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John 5:14

John 8:11

A saved person is no longer a sinner, even when they sin, as we all do. A saved person is saved not by their struggle against sin, but by Jesus's sacrifice to pay for that sin.

If you are accepted by God, it will not be because you did well enough to meet his conditions. His conditions have all been met in Jesus. Your faith needs to be in the sacrifice of Jesus having done everything necessary for salvation for you.

Instead, you want to place your faith in your own ability to resist sin. As long as you think you have to do good enough, your faith is in you.

Saved people will hate sin and want to be free of it. Saved people will do good works. Neither will help them get to Heaven and may prevent them from it if they are seeking their reward by those efforts.

A man can revere God and accept all (good and bad) that occurs...

Or a man can reject God and claim that he alone is responsible for all (good and bad) that occurs...

Each man must walk his own walk... and make his own decisions.

I abhor any man that would instruct/demand otherwise.

Saved people are tempted just like anyone else. That's Satan trying to reclaim what is his. The key is to not fall. Pretty sure we are saying the same thing, differently.

Here's a copy paste about falling.

God may still love them, but the fallen are separated from God.


"Throughout the Bible, many things are described as being fallen or having fallen. There are angels who have fallen and become demons (Isaiah 14:12; Revelation 12:4); the nation of Israel is called "fallen" (Amos 5:2). Even the glory that mankind aspires to gain is here today and gone tomorrow—it is bound to fall (1 Peter 1:24). King Saul fell from God's favor as a result of his sin (1 Samuel 15:10–11). All of these examples point to people or beings that fall into sin and subsequently fall in the path of God's just displeasure and wrath. Fallen people suffer the consequences of their own sinfulness; they are separated from God (Isaiah 59:2; Romans 6:23)."

Yes, saved people are tempted and they sin. They do not fall and lose their salvation when they sin only to regain it when they repent or get saved again if that's even possible. That does not mean saved people can sin all they want and get away with it. The very definition of being saved is that they are changed and do not want to sin again. We will continue to sin and continue to struggle against it, but salvation is not dependent on that struggle.

You stated "The key is to not fall." I'm sorry but that is so wrong. If you hold that belief, you are relying on your ability, not on God's. The key is "Have faith in God."

Give it all to God. All your sin, past, present, and future has been paid for. Trust in the sacrifice Jesus made and NOTHING else. It's that trust and faith that causes you to sin less and desire to be pleasing to God, but he is pleased by your faith that he did everything necessary for your salvation, not in your struggle to be worthy of it.

And that's it in a nutshell. No more complicated than that. Choose God and everlasting peace, or not choose God and continue with your condemnation. It's completely up to you.

What is mind numbing is that so many let their entire self-preservation be consumed by their blip in time here on this [bleep] planet, and completely ignore where they'll spend eternity.

I submit that most of the problems with this earth are created by those people with messed up priorities like that. Satan loves them too.

"Romans 6:12-14

“Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God."

That is God expecting you to make the effort. You have the responsibility to meet his expectations.

You are looking at it wrong. Do you think God expects you to walk sinless? If that was the case, why make the sacrifice of Jesus? Why not just tell everyone to stop sinning because I expect you to, because I created you. God never expected anyone to live without sin. If he thought anyone could live without sin, there would have been no need for the sacrifice of Jesus. God concluded all under sin so that all could be forgiven by faith in him. You must understand that if anyone could have been made good enough for heaven (righteous) by their actions, there would have been no sacrifice needed. They would be righteous by the law.

The scripture you quoted is excellent advice. It should stand in your mind and heart as a buffer against sin, and God wants you to make the effort, but not because he expects you to succeed. He wants you to make the effort because you will be a better human being because of it. He wants you to only trust his effort and his grace though when you fail. If you trust in his redemption every time, you will rise up again and try again without the judgement of previous failures or even future ones.

RHClark,

Lots of satan's work in this thread and you skip right over that and zero in on me, for what, not being the perfect biblical scholar you present yourself to be?

Piss off.

I'm not presenting myself to be anything. I didn't think I needed to correct Satan's work in this thread, so I wasn't looking for the best or worst offenders. I simply read a few posts on the end and tried to correct something I felt needed correction.

I will give you one other piece of advice. Don't think too highly of yourself, and you won't be as easily angered. Pride is a dangerous vice. I wouldn't warn you now except that the attitude that you can earn God's love, acceptance, or salvation through your own actions is also one born of pride.

All of us are a long way from being sinless. I put myself at the top of that list. I am as prideful and arrogant as anyone. I am only picking on you to hopefully make the Gospel clearer to everyone. The Good News of the Gospel is that God forgives us because Jesus paid our way without any requirement on our part except to believe it. We take that knowledge and humbly try to be good sons.

Blaise Pascal said, “People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.” How does this apply…to y’all’s belief in or rejection of…the existence of God?

Cherry pick your battles much?

Figured I'd cut you off before the pulpit pounding got too loud.

Look, friend, I don't need a complicated understanding because it's not a complicated thing to understand.

Around here we just try to live right. Folks keep a good bit of humility about 'em, though I've been known to speak my mind from time to time. Probably that Highland Scott herritage peaking out.

We don't do harm to others. We take care of our family and friends, and when things go really sideways we do the best we can to help out those we don't know. We do our best as lowly sinners to do as God commands us to do.

We know God provides what we need to get through this life and not everything we want. We look past our troubles and pains and thank God for everything we are blessed with no matter how much or how little that is.

We hope when our day comes God will let us in, despite not deserving His Grace or what Jesus did suffering and dying for our sins.

Don't flatter yourself by thinking you make me angry. It takes a lot more than you could ever pony up Hoss. But I will say that the all knowing arrogance of people like you is the reason so many are turned off by "religion". Now pat yourself on the back, you're the first one I put on ignore here. Congrats.
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You simply said some things that needed correcting and then got pissed when I corrected you. I do apologize if I sounded arrogant doing it. That was not my intention. The idea of earning your salvation by living right has to be corrected. Otherwise I would not have singled you out. If that upsets you enough to place me on ignore, then I don't think you will have many conversations here.

Dude, Jesus told the adultress who was condemned to die per the law that he did not condemn her and to go, sin no more, Jesus' own words written in scripture. Translation: get your [bleep] straight girl and start living right. You're confusing "works" with folks trying to live as God wants them to. There's a difference. Your arrogance shines. G'bye.

You got mad at my correction to your post, told me to piss off, started only speaking hostile, told me I was the only one bad enough for you to ignore, yet I'm the arrogant one. If that's your attitude I would rather not hear from you again anyway.

If you’ve walked away from Christianity, and you assume for the moment that God does exist ~ the God that was presented to us by Jesus and other’s in the New Testament ~ what is your reaction to that notion, and how does it make you feel…guilty, accountable, wrong, or something else…?

And if the existence of the God that was presented to us by Jesus and other’s in the New Testament brings forgiveness, relationship, and truth, are those things attractive or not…?

I can understand walking away from religion but I can’t wrap my head around walking away from God.

The two are often mutually exclusive.

I concur buddy.

I think we can wrestle with honest questions and still embrace a genuine faith in God. God understands our pain. I think He welcomes our honest questions too, and I am convinced that God would rather have us yell at Him than walk away from Him. When we hit the crisis of belief, we shouldn’t deny our doubts. But I don’t think we should run from God either. We can let our doubts drive us to continue to embrace a genuine faith in God, even when we wrestle with God.

Nope. I see no empirical evidence of a higher power. If there is one, it's uncaring, aloof, and unresponsive. It is I DGAF. If a God set it up, it's a rolling stone down the chute. Chit happens. Whatever...

We are basically fugged to our heritage and environs. Period. Muslims, Christians, heathens, Hindus, tribesman, etc. You get one shot in life . Here and now, under the circumstances you are born. Make the most of it. Be decent.

The "one God" concept was invented about 3K years ago, by the Hebrews after a 75K evolution of mankind. Ain't saying they were wrong, but it WAS an invention or REVELATION - take your pick. By the way, it reads "Thou shalt not have no other god above me". Mind the "no other"..

I/we got lucky, and I am very appreciative to me, my time, and place.

Keeping in mind that many of my past opinions over 76 years have proven at least partially erroneous.

I have lived, I am gonna die. I hope I haven't done too many people too much wrong. I have made little or no difference in world affairs, or even in national or local affairs.

That's all.

If there is indeed a God, He can judge me on that. If there is indeed a God, I trust he will be forgiving of my foibles. I don't buy "free will - believe in me un-equivaquably - or you re damned"- hardly the definition of "free will", and all the other stuff.

In other words, "Give me a break, will-ya? "

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