Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Ron,
I agree on the B&C stocks for the Rugers. I have them on a few Mark II / Hawkeye rifles. I would probably have them on more, specifically the 20" 375 & 416 Rugers. But, they were already bedded in H-S Precision stock by the time the B&C stocks were available. Prior to the changes at McMillan, they were my most used.

On my scales:
416 Ruger Alaskan = 8lbs 1 ounces in a bedded H-S Precision. If I recall correctly the rubber Hogue was 1 or 2 ounces more.

30-06, Ruger Guide Gun, with muzzle brake threads cut off, bedded in a B&C stock = 7lbs 13.2 ounces
I believe this is the same barrel contour as the 375 Rugers. I think the 416 is fatter past the fore end.

The Mark II's & Hawkeye's, 300 Winchester through the 416 Ruger have fit the same. I think B&C gets confused on the 375 & 416's fitting. The confusion seems to be with the Ruger Safari Magnum.

Sir Larry,
I was happily surprised to find the B&C weighed so light on a Ruger Hawkeye.
But it was same weight as the slim walnut stock that came on a factory Hawkeye .35 Whelen,
after the spritely walnut was glass bedded on a fatter .400 Whelen barrel: 1#14oz
The B&C stock had a wide barrel channel that dropped in the No. 5 Shilen sporter too.
No sanding required.

Going by muzzle diameters and comparing to Pac-Nor sporter contours as a close match:

.416 Ruger M77 Hawkeye Alaskan, 20" muzzle diameter = 0.755", about like a Pac-Nor No. 5, barreled action wt. = 5.5 lbs.
.375 Ruger M77 Hawkeye Alaskan, 20" muzzle diameter = 0.675", about like a Pac-Nor No. 3, barreled action wt. = 5.75 lbs.
.375 Ruger M77 Hawkeye African, 23" muzzle diameter = 0.675", about like a Pac-Nor No. 4, barreled action wt. = 6.0 lbs.

Stock weights I have noted on Hawkeyes and Mark II M77 Rugers:

Unmodified/OEM Zytel canoe paddle = 1.5 lbs (24 oz)
Unmodified/OEM Tupperware = 1.75 lbs (28 oz)
Unmodified/OEM Walnut Hawkeye African = 1.75 lbs (28 oz)
Modified Walnut Hawkeye (bedded, pillars, sanded-out barrel channel, hidden cross bolts) = 1.875 lbs (30 oz)
Unmodified B&C Medalist M77 Hawkeye/Mk II = 1.875 lbs (30 oz)
Modified Zytel canoe paddle (recoil pad, bedding, laminated-wood grip panels, Uncle Mike's stud kit) = 2.0 lbs (32 oz)
HS Precision M77 Mk II, glass bedded = 2.5 lbs (40 oz)
Hogue/OEM M77 Hawkeye = 2.5 lbs (40 oz)

Rebore a .416 Ruger Alaskan stainless 20" to .458 caliber and you will lighten it by 0.17 pound = 2.72 ounces.
Put it in an unadulterated canoe paddle stock and it will be 6.83 lbs = 6 lbs 13.28 oz,
complete with open sights, barrel-band sling stud and integral scope bases.

That would be an easy .458/.416 Ruger.
Use a Pac-Nor No. 5 sporter cut to 20" and chamber it for .458 WinMag for same liveliness.
Hubba hubba.







It seems the M77 Hawkeye with a 24" Pac-Nor No. 5 sporter chambered for .458 WinMag
might be a great Creedmost Match rifle.
Lengthening barrel from 20" to 24" adds about 3.2 oz, and using the B&C Medalist stock would add 6 ounces more than the canoe paddle.
Approximate weight becomes 7 pounds and 6.48 ounces, less than 7.5 lbs.
That leaves 2.5 pounds of add-ons to make 10# business weight.

Sir Ron,
Thank you for the simplifying the details on barrel contours.

Perhaps, a PacNor #5 or a duplicate of the 416 Ruger Alaskan is what I am looking for. I am thinking 21" length. Splitting the difference on the indecision of 20 or 22.

For conversational purposes:
I will dig out an early 375 Ruger African, without sling stud barrel band, presently in a B&C and weigh it within the next couple of days.

Pac-Nor has the best elucidation of their contours, including a barrel weight calculator:

https://pac-nor.com/barrel-weight-calculator/

You can even calculate weights with fluting.
No need to go larger and flute, IMHO, just use a No. 5 Sporter and any length from 16" to 26":
muzzle diameter from 0.800" to 0.700" respectively, weights 2.65 lbs to 3.48 lbs respectively,
for a .458-cal Pac-Nor with 1.200" cylinder shank that is 3" long.
Yep, split the difference for 0.750" muzzle diameter at 21" length, and about 3-lbs-2-oz of barrel.
Handy.
Phil Shoemaker's Ol'Ugly has a 21" barrel.

That is the same early Hawkeye I have.
Barreled action weight should be 6.0 lbs.
Subtract that from rifle weight in stock and you get B&C stock weight.
My bare, unloaded rifle with 23" barrel in slim walnut stock weighs 7.75 lbs.
Does your early .375 Ruger rifle in B&C stock weigh 7 pounds and 14 ounces ?
Did the B&C stock have a roomy "magnum" barrel channel ?
I like that.
I would rather fill a barrel channel with epoxy than have to sand and scrape to get a barrel to fit.

Just weighed the early 375 Ruger Hawkeye 23" in the unbedded B&C:
7# 13 oz even, on my scales

The stock does have the roomy magnum barrel channel. I consider the shank / barrel channel fit just right, has some room for barrel bedding. But not excess, as if a meth-headed beaver carved on it.

One old school, also without barrel band sling stud, 416 Ruger Alaskan in a bedded 13-1/4" LOP H-S Precision weighs:
8# 1.1 oz

A 375 Ruger Alaskan, with barrel band sling stud, in a bedded H-S Precision:
8# 0.9 oz

Asante sana-sana Sir Larry,
Your weight for rifle is within 1 ounce of what I got here.
200 lbs at the North Pole becomes 198 lbs at the equator, about a 1% error,
so our difference would be on the order of a quarter percent based on our local gravitational constants corrected for latitude
and centrifugal force effects of Earth's rotation.
Well under a half-ounce by geographic correction.

Even if our 1-ounce difference is in the wrong direction,
This confirms that the B&C Hawkeye stock is indeed light,
having a slim profile and big barrel channel making it very user friendly.
My 1#14-oz versus your 1#13-oz could be instrumental and eyeball related, or amount of paint on stock, etc.
Close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades to 1#13.5-oz, or 1.84375 pounds on average.

With the strength of the B&C Medalist (recently made available)
added to the many strengths of the Ruger M77 Hawkeye,
not the least of which is the integral scope base,
IMHO the top .458 WinMag of the current era would have to be a stainless Hawkeye.

Now what is the ultimate scope to go on that ultimate .458 WinMag ?
That is a tougher nut to crack due to the human factors.
Different buttstrokes and eyebrow strokes for different folks.

Agree, our weight results are definitely close enough.
I also agree that a stainless Mark II / Hawkeye configuration in synthetic stock is about as good as it gets for a rugged, weather resistant, minimal maintenance rifle.

One thing that I noted when handling 23" barrel in the B&C, I have to bare down pretty hard on the stock for the iron sights. Not the case with the 20" versions in a B&C nor in the H-S Precision.
May be unique to me.

Scope wise, since this would not be intended for The Long Range match, I have several on hand choices. All in the lower powered variables. 1.1-4x24's, 1-5x24, 1-6x24, and 1-8x24. The 1.1-4 & 1-5 are more suitable for my purposes.

Scope selection is an interesting question. Due to available scopes on hand and intended use for the 458 WM Hawkeye I settled on a Leupold 1-4x25 mm mounted on vertically split lever QD Warne steel rings.

Initially mounted it on Ruger lever QD rings but the front ring lever actually loosened under recoil. We’ll see how this arrangement holds at the next range session.

I like the straight 30mm tube 1-4,5,6,8. They usually give me adequate magnification and low light use for the terrain and distances that I moose hunt. Though I have used 1.5-6x42 on a 416. It presently have a 1-6.3x24 on it, which will probably be a permanent fixture. Currently I have a 20" 375 Ruger with a straight tube 1-8x24 and a 23.5" with a 1.5-8x42.

Yep, the scope choices are a mud pit of their own. I think my 458 Winchester will probably get 30mm tubed 1.1-4x24's.

Edit:
I experienced one 300 Winchester Hawkeye rifle that had issues with the front ring mounting. It appeared either the top rib and/or recessed depths were out of tolerance. I tried different sets of 2 different brands of quick detachable and none would securely tighten on the front ring. Deceivingly close, but not secure. The standard as issued Ruger rings worked without issue.

Occasionally the Ruger ring main mounting bolt may need some clean-up to be secure, torqued properly.
Have seen it supposedly happen on the internet, but never to me.
I suppose "it happens" as Forrest Gump would say.

Here is an idea for a little more versatility of scope, compared to the 2.5x20mm Leupold 6.5-ouncer which is always a good choice:
The Leupold FX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 mm with Pig-Plex or MOA-Ring reticle.
It only weighs 9.6 ounces.
If the Creedmoor 1874 shooters could do it with iron sights of 1X
surely the Creedmost 2024 shooter can make do with 4X for a 3-square-feet bullseye at 1000 yards.
Hard to find 5" of eye relief as well as the requisite durability.
Learn to tolerate tunnel vision parallax reduction.

For less than $300, get a dozen for the price of some hogs.
Always have a backup sighted in.

A little piggy can be nicer than a hog in many ways, for the non-visually impaired.

Pig-Plex for all-around hunting and make-do:









MOA-Ring might be better for Creedmost Matches:

The Hawkeye Alaskan contour at 20” would work in 458. My current Alaskan was rebored from 375 to 404 (0.423” groove diam). There’s sufficient wall thickness left out to the muzzle for a 458, but not for a threaded sight mounting, as I recently discovered. Easily solved problem by either using a rear NECG receiver mounted Ruger peep sight or a silver soldered RS base with a blade insert on the barrel.

For the hardcore Hawkeye fans, the Ruger factory RS is usable with a simple tapped and threaded steel mounting block. Will try that combination later next week on the 460 G&A -secured with Loctite Black Max 480- and will post some pics, if it survives under recoil.

Sir Ron,

Have you had good long term results with the Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4×20 on one of your 458 WMs? Does it stand up to the recoil?

Like the circle reticle as it looks like it would do well close in work.

Sir Khulu,
The VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20mm Pig-Plex and MOA-Ring from Leupold are a new discovery for me.
I am old school with about a half-dozen each of the 2.5x20mm, 1.5-5x20mm, and 2.5-8x36mm under my belt.
None have ever failed me with abuse up to full-power .500 A-Square use.
Common traits: light weight, smaller-than-hog objective lens and 1" tube, adequate eye-relief.
I'd like to get a half-dozen of the newer 1.5-4x20mm VX-Freedom for $299.99 each and give them a whirl.

Sadly the Nikon scopes are discontinued. Michael McCourry rated them better than Leupold for toughness.
One of my 3-9x40mm SlugHunter scopes started to extrude the little O-ring buffer at the front of the 40mm objective lens,
after 400 rounds or more of up to 500-grains at +2300 fps .458 WM+.
It still shot tiny groups and tracked true to adjustment to the end.
Nikon replaced it for free with the P3 Shotgun scope that obsoleted the SlugHunter.
Now Nikon is no more in rifle scope biz.

Vortex ? Resurrected Tasco and then some, made in Phillipines.
Nothing there is as attractive as the Leupold 1.5-4x20mm with ring reticles and MOA trim.

SWFA has a 9.5-ounce 2.5-10x32mm "Ultralight" scope but eye-relief is only 3.35"-2.56" !!!
Should be good on a .22LR rimfire.

I strayed from the .458 WinMag over the two decades from 1984 to 2004.
As late as 2003 I bought a .450 Dakota.
I even thought it was cool to turn a Whitworth Mk X .458 WinMag into a .458 Lott,
ditto what I did to a CZ 550 Magnum .458 WinMag in my prodigal days.

A factory .460 Wby Mk V lasted from 1984 to 1996,
sold after a .460 Wby was built on a BBK-02 action in 1993, by Kelly Olson of Eagle River, AK.
Kelly was an excellent gunsmith, of proud Norwegian heritage from Minnesota.
I lost interest in the .460 Wby after getting a couple of .500 A-Square copycats done in 1999-2000
by Kevin Jenkins of Murfreesboro, TN, excellent young smith then, since turned into an MD pathologist, bless his heart.

That BBK-02 .460 Wby got re-barreled into a .470 Mbogo in 2003 when I met Master Gunsmith Rusty McGee.
The 26" take-off barrel got set back a full 3" and installed on a CZ 550 Magnum.
Rusty did that in 2004, cutting, re-threading, wildcat chambering, and stock work.
Previous metalwork by Kelly Olson included barrel hardware and muzzle machining that was unmolested.
Kelly Olson's stamp was unfortunately lost, but not forgotten, in the breech bobbing:

















That was the last .458-cal stray cat I brought home until I discovered some chamber rings in a Whitworth Mk X .458 WinMag
and was driven mad enough to re-chamber it to .458/.416 Ruger.
The "45/.338 Lapua" is named "Thumper" in honor of Ted Williams.
It is a shooter.

The above was presented for the technical aspects in considering potential Creedmost Match rifles.
At 9.5 pounds it might be tough to make the weight limit with a scope on Thumper.
Placing it in a B&C Medalist stock might be over the 10-pound limit even with the 2.5x20mm Leupold in CZ rings.
Nevertheless, I am still very fond of Thumper.

Anyway, Ms. Bobbarella, a CZ 550 Magnum with a No. 5 Shilen of 25" length chambered for .458 WinMag is also to be considered:



Might be neat to cut her down to 23" and install same sights as on Thumper, but use muzzle threading for accessories.
Probably will lose about 30 fps MV by shortening from 25" to 23".
Ms. Bobbarella has done 2627 fps MV with the Woodleigh 400-gr PPSN from 25" barrel.
She ought to be able to do 2600 fps with the 404-gr Shock Hammer from a 23" barrel as a .458 WM+.

I have a couple of the SWFA scopes. Super light, quality not as good as Leupold 2.5-8 that it competes with for me. I have one on a 6.5C (Tikka T3X) that has worked very well so far and another on a Tikka T1X. I would not go above 308 recoil with them, but if your form is good, they will not bite.

I'm still waiting patiently for my 458 Mauser to return from the smith. Once it does, I have a Nightforce 1-4 that I'm going to try on it. If that doesn't work out for some reason, then it will either get a fixed Leupold, or a 2.5-8, IDK. 8X is overkill for my intended use, but 2.5-4 or 5 should be pretty handy.

Sir Roo,
I liked the NXS 1-4x24mm except I read it weighs 17 ounces and has ER of 3.5" max ?
I could make that work, however. No scope has ever made me bleed. Knock wood.
I just mount them forward and make do with the tunnel vision,
assuming it helps me reduce parallax when I get the tunnel centered.
The old Nikon 3-9x40mm shotgun scopes had 5" ER and weighed 15.2 ounces.
You pay for the increased eye relief with decreased FOV, about same as the tunnel vision with a short eye relief scope.
I can make do.

I don't remember the eye relief, but 3.5 does seem short. I'm checking with a friend there since I recall that the scope was designed as a DG scope originally. Mine weighs 16 oz, so no question it is heavier than my other options, but my Mauser 458WM is not designed to be as light as possible. I just mount everything for correct eye relief and then hold on! Haven't been hit yet, fingers crossed!