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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just me? Does this bunch rather argue than Worship?
I said that, but I have a log in my eye. If you can’t understand my simple post above…as evidenced by your response to it…then how’re you to understand something more complex…?
Not giving you something that you can attack and ridicule
draws a “dishonesty” accusation from you. And refuting your tactics draws a “slippery” accusation from you. I'm very sorry you FEEL that way. No, the man is correct. There is something wrong with you. Could be. [bleep] man that could be said of any of us.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Spiritual faith can't be taught. Kent
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Spiritual faith can't be taught. I doubt that learning is the goal.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Spiritual faith can't be taught. I doubt that learning is the goal. I was being nice... Kent
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If I were an atheist, which I am not, I can imagine the atheists reading these threads feel very justified in their belief/unbelief.
Would anyone of an open and inquiring mind seeking answers to life's questions and seeking our creator and his will be drawn in and find answers after reading all that is posted here?
DBT, AS, and Mauser probably get a good laugh at us.
We are constantly straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel and I'm sure a good many of us would gladly kill Jesus a 2nd time if he came back and turned over the tables of our beliefs.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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Would anyone of an open and inquiring mind seeking answers to life's questions and seeking our creator and his will be drawn in and find answers after reading all that is posted here? Hopefully they’d know or find out that there’s a difference between essential beliefs and non-essential beliefs. It’s not required that they believe in the literal 6 day creation narrative in Genesis (for example) in order to receive salvation. But it is required that they believe in the Gospel in order to receive salvation. Once belief in the Gospel is established, the rest is just details and commentary that point to, and reflect, the truth of the Gospel. People sometimes see those details and commentary differently, and that’s OK. The main thing is to see to it that the main thing stays the main thing.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Would anyone of an open and inquiring mind seeking answers to life's questions and seeking our creator and his will be drawn in and find answers after reading all that is posted here? Hopefully they’d know or find out that there’s a difference between essential beliefs and non-essential beliefs. It’s not required that they believe in the literal 6 day creation narrative in Genesis (for example) in order to receive salvation. But it is required that they believe in the Gospel in order to receive salvation. Once belief in the Gospel is established, the rest is just details and commentary that point to, and reflect, the truth of the Gospel. People sometimes see those details and commentary differently, and that’s OK. The main thing is to see to it that the main thing stays the main thing. Mr. Hastings My personal opinion is that for such a person as you describe, God would find a way. It might be here or elsewhere. Someone might hear something here that makes a difference because this is the only place they look. I believe God finds a way to answer when anyone honestly asks.
Last edited by RHClark; 04/23/23.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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Sometimes, people are grasping, looking for faith.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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Spiritual faith can't be taught.
Kent It is nurtured and grown. It is as a seed that is planted, it must be tended. MULTIPLE verses in God's Word outlines it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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If I were an atheist, which I am not, I can imagine the atheists reading these threads feel very justified in their belief/unbelief.
Would anyone of an open and inquiring mind seeking answers to life's questions and seeking our creator and his will be drawn in and find answers after reading all that is posted here?
DBT, AS, and Mauser probably get a good laugh at us.
We are constantly straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel and I'm sure a good many of us would gladly kill Jesus a 2nd time if he came back and turned over the tables of our beliefs. I don't laugh. I just see faith for what it is, a belief held without the support of evidence. And that this is being expressed in disputes over theology. Being contradictory, everyone can't be right, but anyone who holds a belief on faith can be wrong.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Would anyone of an open and inquiring mind seeking answers to life's questions and seeking our creator and his will be drawn in and find answers after reading all that is posted here? Hopefully they’d know or find out that there’s a difference between essential beliefs and non-essential beliefs. It’s not required that they believe in the literal 6 day creation narrative in Genesis (for example) in order to receive salvation. But it is required that they believe in the Gospel in order to receive salvation. Once belief in the Gospel is established, the rest is just details and commentary that point to, and reflect, the truth of the Gospel. People sometimes see those details and commentary differently, and that’s OK. The main thing is to see to it that the main thing stays the main thing. Mr. Hastings My personal opinion is that for such a person as you describe, God would find a way. It might be here or elsewhere. Someone might hear something here that makes a difference because this is the only place they look. I believe God finds a way to answer when anyone honestly asks. “Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.” - Paul (Hebrews 11:1), circa 63 AD.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Yes, Paul essentially got it right. Faith is its own justification, ''faith is the substance, the 'evidence' of things 'hoped for, therefore requiring no evidence to support one's faith. Self justification rather than justification through evidence.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,576 Likes: 13 |
Faith is also trusting in what you have good evidence to believe. Faith is also evidence based.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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Faith is also trusting in what you have good evidence to believe. Faith is also evidence based. Faith is not evidence. Paul's definition says that faith is its own 'evidence,' which means self justification, not justification through objective verifiable evidence.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't laugh. I just see faith for what it is, a belief held without the support of evidence.
And that this is being expressed in disputes over theology. Being contradictory, everyone can't be right, but anyone who holds a belief on faith can be wrong. That is exactly what faith is.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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As an outside observer I have nothing upon which to base a decision other than your word. What specific resolution or conclusion are you trying to reach on this matter after considering only what others say here…? And did you reach a specific resolution or conclusion on this matter after consideration of what “the only person to give literal examples of this communication” had to say here…? The conclusion that I reach is that the view of Christianity that I am asked to believe, that we are told is the true way, rests in nothing other than the subjective. At least ringman gave examples of the experiences that suooort his view. You, KRP and Mr Clark give nothing but words telling people the way that it’s supposed to be. Consider the issue from the perspective of a non believer. What does your view of Christianity give that person that is objective? The concept is no different than any other religion in the world. The argument for the view is “I’ve experienced this. You can to”. Well asks the non believer, “What have you experienced”? Will you give him the same vague answers? What proof will you give him? It is your claim that the Holy Spirit communicates with you directly. It is your contention that this is the real and true way of the faith. Therefore, the weight of responsibility is upon you do demonstrate the “truth” of the matter. Otherwise all that you say is a bunch of white noise in a world of competing religious ideas.
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Campfire Tracker
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Spiritual faith can't be taught. I doubt that learning is the goal. Why do you make the issue about me and my integrity when I am asking honest questions? Why not simply answer the question?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Spiritual faith can't be taught. Kent No one is asking to be taught. The question is one of giving support for the truth claim that you make.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
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The, or at least a, premise of the OP is that communication with the Holy Spirit is necessary for a vital life as a Christian.
I embrace the scriptural teaching that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit if we are truly believers. I have made it clear that I do not believe, that as presented throughout this and it's sister threads, the Holy Spirit communicates with believers in the way that is presented here.
Since this means of interacting with God is presented as a premise of the argument that supports the subject of the thread I asked for specific evidence of how God has communicated with those who report experiencing this form of communication. This is a fair question to ask being based on a premise of the concept being discussed.
So far, Ringman, has been the only person to give literal examples of this communication. He has given us examples of events including references to communication surrounding and directly related to those events.
Several other posters on this thread have consistently contended that the Holy Spirit communicates directly with them. I direct my question at you. While you have given vague answers to explain this communication the only person to give detailed examples is Ringman.
There is no doubt that I am a skeptic of the highest order concerning the premise that I am addressing. I have made that clear and tried to give a simple justification for my position.
My question is for the other posters who report communication with the Holy Spirit. As an outside observer I have nothing upon which to base a decision other than your word. I have not observed your communication and surrounding experiences. That being the case, you may as well be trying to prove that pink unicorns exist because you saw one.
If indeed you have and do communicate with the Holy Spirit, would you mind sharing some specific examples of events that involved this communication?
Considering this, what would be the point of relating specific examples of HS communication? I will say, just to give my viewpoint, that I believe the HS to be the small still voice leading a believer into all truth. He is the voice that says don't, when you know you really shouldn't but want too anyway. He is the voice that says do, when you know you should but really don't want to. He is the voice that encourages, when you need encouragement. He is the voice that speaks the truth in all things if you take the time and consideration to listen. The point in asking is simple. We are told in scripture to be able to give an account for the hope that is within us. The claim of communication must have and end result. I am simply asking for solid examples of what this is and what this looks like in real life experience. The claim of being led into all truth has been addressed and demonstrated as questionable at best. This has been demonstrated within this thread.
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