Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns When Self-Defense Isn’t

Be very careful.
That pedestal is very tall, falling is bound to hurt.


I hope to never attract the attention of a DA.
If I ever do, I hope it is one who lives in the real world, one who understands
that fantasy and perception are not reality.



I'm guessing that you are the type who would prosecute this guy no matter what.

Almost paralyzed with fear?
Reckless. Firing indiscriminately.


Standing on the porch shooting 4 or 5 people in the head, one shot each?
Murder.
He couldn't have been truly in fear and shot that well.


Sorry Counselor,
Real life at 2AM, taking rounds, isn't a law school hypothetical,
or a Billy Bob Badass/Johnny Rambo fantasy.


You have had it explained to you by men (Not I)who have been on the receiving end
of a gun. Yet you cling to your fantasy.

Did you actually read and understand the entire original post which began this thread?

Often, it seems, people who are uncomfortable with the original topic of a conversation attempt to redirect the subject of that conversation to something different, something with which they are more comfortable.

Tennessee must be real glad you moved there
Do you plan to run for DA soon?

RETURNING fire.

Armed Robbery - the Perpetrators are responsible.




GR

Exactly. According to Exchipy's reasoning, no one could ever return fire in a city without being guilty of a crime, which is ridiculous.

Right, in most places the law is that if anyone is shot during an armed robbery, it's on the robbers, not anyone else. That's because the law reasons that the decision to engage in a crime where it's highly likely that someone will be seriously injured or killed is the cause of all reactions to said crime (because such reaction is predictable), including return fire from intended victims. If return fire injures an innocent third party, it's felony murder on the part of the armed robbers. The defender isn't charged with anything. The same rule should apply with any charge, to include reckless endangerment.

Wonder if chipy fits this mold.

NYPD Officers Fire 84 Shots At Suspect, Miss 83 Times

🤣

I seriously believe those charges will not stick

I think most of us "get it" it's 2Am and we're returning fire not starting a fight but engaging in one. Wish Ole boy would've used a shotgun.

I showed thus to our sheriff and he said the charges are BS and if they stick that it's making self defense illegal and if that happens then we're in a sad state of affairs

You make an excellent observation, which is mostly correct. The only two things which are incorrect are:

First, though maybe it should, the rule of felony murder simply does not apply to “any other charge.”

Second, is including “not anyone else” at the end of your first sentence. While the rule of felony murder certainly does make all co-perpetrators criminally liable for any foreseeable death resulting from the commission of the felony, it does not relieve a non-perpetrator shooter from separate criminal liability for any single shot fired with criminal negligence.

So, changing the facts in the original story just a bit, had any of the shots fired by our resident, shooting in the general direction of the felons, but at no one in particular and while his eyes were closed, struck and killed a neighbor, the fleeing felons would be criminally liable for second degree murder in that killing under the rule of felony murder. However the resident would also be criminally liable for involuntary manslaughter in that killing, because it directly resulted from his criminal negligence.

Bet reading that’ll make some here extremely unhappy. But, that’s just the way it is. Criminally negligent conduct unfortunately has legal consequences, and there’s no free pass simply because the criminally negligent act was committed in an attempt to foil a felony.

Remember that none of this addresses all of the potential felony charges which could be brought against the fleeing thieves for what they did.

Academic "fly-[bleep]-in-the-pepper."

He was Fired Upon, by perps in the commission of a violent armed felony.

What don't you understand?




GR

There’s another aspect raised by this story, which hasn’t been mentioned yet. If our resident shooter had remained behind the cover of the car in his driveway, if he had been able to see any perpetrator whom he reasonably believed was about to shoot at him again, and kept his eyes open while he shot at that perpetrator, but unfortunately missed, he would likely be facing no charges. However, if the shot which missed had traveled on to cause damage to an uninvolved person, that person could likely prevail in a lawsuit against our resident shooter to recover the cost of repair, even if our resident shooter was in no way negligent. If you think about this some, you might recognize that, as between the shooter and the uninvolved person who was damaged, it’s the shooter who should rightfully pay for the repair.

What I don’t understand is why you refuse to get the message. I can only hope that you never find yourself in a similar situation. But, if you do, that you remember your rights to counsel and to remain silent.

"If, if, if..."

More Academic BS.

He has the Right to go where he pleases.

In doing so, he was Fired Upon, by perps in the commission of a violent armed felony.

What don't you understand?




GR

Yes, it’s just that simple, isn’t it? It’s such simple ideas which keep the criminal justice and prison systems in business. But, where does that leave an intelligent guy like you?

Obfuscation, yet More Academic BS.

How about... hmmm...

"Armed Response to a Violent Armed Felony" for 100, Alex.

What don't you understand?




GR

As to damage to property from return fire, states differ on that. So long as the shooting is justified, some states nullify liability (on the part of the justified shooter) for property damage that results.

Property damage in a justified shooting is civil

Perhaps he did not have theft insurance on his van? That still does not explain shooting back with eyes closed. Unfortunately he was dumb enough to tell police he shot back with his eyes closed.
As general rule I would run away from gunfire or at least seek cover and stay there. Certainly, I would not leave cover and run toward the shooters.