Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity…

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved” is from Mark, not Paul, Mark 16:16. Water baptism was required under the gospel of the kingdom, not the gospel of grace (Paul’s gospel). It’s a continuation of the message that John the Baptist began. Repentance and water baptism were required for salvation under the gospel of the kingdom, Acts 2:38

Water baptism was replaced with baptism of the Holy Spirit in about 60 AD, Ephesians 4:5. Unlike the 12 and John the Baptist, God sent Paul to proclaim the gospel, not to baptize. Paul wrote to the Ephesians that water baptism had stopped, 1 Corinthians 1:17.

The Church has one baptism, that of the Holy Spirit, Romans 6:3-5. This baptism identifies believers with Jesus in His death and resurrection. It is a spiritual, not an aquatic experience.

Water baptism was a hold-over from the kingdom program and ended with Ephesians 4. Its spiritual component was repentance toward God, which salvation required under the kingdom gospel. It was a Jewish rite and now has no place in Christianity. The gospel of grace baptizes one into the Body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13.[/quote]

Re-read my post. It starts with, "What does Jesus say?" So it looks like your whole premise is wrong. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Jesus did NOT change His mind just because He recruited Saul of Tarsus. No apostle has authority to overrule Jesus, our God and Savior, and theirs.


Water baptism was replaced with baptism of the Holy Spirit... is a fallacious statement. Consider Apostle Peter probably knew more than you. Ane what did he command a group of baptized by the Holy Spirit believers? He ordered them to be baptized in water!

Your appeal to Romans 6:3 is ludicrous. God wants believers to understand we are buried with Christ in water. How could Jesus be any clearer in John 3? "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'" You folks who contradict Jesus are amazing. You really need to appeal to 1 John 1:9.[quote][/quote]

Re-read my post. It starts with, "What does Jesus say?" So it looks like your whole premise is wrong. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Jesus did NOT change His mind just because He recruited Saul of Tarsus. No apostle has authority to overrule Jesus, our God and Savior, and theirs.


Water baptism was replaced with baptism of the Holy Spirit... is a fallacious statement. Consider Apostle Peter probably knew more than you. Ane what did he command a group of baptized by the Holy Spirit believers? He ordered them to be baptized in water!

Your appeal to Romans 6:3 is ludicrous. God wants believers to understand we are buried with Christ in water. How could Jesus be any clearer in John 3? "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'" You folks who contradict Jesus are amazing. You really need to appeal to 1 John 1:9.[/quote]

——————————————————————————————————————————-
Oh boy,

Confession of sin was part of the kingdom gospel, Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:5, James 5:16. It is not part of the doctrine of the Church. Paul taught that a believer’s salvation was complete when one believed his gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

I did re-read your post. You are really confused, and your response is ludicrous, lol. Open your spiritual eyes and read God’s Word!! You are contradicting God’s Holy Word and appear to be a deliberate deceiver.

Paul said a believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6:3-5, Titus 3:5-7

Water baptism is a human work (a carryover from Judaism); spiritual baptism is a divine work (Christianity).

Water baptism was a sign for Israel, a cleaning of the nation. There is only ONE baptism now, a spiritual baptism,, not water, Ephesians 4:4-6, of the Holy Spirit.

We are baptized into Jesus’ death and resurrection, Romans 6:3-5, and into His body, 1 Corinthians 12:13. The Holy Spirit is the baptizer, Titus 3:5-7, and makes us part of the Body of Christ.

Baptism was a sign for Israel, a cleansing of the nation. It portrayed the priests washing as they ministered in the temple. Every Jew was to be a priest in the kingdom, per God’s promise to the nation, Exodus 19:6. Israel was to become a holy nation, a kingdom of priests. That’s what baptism was about, the washing before performing their duties, Hebrews 9:10.

Do you believe Paul’s gospel, that by faith alone, Jesus died for your sins, was buried and rose from the dead? What do you believe for your salvation?

Are you a Jew, Ringman? What are you, besides confused!,

Open your eyes and read God’s Holy Word. It’s all there, laid out there before your blinded eyes…

Born means born, not baptized... literally it means you must be born two times and the last spiritually to 'enter' the kingdom of God.... you aren't entering physically.

No baptism mentioned in that verse.

Kent

Didn't Jesus' spirit come back and relocate his body for some reason?

I've tried to delve a little into Paul because I thought in only fair if I were going to suspect and even disparage Paul that I at least refresh my memory. I find Paul being hugely against circumcision nonetheless himself circumcised his travelling companion Timothy. What's up with that?

More of him being all things to all people?

Sounds like deception (lying) to me.

Well it was no skin off Paul's nose....or elsewhere....

Paul was against circumcision as a requirement of salvation. Timothy wasn't circumcised as a requirement for salvation but as a social practice to be more acceptable to the Jews as a fellow Jew.

I called a friend who has a Ph.D. in Biblical philosophy. He can read Hebrew and Greek, so he is most likely as educated as any posters here. I read to him some of the posts here. He said in all his reading and conversations he never heard stuff like you folks posted.

Here are some Scriptures about water baptism. Don't forget, Jesus is the Savior who taught the disciples and apostles to make disciples by baptizing them. Even Holy Spirit filled believers like we read about in Acts 10. They received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. After then Peter ordered them to be baptized in water in obedience to Jesus their Savior. For those who don't know, the new believers were NOT Jews. They were Gentiles!

Matthew 3:13-15
"Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. But John tried to prevent Him, saying, 'I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?' But Jesus answering said to him, 'Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.' Then he permitted Him." Surely Jesus knows what is "fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."

Mark 1:9-11
"In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; and a voice came out of the heavens: 'You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.'” We see here the Fathers is more than pleased. He is "well-pleased".

Romans 6:1-5
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,"

Here's an example of cooperation. Maybe someone can stretch it to trying to work to earn it.

Let's suppose you receive a check in the mail for $10,000 for which you did nothing. How much work did you do to earn it when you went to the mailbox? You go to bank and endorse the check. How much work did you do to earn it by going to the bank and endorsing the check? You get out your I.D. and show it to the teller. How much work did you do to earn it by getting out your I.D.? And yet all of this is required for you to access the funds represented by the free gift. So it is with water baptism. Jesus didn't change His mind about water baptism. By being baptized you are not earning anything. You are cooperating with God's system.

So... why did Paul 'rebaptize' those that were baptized by John?

Ph.D. in Biblical philosophy... dime a dozen... doesn't mean he understands God or Jesus any better. Went through the process and got his paperwork rubberstamped. Most every minister I knew over 40 was a Ph.D.

And my daughter is in the process of getting her EdD. I worked at a major medical college where most everyone was a M.D or Ph.D... a few brilliant ones and some smart ones and some stupid ones... like in all life.

Edit... had a brain fart, daughter is getting her EdD.

Kent

Christianity would be more accurately called Paulism.

True, organized christianity as a religion.

Kent

Organized Christianity as a religion isn’t connecting with a whole lotta people nowadays. It’s just not. It’s possible that a lotta people, including a great many Christians, have misunderstood what the original version of Christianity truly was, and have lost sight of what the original version of Christianity still truly is. The ethic of the early and accurate Christian faith is sorely lacking nowadays.

It’s possible that people aren’t rejecting Jesus and His movement as it truly is, but instead are rejecting a distorted view of what they ‘think’ it is, or has become. So much emphasis is placed by so many nowadays, including a great many Christians, on the orthodoxy itself, and on the “two thousand years of church history and doctrine”…
and on a buncha rules and regulations and requirements that have been added…instead of on the first-generation passion of what it meant to simply strive to be a fully devoted follower of Jesus. The first century approach to advancing the Gospel modeled by Jesus and His apostles and the members of His first century ekklesia is very different from what we see today.

The gospel of grace was, and is, an irresistible message. But a lotta people nowadays resist and snub organized Christianity as a religion. It’s possible that the fault lies not with the Gospel and simply striving to follow Jesus, but with a burdensome emphasis placed on orthodoxy and “two thousand years of church history and doctrine”...a great deal of which was simply and truly and clearly awful for people...and on a buncha rules and regulations and requirements that have been added to the simple ethic that Jesus taught: “A new command I give you, love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my followers, by how you love one another.” A lotta Christians seem to be more embracing of orthodoxy and “two thousand years of church history and doctrine”…and on a buncha rules and regulations and requirements that have been added…than they are of the overriding simple ethic that Jesus taught. It’s an understandable turnoff to a lotta people.

I think I was one of them wat wuz baptized by tha Fire.

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

So, you must be baptized in water to get to the Father? So what happened to 'If you believe and confess with your mouth and repent of your sins and believe in the immaculate conception and that JESUS arose on the third day you will be saved, unless you didn't get dinked in the drink?

Ya, ask Ringman... it's one of the reasons I broke from the church and some of the ridiculous tenets.

Kent

Why are you here. There is no Heaven for you. There is no GOD for you. You made your choice.

We made our choice. We chose to believe and have everlasting life.

Why do you not want us to have everlasting life with Jesus Christ?

Misery loves company. Satan's minions need have no fear of being alone. You will have plenty of company with Soros, Zero,Schietfy, Schumer, Piglosi and Kilery. Sorry, Mr, you don't need me, I prefer Heaven to misery.

Did your learned friend tell you when Satan scattered his seed of tares in with God's seed of wheat?

Did he tell you the Jews didn't kill JESUS as JESUS told us in the Bible?

Did he tell you about the whore in scarlet and purple being the uppers in The CHURCH?

Jesus was a Jew.

I'm here too.

What makes you think that what you believe is actually true? Do you even care about the what the truth may be? Or just happy that your fairy tale makes you feel good and gives you some self-justified excuse to berate others who don't share your beliefs?

I'm here because of an interest in guns and hunting, and this is a good site. And as I also have an interest in science, philosophy and comparative religion, I like to comment..

jaguartx,

We didn't discuss your first statement. As for the second, he wouldn't tell me that because he accepts the Bible as God's Word. Your third point was not part of the conversation. Next time I talk with him I will ask him. He quit attending church because the leadership no longer accepts the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. He probably agrees with your statement.