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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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back in 1893, Peter-Paul Mauser came out with the 1893 Spanish Mauser in 7x57. altho it lost the Spanish American War, it beat the snot out of 45-70 and the 30-40 Krag. the Brits had a hard time during the Second Boer War. the 7x57 has killed game, including elephants (WDM Bell killed about 800 elephants with the 7 Mauser).
i have killed many deer using the custom FN '98 Mauser in a 20" Douglas barrel in 7x57. my Winchester m94 in 30-30 (which JES Reboring made 35/30-30) is #1. my son has the 7x57 now. i have 3 7x57, 1908 Brazilian, 24/30 Venezuelan and the '16 Spanish Mauser. The reason the 7x57 "beat the snot" out of the .45-70 and .30-40 in those wars was NOT the cartridge, but the clip-fed magazine of the 1893, far quicker to keep shooting than the trapdoor .45-70 single-shot, and the side-loaded magazine of the Krag. I have taken close to 20 species of big game around the world with the 7x57, but the cartridge itself ain't magic, as my wife Eileen and I have done the same thing with the .308 Winchester--which might be the modern equivalent of the 7x57, but with far more widely available ammo. In fact in my several hunting trips to Europe have encountered far more .308s than either the 7x57, or the 8x57--which many Americans still claim is the ".30-06 of Europe." In fact have only seen one 7x57 and one 8x57 in the hands of the dozens of European hunters and guides I've hunted with. yes, it was a clip fed 7x57. but the 30 Army was hand fed, until it got to the Gatling gun. we learned about suppressing fire on San Jaun and Kettle Hill. i like the 30-40 Krag. i have a sporterized 1898 Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag that was handed down by my grandpap. he got it from his father. my dad (RIP) and my late uncle had it until they got new rifles. it is one of my go-to rifles. i use a 165gr Ranch Dog with H4198 that goes 1926fps. i have killed 7 or 8 deer and my oldest son has killed 5 or 6 deer with it. i have another sporterized Krag and two Krag actions sans bolt. 1st Krag 2nd Krag Krag actions i owned a 308 Winchester (Remington m760) and it was a good rifle. i like the '91 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53, what i consider the Grandfather of the 308. i had 3 of them, but i gave two of them to my sons'. it's a shame that the Europeans do that to the 7 Mauser. it is a great old cartridge that every handloader has to have. i haven't bought factory for about 25ish years. the only thing that was made by the factory ammo is or was my dad's '06 cartridges, 180gr Remington RN.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
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Joined: Jan 2023
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Campfire Member
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Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning will take care of itself. Coach Bryant.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,625 Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,201
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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.260 REM, 7mm-08 REM, and .17 Fireball…all cartridges that Remington introduced and then failed miserably to market and support.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,313
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,435
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
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Tagging Bobby Tomek's post. Good stuff. Thanks!
"Keep your mouth shut, work hard. Life is tough. Work through it.” -- Stetson Bennett, Quarterback, Georgia Bulldogs
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Amen. Plus the 25-20. Two of the coolest rounds ever made.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
.260 REM, 7mm-08 REM, and .17 Fireball…all cartridges that Remington introduced and then failed miserably to market and support. .280 Rem , 6mm Rem
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,547
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,547 |
back in 1893, Peter-Paul Mauser came out with the 1893 Spanish Mauser in 7x57. altho it lost the Spanish American War, it beat the snot out of 45-70 and the 30-40 Krag. the Brits had a hard time during the Second Boer War. the 7x57 has killed game, including elephants (WDM Bell killed about 800 elephants with the 7 Mauser).
i have killed many deer using the custom FN '98 Mauser in a 20" Douglas barrel in 7x57. my Winchester m94 in 30-30 (which JES Reboring made 35/30-30) is #1. my son has the 7x57 now. i have 3 7x57, 1908 Brazilian, 24/30 Venezuelan and the '16 Spanish Mauser. The reason the 7x57 "beat the snot" out of the .45-70 and .30-40 in those wars was NOT the cartridge, but the clip-fed magazine of the 1893, far quicker to keep shooting than the trapdoor .45-70 single-shot, and the side-loaded magazine of the Krag. I have taken close to 20 species of big game around the world with the 7x57, but the cartridge itself ain't magic, as my wife Eileen and I have done the same thing with the .308 Winchester--which might be the modern equivalent of the 7x57, but with far more widely available ammo. In fact in my several hunting trips to Europe have encountered far more .308s than either the 7x57, or the 8x57--which many Americans still claim is the ".30-06 of Europe." In fact have only seen one 7x57 and one 8x57 in the hands of the dozens of European hunters and guides I've hunted with. Well said!
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,406
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,406 |
old pine: The 7mm TCU is even better. More case capacity and easier cheaper case availability. 120 grain bullet at 2600 fps.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,406
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,406 |
Bobby: I wish I had known about your success with the 30/30 in the Contender. I would not have had Bellm rechamber a 30/30 Contender barrel to 308 Bellm. Yes I get a 150 grain Ballistic Tip to 2608 fps in a carbine barrel but it is not worth the effort.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,381
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,381 |
Underrated rifle: all of the M70 push feeds
Underrated cartridge (on 24 CF): the great 270 Winchester The G series pushfeeds are used by us a lot. They are available for very attractive prices and are as well made as any Model 70. My favorites are the Rangers. Oddly, while I agree the .270 is underrated I have never owned one I kept long enough to shoot. Lots of .30-06's and .243's though.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,387 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
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Bobby: I wish I had known about your success with the 30/30 in the Contender. I would not have had Bellm rechamber a 30/30 Contender barrel to 308 Bellm. Yes I get a 150 grain Ballistic Tip to 2608 fps in a carbine barrel but it is not worth the effort. I've had three 30-30 AI barrels and even rechambered one to the .309 JDJ before realizing the good ol' 30-30 did all I could ever need -- and with ease and simplicity. Particularly with some of the newer powders like LeverEvolution and CFE223, the 30-30 can impress. From a 24" barrel, 2500 fps with 150s is within the realm of possibility and puts you insignificantly behind that .308 Bellm. I used a book load of CFE223 with the 150 grain Speer GD Bonded-Blackout bullet and got 2469 fps -- and it was very mild. That same charge with a 150 grain BT churned up a tad over 2500 fps. Another overlooked Contender round is the .300 Savage. No forming/fireforming is needed, and as long as you keep loads around book minimums, it's perfectly safe for the little TC frame. And a 125 grain bullet at 2700+ fps is nothing to sneeze at. Some have asked about the "taper" of the .300 Savage and if it was a good choice for the Contender, but the case has minimal taper and features a geometry much like the highly-heralded AI chamberings. Below, from left, are the 7mm Bullberry, the .300 Savage and the 30-30 Winchester.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,653 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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25 years ago I would have said the Savage 110.
22 LR. Yup. In 30-06. Half the cost of rem, win, etc. The '06 will do anything. But neither was sexy at the time.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,380 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
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Winchester Model 70 push feed.... I had two many years ago (late 70's vintage), one in .270 WCF and one in 30-06. Both were good shooters..... wish I would have kept them. I'm inclined to agree. I've sold off all my pre-64 Winchesters a log time ago but kept every one of my push feed rifles. In all my years of playing with rifles, I've only seen one pre-64 Winchester that I've totally lusted for. A pre-WW2 M70 factory chambered to the .35 Whelen accompanied by a factory letter. I saw it around 1981 at a gun show but didn't have the $10K the guy was asking for the rifle. If I want a control feed rifle, I'll buy or build one on a Mauser action. PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
1885 Highwall chambered I 35 Whelen
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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