messiah has its foundation in our Jewish Bible, the Tanach, which teaches that all of the following criteria must be fulfilled before any person can be acknowledged as the Messiah:
Reason #1 – The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon – Jesus did not qualify. The Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 22:9-10). Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son (Numbers 1:1-18). There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a “birth-father” from the tribe of Judah descending from King David and King Solomon (Matt. 1:18-20).
Reason #2 – Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles – Jesus did not do this. When the Messiah is reigning as King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24). This has clearly not yet happened and we still await its fulfillment.
Reason #3– Rebuilding of the Holy Temple – Jesus failed to achieve this. The Temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt (Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26–27; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21). The Temple was still standing in Jesus’ day. It was destroyed 38 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and it has not yet been rebuilt. Reason #4- Worldwide Reign of Peace – Jesus did not accomplish this. There will be universal disarmament and worldwide peace with a complete end to war (Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18). Wars have increased dramatically in the world since the start of Christianity. Reason #5 – Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews – Jesus didn’t bring this about. The Messiah will reign as King at a time when all the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments (Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27). Jesus never ruled as King, nor have all Jews embraced the commandments of G-d’s Torah.
Reason #6 – Universal Knowledge of G-d – Jesus clearly failed here also. The Messiah will rule at a time when all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true G-d (Zechariah 3:9, 8:23,14:9,16; Isaiah 45:23, 66:23; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 38:23; Psalm 86:9; Zeph. 3:9). This, as well, has not yet taken place and we await its fulfillment. No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn’t fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.'' https://jewsforjudaism.ca/six-reaso...not-the-jewish-messiah-jews-for-judaism/So, how would one explain away the 47 or so messianic prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? The OT clearly teaches about the Messiah, Jesus is the Messiah. Someone who claims Jesus was not mentioned in the OT simply chooses to ignore not only the fulfilled prophecies but also the reality of the Second Coming. If Jesus was the Messiah then the claim that “Jesus” was not mentioned in the OT is simply ignorant. Btw….mare you familiar with the concept that God has purposely “blinded” the Jewish “nation”……? Likely blinded until the “fulness of the Gentiles.”
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,094 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,094 Likes: 4 |
There are fans in the seats... there are teammates on the field... different positions to play.
Kent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,808 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,808 Likes: 2 |
Is anyone going to answer the question at the end of the second example I posted? Maybe not, there's a anomaly with your credibility that we're working through: I went to Alaska with an unbeliever and I asked the Lord to grant a miracle to show His power to this unbeliever.
On the particular day in question the total sky was overcast and raining.The temperature was 35*. I happened to fall into the water and the only thing that was not wet was my right arm and my head. When I got up on the bank Shannon was watching me. He said he thought I was going to die from hypothermia. I impolitely ignored him. I said,, "Lord you know I don't like the rain. I need a dry day and I need it right now. In Jesus' Name, amen.
Instantly, I can't say that enough, instantly and immediately above us a little round circle in the clouds turned blue. The clouds disappeared clear over the horizon 360ﾟ in 10 to 15 seconds. Shannon exclaimed, "Man that works!"
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13 |
For the overwhelming majority of written ancient history, we have nothing from the historical figures/characters themselves. For the overwhelming majority of written ancient history, everything was written well after the described events.
But there are actually more than 15,000 New Testament manuscripts (from fragments to complete New Testaments) - 5,000 in Ancient Greek alone - way more than what exists for any other ancient Jewish, Greek, or Roman literature. Historians typically consider themselves fortunate to have ancient manuscripts numbering in double figures.
The oldest known fragment of the Gospel dates to A.D. 125...within one generation of the documents original composition. At least several centuries elapse between the oldest existing copies and the original composition of most other ancient historical works.
And the Gospel was written within living memory of all of the authors. Our best surviving biography of Alexander the Great comes from nearly five hundred years after his death...!
Non-believers of the Gospel clearly do not hold all of ancient recorded history to the same standards that they ‘selectively’ apply to the historicity of the Gospel. The Gospel reports real events and real teachings of Jesus. Non-believers clearly don’t like that. But there it is.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,718 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,718 Likes: 2 |
No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn’t fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.'' Just hang on DBT, it's happening. The world brought forth its exiles and Israel was reborn in a day (Isaiah 66). I'm not sure of the next step but mankind is lining up a huge push for war. The weapons to effectively destroy most of humankind exists. Either salvation is coming or annihilation. We will see. Mankind has never before failed to use whatever weapons were available. The world has always had wars and rumors of wars. The Roman destruction of the temple and scattering of the population was the time of Revelation, the apocalypse and the expected return of Jesus in power and glory "for all the tribes on earth to see."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,927 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,927 Likes: 4 |
Like Apostle Peter wrote, they are willfully ignorant.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,322 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,322 Likes: 3 |
No matter how many unusual & miraculous things Jesus seems to accomplish in the New Testament, he doesn’t fulfill even one of the 6 criteria by which the Nation of Israel can recognize him as the true Jewish Messiah.'' Just hang on DBT, it's happening. The world brought forth its exiles and Israel was reborn in a day (Isaiah 66). I'm not sure of the next step but mankind is lining up a huge push for war. The weapons to effectively destroy most of humankind exists. Either salvation is coming or annihilation. We will see. Mankind has never before failed to use whatever weapons were available. The world has always had wars and rumors of wars. The Roman destruction of the temple and scattering of the population was the time of Revelation, the apocalypse and the expected return of Jesus in power and glory "for all the tribes on earth to see." And the 'tribes' did see it, and they(the tribes) are no more.....
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
|
|
|
|
|
575 members (10gaugemag, 1badf350, 10gaugeman, 06hunter59, 12344mag, 10ring1, 62 invisible),
1,793
guests, and
1,133
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,235
Posts18,524,857
Members74,031
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
