Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Speed trial today with
Hornady Superformance 500-gr DGX factory load for .458 WinMag,
11 shots with each rifle chronographed at 5 yards, targeted at 50 yards on a very windy day,
after the rain let up.

Temperature = 86 degrees F

both rifles have 24.25" barrel length and 0.458" groove diameter


Geri has 1:14" twist and a throat with 0.200" less free-travel than SAAMI standard, so Geri has 0.4725" slug jump for .458-cal slug

11-shot mean = 2183.2 fps instrumental, St.Dev. = 11.4 fps


Freki has 1:10" twist and a SAAMI throat with 0.6725" slug jump for a .458-cal. slug

11-shot mean = 2132.5 fps instrumental, St.Dev. = 8.18 fps


The .461"/407-gr cast bullet shown below, beside the DGX load, will not chamber in Geri, bolt won't close, jammed into lands.
It fits into Freki, but not tested in 1:10" twist which is deemed too fast for cast.
Maybe next time when the wind is not blowing so hard, just for fun.

Conclusion:

1:10" twist does not have much effect on velocity or pressure in a SAAMI-throated .458 WinMag.
Correct the instrumental velocity to MV and the 1:10" twist makes the Hornady-advertised 2140 fps quite easily,
just like many other 1:14" twist SAAMI .458 WinMags of .458" to .459" groove diameter and 24" barrel length.

Shortening the throat by 0.200" (to what is still about twice as long as the .458 Lott throat)
has a greater effect on pressure and velocity.

Beware, perfectly good .458 WM+ loads may be too much for safety in the SAAMI .458 Lott.

I was just getting velocities today, no groups to write home about, with wind and rain and limited time,
for initial scope/bore sighting and getting on paper,
first time for me with each rifle.
Identical scopes and rifle weights for both rifles.
But, it is looking like Geri might be more accurate than Freki with the 500-gr DGX, at 50 yard target.
Maybe that is because Geri was well broken in by Sir Jerry,
with 500-gr TBSS at +2300 fps.

After action report:
After bore sighting each rifle, two shots were fired on paper at 50 yards to get initial scope adjustments.



Then the next three shots from each rifle were shot at a 50-yard target, shown below.













Geri is 51 fps faster than Freki using same ammo and same barrel length.
Different throats and different twist rates for each of these .458 WM Special rifles.

Groups were too-variable-wind-aided to be called groups, even at 50 yards.
Chronograph was blown over onto ground one time during this joyful outing,
just as I was about to hang a sandbag beneath the tripod.
No harm, just a foul wind.

Sir Ron,

Can understand the frustration nature can impose on our best laid plans. Look forward to a calm day report.

Asante sana-sana Sir Khulu,
just to throw some Swahili at your Ndbele African lingo,
for those in Rio Linda.

All y'all please recall, here is the old Hornady factory ammo with DGS and DGX loads dissected:



DGX velocity in the factory Winchester M70 "Super Grade" Cabela's .458 WinMag
(1:14" twist, 0.459" groove, SAAMI throat, 23.75" barrel length, 2146 fps MV)
was near identical to that of Freki the FN M98 .458 WinMag
(1:10" twist, 0.458" groove, SAAMI throat, 24.25" barrel length, 2145 fps MV).

Compensating factors add up.

Sir Ron,

Do you know whether the Hornady 500 grain DGS ammo is factory loaded with Superformance powder?

Had an interesting discussion with my Zim PH a few weeks ago about the Win M-70 Classic 458 WM he carries routinely for backup. This was in reference to elephants.

He prefers Woodleigh Hydroshock 500 grain solids but tells me that the new Hornady 500 DGS works very well and provides very good straight line penetration. He distinguished the performance of the new DGS from prior iterations of same as a marked improvement.

Sir Khulu,
The older Hornady solid bullets:
After the 500-gr RN steel-jacketed FMJ "solid" of yore
they briefly tried an encapsulated 500-grainer that had brass/bronze outer coat at 2260 fps MV, "Heavy Magnum" loads.
That may have been a RN with brass over steel and lead core.
That experiment is the one I read about using "Superformance" powder and a proprietary loading technique.
Huh ? Did they mean a drop tube and a compressed load ?
Anyway, those did not do well. Solids would not track straight, fish-tailed and flattened their hind ends,
and the RNSP paired with it simply could not handle 2260 fps MV.

The latest iterations as the Dangerous Game Solid (DGS) has a good-sized flat meplat and ogive leading up to it, pretty good at feeding.
Very thick steel meplat with a wash of copper or gilding metal over it.
Performs well as a solid.
The Dangerous Game eXpanding soft nose-- DGX -- was not bonded at first, now is.
Steel jacket bonded to lead core with copper/gilding wash on jacket: "DGX-Bonded" they now call it.
Flat meplat of lead bonded to a tapering steel jacket makes it a solid-performing soft.
Ain't gonna explode or lose its core. Steel base of that bullet is thick and solid.

In .458-caliber, Hornady has finally made good DG soft and solid bullets on their third try.
480-gr and 500-grain pairs for 450 NE and .458 WM.
The noses are short enough to fit into even the magazine-length-challenged .458 Lott
without having to trim the .458 Lott brass shorter, as must be done with the Barnes Banded Solids.
These bullets leave room to spare for fitting into the SAAMI .458 WinMag magazine length
when using the factory cannelures.

The powder they are loaded with as "Superformance" Dangerous Game loads
is by my SWAG AA-2230 or something very like it.
It's a ball powder with about half the spherical grains flattened into oblate spheroidal.
The DGX-Bonded bullet (1.390") is slightly longer than the DGS bullet (1.380").
And the DGX is seated slightly deeper than the DGS to boot.
DGX COL is 3.265": used 70.0 gr powder
DGS COL is 3.280": used 72.1 gr powder
So, there is (0.010" + 0.015")X(41.66grH2O/In) lesser net case capacity in the DGX load = 1.04 gr H2O.
2 grains less powder for 1 grain less case net water gave both bullets of same weight about same velocity ?
Oh yeah, that pressure lowering throat requires more powder than expected to get pressure up.

Sir John posted this on page 138 of this thread.
I can only say these came from a close range impact of the 480-gr/.458 DGX and two DGS solids
with a huge DG animal, body shots.

From page 131 of this thread:









The 25" Shilen was not as fast as the 24.25" barrels of Geri and Freki with the factory loads,
different rifles different conditions,
and different measurements of powder on the dissections: Variances by me or by the ammo ?
Anyway, close enough for horseshoes:

Sir Ron,

Agree with your findings that with the DGX-Bonded near 2300 fps is quite achievable.

I have not tried that combination but in the Ruger Hawkeye 458 WM+ with nominal 24” barrel the CEB BBW #13 450 gn Safari Solid + 80 gns AA-2230 and the Federal 215 primer produces 2375 fps (corrected MV = 2400 KE = 5756). This barrel has the SAAMI spec chamber throat and the action accommodates a 3.480” COAL in the MK II OEM magazine.


Elephant fodder in any company including the Lott & Rigby variants. No need to suffer from further recoil in reasonable weight rifles when these MV/KE levels will do admirably because in any land dwelling DG - other than a Botswana-type elephant bull - any excess KE will only serve to disrupt air flow on the far side of the target.

Sir Khulu,
Great to hear that your chimera of Ruger Hawkeye action and Ruger No. 1 barrel can handle 3.48" COL.
No problem at all with +2300 fps and 480-grainers in that .458 WM+.
I will post some data reviewing results from a factory Ruger No. 1 .458 WinMag, 24", 1:14"
that are +2400 fps with longer COL.
Even the 500-gr TBSS beats 2400 fps MV,
and that data is with Lab Radar, for MV and 100 yard velocities, no BC correction required,
allows estimating G1 BC for comparison to claims.

Great stuff, Sir Ron!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

As always, Sir Ron lets ‘er RIP in both loading and factual reporting. Well done sir.
F01

Asante sana-sana, Sir Bob and Sir Dennis.
I just got back from a road trip to the National SAR commemoration of the Battle of Blue Licks,
last battle of the Revolutionary War in Kentucky, August 19, 1782.
The superior British force of Canadians and Indians massacred the Kentuckians.
Daniel Boone's son Israel got an arrow through the neck and died there on the banks of the Licking River.
Yes, we took a licking there. Daniel Boone escaped and returned a few days later to bury the dead, including his son.
Daniel Boone called his rifle "Tick Licker" 'cause it could lick a tick off a hound at 100 yards.
Daniel Boone took a lot of lickings and kept on ticking.
Just like has happened to the reputation of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
There now, we are back on topic.

Rather than post some more notecard scribblings, here is the skinny on a comparison of
W-W Super "White Box" ammo to the latest Hornady factory ammo by Lab Radar with the 24" Ruger No.1,
80 degrees F, same day and same rifle as used for the 83.0-gr AA-2460 handloads above.

510-gr RNSP Winchester W-W Super .458 WM, COL = 3.330", advertised MV = 2040 fps
Lab Radar:
MV = 2035.3 fps
100 yards = 1804.7 fps
Factory claimed G1 BC =0.284
Calculated G1 BC = 0.316

500-gr DGS Hornady Superformance .458 WM, COL = 3.275", advertised MV = 2140 fps
Lab Radar:
MV = 2140.3 fps
100 yards = 1866.7
Factory claimed G1 BC = 0.295
Calculated G1 BC = 0.267

The W-W ammo was over 20 years old, and the Hornady just a few years old,
both having recently come off a local emporium shelf.
They both seemed to keep pretty good.
Nowhere near as bad as the Lottites would have us believe.

Funny how Winchester caved to the lies and downloaded the ammo.
The original 1956 ammo was about equal to the Hornady load for MV with the W-W 500-gr RN FMJ.
Bullets are better nowadays.
Powders are better.
Many great choices for handloads,
and several good factory loads have been produced in the recent past, in this century and last.

The Hornady DGX-Bonded 500-gr .458 WM factory ammo also does an honest 2140 fps.
I bet it works as well as Sir Jerry's 480-gr DGX-Bonded handload at 2150 fps from his 500/450 NE H&H Royal.
Recovered from thick-skinned DG weighing in the tons:







Water trap recovery of same bullet, same handload recipe, by Sir Jerry:



You really do not have to load this 480-gr bullet to +2400 fps in the .458 WM+,
but you can if you want to.

Those factory loads showing 2035 fps and 2140 fps for the W-W and Hornady ammo
do add credibility to the +2400 fps for the .458 WM+ handloads from same rifle, same day.
Seems like Lab Radar is pretty trustworthy.

AA-2460 is a great powder for loading in longer COLs.
AA-2230 is a great powder for loading in shorter COLs,
AA-2230 is like pre-squashed AA-2460, easier to pack in a smaller case capacity.
So many other good ball powders and stick powders too are super performers in the .458 WM+/-.

Sir Ron i was able the get 2500 FPS with the 404 Hammer in a 458 Win mag with AA2230 at 3.380 COL in an Interarms MarkX and 2298 with the 480 DGS

Very pleased with the data, photos and civil discourse. Keep up the good work! I'm searching for the fun of it............

We follow the advice of Theodore Roosevelt "Speak softly and carry a BIG BORE thunder stick"

That's a good one - I approve!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir John,
Just about exactly what I do,
except I am now going to recommend only the DGX-Bonded 480-gr and 500-gr bullets, not DGS
I am forgetting the DGS after considering Michael McCourry's testing at MIB.
Stick to monometal FN solids like the CEB and North Fork if you can get them.
The dang Hornady bullets are 2 dollars or more each, not just cheap plinkers as they used to be.
DGX-Bonded GOOD.
DGS not so good: CEB brass FN solids cost less and are as good as it gets for solid performance.
The .458/450-gr CEB Safari Solid at +2300 fps from a .458 WM+ cannot be beat. Ditto 400-gr @ +2400 fps.

Of course the 404-gr Shock Hammer obsoletes every other soft in .458 WM+, loaded like Sir John does it.

I believe this to be the failed second generation Hornady "solid," aka "Encapsulated Solid,"
used briefly in "Heavy Magnum" factory loads circa 2006.
This one was reportedly recovered from an elephant and has been circulated at many web sites during this century.





See next post for some observations on the "Encapsulated Solid" bullet construction.