Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Ron,

Though I completely agree with you about horizontal split rings being superior, I have used the vertically split Talley's for many years without issue. On some guns they just fit better than pic rings. What happened to yours?

Sir Ron,

Inspired by your observations about the Leupold Freedom 1-4x25 I’ve been looking for one and found my preferred model, the MOA Ring reticle, today.




It’s now mounted on the Hawkeye African hybrid 458 WM on the steel Warne rings. I’m staying with the principle that light scopes tend to fare better in hard recoiling DGRs. IIRC This scope weighs about the same as the reliable old Leupold 2-7x28 Compacts I’ve used for many years.

Plan to sight it in this week and will also check the new FS as a backup.

Those new Talley mounting nuts look a lot like a slight variant of the Ruger ring mounting nuts.

Now that I think about it, the Talley’s follow many of the Ruger integral-base mounting system principles - clamp mounting base, recoil lug and double torx screws on the horizontally split rings.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Well now, a not-too-heavy, none-too-light, teeter totter balanced on a central single base,
with a handy little lever to lock it in place, we hope.

Sir Roo,
I still use Talley vertical splits in a couple of cases, where the firearm was already equipped for such.
I go easy on them.
I will dig up some broken Talley ring pics. To be continued ...

I see this as the only good reason to use the Warne vertical splits instead of the Leupold QRW horizontal splits:



.500 Mbogo No. 1 took cape buffalo with above above setup.
.510-cal./450-grainers at 2650 to 2850 fps.

9.5 ounces is great, advertised at 9.6 ounces, hooray !

I got the same scope with the MOA-Ring reticle, will be trying it on the FN M98 Creedmost .458 WinMag.

Reminder of why I like the small objective lens with its lighter weight and lesser inertia and momentum in recoil:

My final comments for today on scopes and mounts on a .458 WinMag:
There is no excuse for a scope sliding in the rings: Use silicone adhesive inside the rings.
With the QRW, only the lower ring half need be glued.
This makes disassembly and cleanup easy if your long-surviving scope needs to be changed in ring placement.
That only happens if it is not on a Near Mfg rail.





The .470 Mbogo above does 2700 fps with 500-grainers.
It can also be loaded down to .470 NE ballistics, using same loads as used in a .470 NE.
Same case capacity.
The lightning bolt checkering pattern on the forearm is my first and last self-taught checkering job.

You still need to use the silicone, but not the J-B Weld with a Near Mfg rail.
Using J-B Weld on a Near Mfg rail would really be gilding the lilly.

Sir Ron,

Your depiction of the Holosun as a teeter totter was exactly how it struck me when I first mounted it. As a result I mounted it on a much lower QD mount. I reverted to the taller OEM mount because it has 2 recoil lugs which now fit into the modified Warne base while the lower base relied solely on the cross bolt for the dual purpose of tightening the base claw and locating the mount on a single cross slot. The thing didn’t inspire confidence in long lasting stability.

The problem that developed with the lower base was loosening of the original front 6-48 screw. That’s the reason I converted the bases and the receiver to 8-40 screws and glued the front mount with Black Max 480.

This week’s single range session consisted of 21 rounds of 500 grain solids at 2400 fps MV. Neither the base nor the QR lever, which locks in place and is purposely positioned forward have failed to perform as designed. I’m not concerned about the optic yet as it has been tested under much higher forces than to ~80 lbs-ft recoil the 460 generates in this rifle.

Understand the concerns and rationale while learning from the sage council you’re providing.

Ron, Wildcatter264 - thanks for your ideas and information. I haven't made any decisions yet. I have an Aimpoint Micro-H1 that sits closer to the rail and only weighs 3 oz. The Trijicon website says an RMR weighs 1.2 oz, thought they give the same weight with and without a Picatinny rail mount. Lots to think about...

IMHO the most significant factors in deciding which red/green dot optic to select and how to mount it are the intended use of the rifle and the recoil level.

Though it’s a bit more expensive and larger/heavier than the micro optics I opted for the Holosun 530G because I use my DGR in the field where dirt, brush, etc are always an issue for the sights. it’s a closed emitter system so stuff between the projector and screen will not put it out of commission. The titanium body, electronic components and mechanicals seem to hold up well to physical forces and battery life and replacement are very favorable.

If the rifle were predominantly intended for the shooting range I would have probably gone with a light, open emitter model and the mounting problem would have been much simpler.

The most significant hurdle for me to overcome was the decision to mount any optics on a close quarters DGR. Scopes - even low power non magnifiers - constrict FOV in the periphery, especially the strong side - and can pose a real problem with target fixation, even shooting with both eyes open. The non-magnifyiging digital projectors reduce the problem significantly but don’t eliminate it completely.

My preference for large caliber DGRs is still iron open sights. However, as my PH observed, I grew up, like most modern American hunters, shooting with a scope and since we all revert to our training, an optic seems worth considering. YMMV

Check out this Custom (Winchester Custom Shop or Unknown Custom Gunsmith ? )
Super Express .458 WinMag of Sir Woods.
Will the mystery ever be solved, before .458 WinMag history becomes .458 WinMag archeology ?

I'm pretty sure that if Dirty Harry went to Alaska he would want one of these in his kit,
and I want dibbs on it should Sir Woods grow tired of it:











The only way I could improve it for my tastes would be to put a Near Mfg. Picatinny on it
and pack an assortment of optics and a peep sight to interchange on the rail for backup.
Note that I said for my tastes,
and that YMMV as Sir Khuku said.

Sir Woods has the littermate to the Cabela's .458 WinMag Super Grade here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...er-super-grade-458-question#Post18554085

Mine and others.
Must have been a bad bit of metallurgy and/or design problems.
Going to cross-slot bases and horizontal split rings is one way to improve.

Other folks too:

On a lighter note,
the 380-gr Lehigh monometal copper FN bullet from Lehigh,
loaded by Buffalo Bore for the .45-70 Gov't. is sufficient for cape buffalo.
This is according to "Tank" Hoover in the AUGUST 2023 issue of GUNS magazine.
Tank went on safari with Tim Sundles.
Tank killed the buffalo with one shot at "just over" 100 yards range,
using a peep-sighted Ruger-Marlin.
MV must have been "just over" 2000 fps.





And the Lottites say the .458 WinMag is useless ?

Sir Khulu,
Sorry about the "Sir Khuku" typo above.
Totally accidental.
It would take a comedian with more talent than I have to do that on purpose.

That Buffalo Bore, 45-70 380 Lehigh is hauling arse. I am hoping to get a hand-loaded meager, in comparison, 1850 fps in my 20" 45-70. Which will still should be more than sufficient for my purposes, even with the 18" barrels. I have some of these BB factory loads to chronograph and compare, once I get other projects done.

Of course, I have these 380's loaded for the range trials in both 458 Winchester & Lott. Time and favorably weather have been an issue this summer. I believe this may be the ultimate all-around flat point solid for anything North American sized.

I am very grateful for Michael's load development and testing of this bullet in the 458's.

Sir Larry,
Same situation here with weather and
the figurative creeks having risen.
We'll gitterdun eventually.
I own more .45-70 Gov't. than .458 WinMag rifles.
Though I am working on correcting that,
it may never happen,
and I'll be no worse off either way.

Sir Ron,
I have JM marked Marlins in 20" blued and walnut, 20" stainless / laminate, and another unfired as issued blue/walnut. I carried the older blued out this spring for a walk-about. The first time it has been out it many years. The unmolested one was going to be a .50 conversion, that I decided not to do.

It is a toss up for me between unscoped versions of lever guns and bolt rifles with 20" barrels. I guess it depends on the day. I hiked around with the older blued one quite a bit, 20 or so years ago. But, my heart is more into the bolt rifles. I have a few revolver cartridge levers but they are mostly in the fun-gun category. Heck, I actually have some other levers. But, still prefer bolt rifles.