Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Israel and their current place in God’s economy.

Christians didn't run Paul off. You read something and then just jump to some wild conclusion you made up. Paul had to escape the city in a basket and went into exile for a while. The bible doesn't say, I repeat does not say that the real Jesus followers ran him off for lying. That's all made up in your head.

What happened is that Paul was very educated in and aligned with the leaders of Judaism. Remember he had been given authority to arrest and bring to trial the heretic Christians. He was a man used to authority. When this known religious official converted and started arguing and showing from the Jewish scriptures the divinity of Jesus it stirred up such a fuss that it actually threatened the early Christian church. That's why Paul went into exile for a while, not because he was running from angry Christians.

You are correct. A good bit of the 613 rules do not apply. I am not a Levite priest so all that is out. I can marry a gentile so that is out, I don't have to follow the rules for kings because obviously I'm not a king. I have never had the opportunity to put frankincense or olive oil on a sin offering of flour, ect. etc.

But the laws concerning health and morality should be followed. I cannot get involved in killing adulterers or folks getting mixed up in sexual perversions though so I'll trust the Lord to understand.

The big 10 are still in force or Jesus would not have endorsed them. And he endorsed going above and beyond by following the spirit of the law not just the technicalities.

John and Jesus both preached repentance as a condition of salvation, but I do believe that faith and grace are absolutely part of the equation. The Lord must be acknowledged and obeyed which equals faith plus works.

Wrong

The Law is our Schoolmaster, that leads us to Christ.

How's that?

Because anyone with an ounce of honesty knows they cannot keep the law. We need a covering.

Even intimating that we keep the law is a denial of truth.

You are such a mixed bag of confusion, contradictions, and hypocrisy. You just don’t get it and don’t want to get it.

The Law is all 613 commandments, a package deal, Galatians 5:3. If you break even ONE commandment, you break them all, James 2:10. You don’t have the luxury you think you have of picking and choosing which ones to keep. You have to keep them ALL under the Law.

By keeping the Law, you reject what Jesus did at the cross in setting us free from the law. You have severed yourself from Jesus by placing yourself under the Law, and you have fallen from grace, Galatians 5:4.

We are to live a life based on faith alone (no works required for salvation) in Jesus through the Holy Spirit, not the Law. Jesus freed us from that curse, Galatians 3:13-14. The curse of the Law was its condemnation. Jesus took our curse so we could receive His righteousness, 2 Corinthians 5:21. Paul said those keeping the Law are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

So it is clear that things much more significant than an iota or a dot have already passed from the law.

Yes. The law was only a picture of what it would take to be perfect. God only gave it in response to the Israelites proudly proclaiming that they were well able to do all that God could ask of them. Moses had led them out of bondage and God wanted to speak to them in person. They were all afraid and just told Moses to go by himself and find out what God wanted, and they boasted they were well able to do anything God told them. God said OK here's a list and at the end he even added a rule that if you broke even the smallest one you were guilty of them all. God also added the most important part, when you can't keep them, make a sacrifice. The point of it all was to lead them to faith in the sacrifice. As an aside I always find it interesting that law minded folks seem to remember the law, but they never mention anything about the sacrifice.

If you break one of the 613 commands, you break them all.

Do you pick up a stick on Saturday?
Do you travel 3/5 of a mile on Saturday?
Is there a mezuzah on each doorpost?
Do you eat creatures that live in water other than fish?
Do you eat the meat of an animal that died without ritual slaughter?
Do you ritually slaughter an animal before eating it?
Do you eat untithed fruit?
Do you eat fresh grapes? or raisins?
Do you separate your tithe for the poor?
Do you set aside the first fruits and bring them to the Temple?
Do you give away the shoulder, 2 cheeks, and stomach of slaughtered animals?
Do you blow the shofar on the 10th of Tishrei to free the slaves?
Do you guard the Temple area?
Do you salt all your sacrifices?
Do you offer 2 lambs every day?
Do you burn incense every day?
Do you light the Menorah every day?
Do you make the show bread?

Remember, if you break even one of the 613 commands, you have broken all of them. This is just a few of those 613 commands.

Why have you rejected God’s grace and made yourself a slave to the Law? Galatians 5:1. Jesus set us free from that bondage.

That’s evidenced by the clear cherry-picking that goes on by the Torahists. They clearly cherry-pick a tiny fraction of the Law of Moses that they’re gonna live by and call it good. They cherry-pick 1.9% of the Mosaic Law that they’re gonna abide by and convince themselves that they’re ‘walking in Torah.’

?????

First part of 21 Paul is seen 'getting along' just fine with Christians, they even warned about the JEWS....

And then you see 'the JEWS from Asia' stir up the people against him...........

HOW is this Christians against Paul???? And 'running him off'..........

Which means 'Heaven and Earth' have passed away.......

What happened my friend is that since the expansion of Christianity you have had a lot of well-meaning yet uneducated and ignorant preachers teaching a bastardized version of Christianity by trying to combine the old and new testaments. It's gone on so long that it has become essentially a separate religion practiced by people who do not understand either law or grace.

Can you show me an example of "raining cats and dogs" in any translation of the Bible? You seem to think God is not able to protect His Word from one language to another. Like I posted, I discovered the commentaries contradicted each other and occasionally the Bible. I didn't find "nuances of the Greek language" to change any of the meanings in the Bibles I used. The books other than the Bible can and do lead people astray.

And many, at least some, do not even understand the Old Law........ like tithing.....

A tithe was NOT, 10% of what you made, minus taxes, insurance , dues and such........

An Old Law tithe was 10% of EVERYTHING that you owned, each and every year.......... Had a bad year??? You still owed 10% of everything that you owned. Made NOTHING one year, you still owed the 10%..............

Try preaching that today.......

Please explain "Grace".

God’s Word illustrates that grace is a free forever gift of unmerited favor, mercy, and loving kindness. It is accessed through faith alone (apart from works), Romans 5:1-2 and Ephesians 2:8-9.

It is how we are saved and receive eternal life. Those who revert to the Law have fallen away from Christ and are severed from Christ, Galatians 5:4. The Law can’t give eternal life.

The question is do you know. I know what grace means. Do you? I'll define it if you will. You first, go ahead. I dare you.

Maybe you are just mistaken and not purposely falsifying.

The tithe was instituted to support the priesthood that ran the whole country from governing, to religion, to social programs if any), everything. The Levites did not get any land so the other tribes chipped in 10% of the produce of the land. The hireling's wages were not taxed, nor commercial fish, nor mining. The agricultural and livestock were tithed and not everybody farmed or had cattle and sheep. There were additional tithes at other times but it remained on the produce of the land. Other people such as the widow and her pennies gave offerings as they could.

So, you might want to correct that after looking into it. I will agree that a person like me should give generously to the less fortunate but there are people barely scraping by that basically don't own any unpledged property. They give what they can if they can. They are in no way obligated by any OT scripture to fork up 10% of their meager living.

BOTH admit to the reality that earthly government by man exerted authority.

PAUL averred that they (the civil government) were "ordained by God" and "he is a minister of God to thee for good" and "they are God's ministers". And Paul further warned you could get your head chopped off "for he beareth not the sword in vain". That sounds crazy

Now I have a question for those of you who quote Paul for your plan of salvation. Can you by using Jesus' words only as a reference come up with the same plan? It's OK to use the OT but Let's stop with Jesus.

I assume when you say 'Let's stop with JESUS' that you mean use nothing that came after HIS ascension, using only the OT the Gospels and the first few verses of Acts?????