Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters A Close-in Deer Rifle

And you and I killing a bunch of small Bucks and a whole lot of Does....means little as far as our being good Deer hunters..


The good ones kill the big ones, and they do it on a regular basis.

The most successful deer hunter I ever knew used a .30-30. Course he didn't let bag limits get in the way of his fun and routinely killed 4-5 bucks every season. He had killed well over 200 bucks right here in NY before he died. Those who don't use one tend to underestimate their effectiveness and suitability for woods whitetails. I have many scoped bolt actions from which to choose but most often a .30-30 will be in my hands if I'm going to hunt the woods. It will do everything that needs doing to kill whitetails.

Depends on what you're after now doesn't it ? I have killed my share of big ones but meat has always been my priority. I have 6 good ones and two exceptional {for where I hunt} on my living room walls and four more in the computer/gun/reloading room. Add in the turkey fan/beard mounts, the fish and small game mounts and I really don't have room or a pressing need for more.

Most successful one I know uses a bow or a .30-06. Not many can pull back a 100 pound bow. He likes to blow thru both shoulders. He most likely would be as successful with 50 pounds.

Yes it does… and no reason one shouldn’t be happy shooting the easy ones. Like I do most of the time.

However, there is that player and fan analogy Those that are better than good are the players. And even in your area, they would constantly find the ones others most often only stumble into.

While getting all the meat they need with your multiple Doe tags. 😉

There is no doubt I could have killed more big ones if I had wanted to. I saw many over the years that I had to let walk because I had already filled my buck tags. The limiting factor has always been that I like to kill deer very much and lots of them. I like venison and I like my freezers full of it every year, no ifs ands or buts. To this day I'll still shoot the first 2.5 year old buck I see, even when I know there's a bigger buck in the area. No regrets and I don't give a damn if the antler crazy, QDM geeks like it or not. I really never did get those guys anyway. Rich fuggs that don't need the meat and probably don't even like it but they'll try to force QDM on everybody, spend a fortune on land, leases, game cams, stands, seed, feed, etc., etc. and basically do everything to exclude competition from their hunting grounds to make it as easy to get big antlers as they can and then beat their chest over what a great hunter they are. Yeah right, get out there on public land and do without all that crap on your own two feet and we'll talk. What a drag.

Blackheart,

Dunno what difference there is in killing deer or any other big game at 50 yards or less in thick cover, but apparently believe because you do it with New York whitetails that you're some kind of amazing.

For your info, when I started hunting in Montana it wasn't legal to kill more than two deer a year, and sometimes only one. These days you can kill more, but generally in my specific area its 2-3. I could drive around the state (which is 800 miles long) and kill maybe 9, seven of which would have to be whitetail does. But there are too many other big game animals to do that--and some of them fill far more freezer space than a whitetail doe.

I have taken 9 big game animals in Montana in one year, but aside from a whitetail or two, they included mule deer, elk, black bear and pronghorns. Many of those were taken at 50 yards or less--and have been in other years

Have also taken as many as 20-30 deer-sized or larger big game animals in one year, when also hunting other states, or sometimes countries. Some of these were when culling deer in the U.S. in various places, especially Texas, or similar-sized animals elsewhere in thick cover.

Sorry you have trouble 6x in your variable scope. I have never called it the best magnification for big game hunting, whether for deer or anything else, but back when variables were less reliable I hunted with 6x a lot, and found it worked far better than most hunters believe, even a close ranges--partly because it provides a better view through vegetation than lower-powered scopes, and especially iron sights. That's not just my experience either.

I have a 6x Redfield Widefield on a 223, jumped quite few pigs using it. It works really well.

hanco,

I bet it does!

There's also nothing like pigs for getting lots of shooting experience.

Yes, you're the greatest, most experienced hunter and marksman that ever lived and you should no doubt take every opportunity to remind everyone of that every chance you get. Feel better now ? When I started deer hunting here you were only allowed one buck with rifle per year and you MIGHT get a party permit to share with three other hunters allowing one of you to shoot a doe. Other than that, the only way you could legally shoot more than one was with an archery tag and you were only allowed one buck OR one doe with that. Now we can shoot one buck with rifle, another buck with bow, crossbow or muzzleloader, a doe with bow, crossbow or muzzleloader and get up to four doe tags, two in the first draw and two more in the second. We are also allowed to have two more doe tags signed over from another hunter. It has been that way now since the 90's and since my dad, brothers and wife are always willing to sign over some doe tags I often end up being able to kill two bucks and seven does for a total of nine per season. I usually stop at 6 or 7 because that's all we need but will sometimes shoot more if I know somebody that wants the meat. I have occasionally shot more on nuisance wildlife tags but I don't count that as hunting.

I have never claimed that--or as I pointed out before that 6x is the ideal scope magnification. (If you can find either claim in print or on the Internet, please let me know.) I also know plenty of hunters, outfitters, guides and and shooters more experienced than I am in certain aspects--and have learned plenty from them.

Have also learned a lot from being a guide and going on many hunts with several other hunters, allowing me to observe not just how they do in the field but the results from a wide variety of cartridges, bullets, scopes, etc. One of these was a month-long African cull-hunt where close to 200 big game animals were taken. I only took 13, but observed around a third of the other animals being killed, and interviewed many of the other dozen hunters on their results.

You, on the other hand, do apparently know everything about hunting/shooting close-cover deer from your personal experiences with whitetails in your particular region of one state.

Well thanks, I have killed and seen killed a shytload of the things. You aren't the only one who has hunted with a bunch of people using a bunch of different equipment and tactics over the years.

Have found hunting whitetails is always interesting--and teaches something no matter where they live. Plus, they're very good to eat!

It is clear Blackheart has forgotten more about hunting than the rest of us will ever know!!

Blackheart is a old smelly flap.

My god, we are now arguing about what is most capable close in rifle? Pick anyone, you can kill a deer with a pellet rifle close in. I can't believe this has gone on 21 pages?

Killing ship isn't that hard at close rage. Long range gets difficult.

i have hunted in swPA and northern WV (Fairmont to Clarksburg area). most of which i hunt is brush covered wood like this...



the longest deer (doe) i shot was 365+/- yards on my friend's field. i can count my fingers and toes, have a few left over, that i have shot deer from 100 to 300 yards. i don't or can't remember the number of deer that i shot under 100 yards or 50 yards. i used to hunt for antlers, but i found out that antler soup ain't that good. i am a meat hunter now, besides which, i am disabled too (i had a stroke, right arm/leg are kaput). and Mule Deer, i can remember only 2 old bucks that were anything but tasty!!!

my first deer (small spike) was about 7 or 8 feet and i got it with a Winchester top eject m94 in 30-30 with open sights. i did a bunch of killing deer with the 30-30. my furthest shot with the 30-30 was about 175 yards, give or take. i put her in the safe for about 20 -25 years and then i sent her to JES Reboring and he did his magic to make her 35/30-30. then i put on a Williams FP aperture sight and i have got 2 does and a buck.

my next rifle was a new Remington m700 Mountain rifle in 30'06 with a 4x Bushnell or Tasco, whatever it was, it was cheap. i killed a number of deer with, but it just wasn't me. so i traded it for a new Remington m700 BDL and 3-9x Swift. i traded and sold it for an ADL and then CDL and then i traded it to a Savage m116 ss adjustable muzzle brake in '06. then i traded it for a Remington m7 in 7-08 with a 3-9x Swift. a nice little rifle that deer hate. i bought and traded many more rifles. i bought alot of 3-9x Swift scopes (old ones that had an over-the-counter warranty.

i set the Swift scopes to 4x and that is way i hunted, 6 - 9x was for targets. i hunted 4x for years and then my eyes got bad and then it 6x. then 10 years or so ago, i was gifted an 1898 Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag from my grandpap. i could not see the open sights, so i an Redfield 102K aperture sight and it was good as rain. when i was 18yo, i was in the US Army and thats when i 'found" the aperture sight. i luved m16a2 apertures, but for years, i just plain forgot about them. my son holds the record (me and 2 sons) for the furthest shot on deer (doe), 173 yards (laser range finder) with a Krag using 165gr Ranch Dog and H4198. i have old Redfield's and Lyman's aperture sights on a 7.65x53, 8x57, 30-40 Krag, '06 and a couple more. while i have only one Williams aperture.

i can't see (danged eyes) the target or the deer using open sights, but i can see the target/deer using the aperture sight. when i had the 35/30-30 with open sights during deer season. i was sitting in my spot when a doe came within 30+/- yards from me. i put the rifle on my shoulder and lined up the shot, until...........i couldn't see the doe. she was like a brown blur to me. when i lifted my head off the sights, she was there. when i put the sights back on, brown blur. she walked away from me and i had the eye doctor's appointment the next day. i have glasses now, they are a "cure" for nearsightedness.

i have a story that i did about 12+ years ago. i have a Ruger No. 1 in 270 Winchester with a 3x9x Swift. she can part your hair at 400 yards. she is a shooter!!! anyway, i have her out one season and i'm trying to still-hunt for deer. then i see the deer and it is about 10 or 12 feet. the 8 point was screened by brush (see the picture on my post and then you know about brush). i put the rifle on my shoulder and i could see the deer. i was trying to thread the needle to shoot the deer in the chest. i finally found the spot on the brush that i could shoot the buck high shoulder in the lungs. so i did and the buck ran. i waited about 1/2 hour and then i began tracking the buck. where i first shot it all i can find is a little bit of brown fur. luckily, i was on a deer trail thru the brush, when 20 yards later, i found him. i took the round out and then i seen 6x on the scope. well, can i imagine that, i used a 6x on the scope. i should have put in 4x but.... now i have 2-7x Leopold's and 2-7x Vortex's. 2x is nice for me to take hunting, but 6x is for targets/deer.

i have hunted compound and crossbow for years, but i still like my rifles. i gave up hunting archery about 3+/- years ago, it got to be pain using crossbow with one arm.

When they pass out tags like penny candy, and even to the point they let family pass them around, there must be a lot of Deer to be killed …. It can’t be all that difficult to pad your numbers with 5-7 Does per year.

Sounds more like shooting than hunting. Similar to Doves, which is a shoot more than a hunt.

Since I'm the OP, I kind of hate being the turd in the punchbowl, but after reading through all this, I realized my own experience was worth mentioning.

I have not done much pussyfooting in the deer woods recently. The lingering neuropathy in my feet will probably preclude it for at least this season. However, I did do quite a bit of time early on in Ohio and Indiana. There really was nothing better than 12 Gauge. Even when I moved my hunting to Kentucky, I still tried to spend at least one day playing Buckeye old-schooler.



I give you 3 examples:


This is a Remington 1100 with a smoothbore barrel and rifle sights. This is my first and overall favorite. I used to shoot everything with this: dove, turkey, trap, skeet-- albeit with different barrels.



Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel. What the 1100 could do at 50 yards, this one could duplicate at 100 yards. It is my turkey gun most years.



When my buddy, Big Bob, died, I inherited "Luigi." It's a Stoeger SXS with Mauser sights welded onto the rib. I still haven't had this one out.

It dawned on me that we've kind of had this discussion before:



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JBabcock
Campfire Regular

Reged: 12/07/02
Posts: 560
Loc: Auburn, Wash.
Re: Brush Guns [Re: shaman]
#1062925 – 10/30/06 07:35 AM

I think the whole concept of a “brush gun” is nothing more than a myth.

I use my bolt actions for all hunting, including heavily wooded terrain. There, I can pull the trigger on it just as fast as I can any other kind of gun. And most times, you only get one shot. I can run the bolt fast enough if needed.

shaman
Campfire Ranger

Reged: 12/28/02
Posts: 1368
Loc: Neave, KY
Re: Brush Guns [Re: JBabcock]
#1063018 – 10/30/06 08:37 AM

Then I would not change a thing. Some things just work. You’re lucky enough to stop right where you are. Me? I gave up all my other vices, and I got married. I got bored with college football, I’m lousy with cars. It was either deer rifles or a saltwater aquarium.

I personally find that when I walk out to one of my bow hunting stands with my bolt 30-06 and my beanfield scope and try to hunt, I keep hearing sniggers. It may be just the wind. It may be my imagination but it might be the deer. On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing the other end of my pasture without binos. As a result, I’ve got to pick a venue and take a rifle to hunt it.

Probably my best overall deer rifle is the Savage 99 in 308. If I was going somewhere where I did not know what I run into, it would be either my primary gun for deer-sized stuff or certainly the backup. It comes as close any I would have to the one-gun rifle. The Winnie bolt gun in Ought-Six comes in #2, but it has a big honkin’ scope on it leftover from my days using it as a varmint gun. Close-in, you have your choice of which small patch of hair you want to see.

I am a hunter that shoots, rather than a shooter than hunts, so I don’t have all that many closets filled with deer rifles, but the subject of what makes a good deer rifle intrigues me. It’s a fascination instead of an obsession. I can quit at any time, honest.

The Shaman’s Myth of the Brush Gun– the real one

You’re right in the end: the brush gun is really just a myth. On the other hand, I can pick up my 1100 and a fresh box of Sluggers and walk into the cedars and something magical happens. The deer are sniggering as much as ever, but for one brief Saturday afternoon I’m away from the shaving mirror and me and the brush gun can slip into the woods.

I can stalk the deer and when I look down that 1100 is still as bright and shiny as the day I bought it. The Remington Sluggers are just as green, and as long as I stay along the ridge, and maybe angle downhill a little bit and don’t try to go back it can be like twenty-something years ago back in Hocking Hills on Opening Day. The only thing missing is the stray shots zipping through the treetops. Those I don’t miss at all.

Of course the 1100 is starting to get a little dented, but I’m not wearing my reading glasses. I don’t see the wear on the stock, or the lines on my hands. Along about sunset, I start trudging back up the ridge and as long as I do it slow enough the myth keeps working. Finally, I get back home and put my brush gun up on the rack next to Moose’s Garand and Angus’ Mosin Nagant– my sons don’t seem to mind the weight. They’d schlep a boat anchor through the woods if they thought it would get them a deer.

Once in a great while I catch some deer laughing a little to hard or too long out there in the cedars, and it makes the trip worthwhile by reaffirming the myth and topping off the freezer. KY rifle season ends, and I don’t feel bad about not buying an Ohio tag and joining the orange army the next Monday for the start of shotgun season. I put the 1100 away and don’t think about it until next year.

Pretty hard to find a topic that hasn’t been done to death multiple times. Usually some new blood brings one up and we pounce like hyenas on a chance to preach on it yet again, like a pastor giving the annual sermon on tithing……