Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Handloader's block resolved:



Nice weather ahead, might have something to do with it.



Also easily improved with a SAAMI .458 WinMag reamer:

Sir Ron,
You may be onto something regarding the BLR and 458 Winchester. I have not handled one of the newer models in awhile. Don't they have some sort of new fangled hammer operation ?

It seems that I have read of someone doing a bigger bore cartridge on the new BLR. I don't recall the chambering though. No doubt the 458 Winchester would make that rifle all that it could be.

Without that grinder, that stump would still be a Lott of work.

idmay375 I like that a lott

CFE 223 in the .458 WinMag is like the Old Bull.
The young bull wants to run down the hill and cut a heifer out of the herd.
The Old Bull prefers walking down and cutting them all.
The CFE 223 pokes paper well.





65 gr = 1726 fps hit about 3" low
68 gr = 1845 fps hit about 4" low
faster shot lower with the 450-gr TSX.
Scope was adjusted for elevation only, 32 clicks up for next 6 groups, no windage adjustments.
Pretty well zeroed at 50 yards for 71-grain charge (1943 fps) with no other adjustments.
Calm day, might need two clicks to the right.

Sir Larry,
Might take two TakeDown rifles, a long action and a short action
Find a .300 WinMag BLR TakeDown
and see if the .450 Marlin Barrel could be transplanted ?
Then is there enough meat in the .450 Marlin barrel to lengthen chamber by 1/2" ?

If not, re-throating the .450 Marlin would certainly be a worthy project.

Very cool #1 RC! Looks like that big hammer wants to hunt!

Sir Ron, excellent work!👍

Sir Scotty,

Beam us up, then to anywhere on the planet and Daisy will make a bloody big hole through any critter.
One planet, one Daisy.

Recall that by allowing her a COL of 3.480" with the 500-gr Hornady RNSN InterLock (BOL 1.330")
she was able to digest 85 grains of CFE 223 with no powder compression,
producing 2169 fps MV (52*F) and a 3-shot, 50-yard group of 0.63 MOA.

With the short COL of 3.340" and the much longer 450-gr TSX (BOL 1.520")
even as little as 74 grains of CFE 223 is pretty heavily compressed.
Hence the slower velocity with the lighter bullet is about all Daisy can do,
when "governed" by SAAMI COL limit.
CFE 223 is slow, needs a smaller bore and/or higher sectional density bullet to get pressures up.
CFE 223 in the .458 WinMag with 450-gr TSX would be hard to get pressure over 60,000 psi,
unless the rifle had a problem with some funny business,
like the SAAMI .458 Lott suffers from.

Sir John,
Asante sana sana for the flowers.

I know how much you like CFE 223 in the .416 RemMag with
SAAMI MAP 65,000 psi.
Good powder there, probably allows top speeds at lower pressures there.
Accurate but slow in the .458 WinMag,
might be better with 550-600 grainers.
Might be able to get pressures up to 60,000 psi SAAMI MAP for .458 WinMag.

Daisy used 83.0 grains of AA-2460 and a COL of 3.570" to get the 450-gr TSX up to 2459 fps MV,
and same charge powder with a COL of 3.550" to get 500-gr TBSS up to 2408 fps MV
at 80*F.
Those were LabRadar velocities, no correction for BC needed.
Both bullets also go to same zero at 100 yards, with same powder charge, and slightly different COL, fired from Daisy.

AA-2230 and AA-2460 are speedy powders, and behave very close to same in the LongCOL loads for .458 WM+.
AA-2460 just takes up a little more case capacity than AA-2230 with the latter's pre-flattened granules.

BTW, CFE 223 and AA-2230 look similar in granules,
and they meter about identically.
72 grains weight fills the same case volume with both.

CFE 223 surely seems to live up to the Copper Fouling Elimination.

Once again the .458 WinMag at 3.340" COL shows that the long throat is no impediment to accuracy.
It's all good, in the .458 Winchester Magnum, King of Cartridges.

Here is a better view of my replacement for the forend hanger screw on the Ruger No.1
which I did because the original slotted head screw got stripped and bent
by keeping a firm grip on the forearm during lots of shooting, including 500-grainers at +2400 fps:



The hardware used was the sliding ferrule from the CZ 550 Magnum barrel recoil lug contraption, from a take-off barrel,
and high-quality socket screw.
Forearm was full contact bedded to action and barrel except for the cut-out for the hanger arm.
My accurizing and strengthening method could be done to a walnut or laminated stock also.
BTW, the quarter rib was also removed and re-attached with J-B Weld.
J-B Weld, original formula, was used for all glass bedding and refinements,
including the Schnabel Blobbel with inset, black paint and clear epoxy overlay.
A labor of love for your rifle.

From the previous shot, the above screw was replaced with stainless screw and a washer added under the socket head:



... screw length might be perfect as found or need trimming to length, parts is parts.

My next trick will be some standard SAAMI-satisfying loads using
Hodgdon BENCHMARK
with the 400-gr CEB FN solid and the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
That combo should be as useful as Archimedes' lever, in the standard bolt action .458 WinMag.
EUREKA !!!



Will give Daisy a rest and let her try them later.

AA2230 WORKS great with 400 grainers

True. Hard to beat it.
Many come close in the versatile .458 WinMag.
One way that BENCHMARK might be superior is in ThermoBallisticIndependence (TBI), if that matters.

The BENCHMARK loads will be of interest mainly for establishing whether a given rifle is a fast one or a slow one
for whatever the ambient temperature is that day.
The BENCHMARK loads will be benchmark loads, pun intended.
Will have to be 3.340" COL and with a MAP about 60,000 psi by best SWAG.
No .458 Lott pressures and COLs allowed for the benchmark loads with BENCHMARK.

After that I will have to get back to beating the SAAMI .458 Lott with the .458 WM+.
Maybe even a .458 Watts Express 2.7" if I ever succumb to wildcatting madness again.

Sir Ron, the great thing about a 458 Wstts is the ability to shoot 458 Win, Lott and Watts all in the same rifle.

If a Lott is a rechambered 458 Win mag then all is good with the Lott, otherwise 👎

Sir John,
That is not true. The .458 Lott can be improved with the new throat, becoming able to equal the .458 WM+,
but it still suffers in another way.
When you take a cartridge meant for a 3.4" mag box,
lengthen the brass by 0.3" and then stick it in a rifle with 3.6" mag box, only 0.2" longer,
you are screwing up by 0.1".
That is a pretty sloppy tolerance for gunsmithing.
It stinks !
Like engraving the rifle with a brick !

By SAAMI spec, the .458 Lott is missing 0.1" of nose room for bullet fit.
You either have to trim the Lott brass shorter or accept exceeding SAAMI COL
for something as simple as using the 450-gr TSX bullet in the .458 Lott.

Nowadays the bullet makers have shifted to shorter-nosed .458 bullets
so as not to hurt the feelings of the .458 Lott crybabies.

The smart thing to do if wanting to upstage the .458 Winchester Magnum
by sticking it in a 0.2"-longer rifle action would be to make the brass 0.2" longer, not 0.3" longer.
The answer is the .458 Watts Express 2.7".
That is a cross of .450 Watts Magnum (2.850" brass) with .458 Winchester Magnum (2.500" brass).
2.7" brass case and .458 Winchester Magnum throat same distance from breech face.
Re-chamber a .458 WinMag with no setback of barrel.

New name for this wildcat: .458 Watts-Winchester = .458 WW for short.
Splitting the baby on that would be a 2.675" case length, but 2.700" is NO PROBLEMO.

This adds no power to the top-end .458 WM+ loads with heavy bullet,
unless used in a single-shot or +3.8"-length magazine.
But it will allow use of 250-grain bullets at faster velocities and lower pressures than the .458 Lott,
could even better the .458 WM+ with the proper 250-grainer, allowing longer seating depth and longer COL.
Allows better grip on a 404-gr Shock Hammer at longer COL.

404-gr Shock Hammer loads:
.458 WM+: 3.38" COL and +2500 fps
.458 WW: 3.580" and +2600 fps
SAAMI .458 Lott: 3.580" and less than 2600 fps at higher pressure due to SAAMI Lott throat, short and tight.

The .458 Lott is still the champ with bird shot, almost as good as a .410 shotgun up close.
Excellent for rats and snakes at close range.

Want to get higher velocities with the 450-gr TSX and the self-cleaning CFE 223
in your SAAMI .458 WinMag ?

Load that TSX to 3.680" COL by crimping in the last cannelure, the 4th groove.
Pour in more CFE 223 with a drop tube.
Single load the cartridge into your bolt-action or single-shot rifle.
You will beat the SAAMI .458 Lott in either higher velocity or lower pressure, maybe both if splitting hairs.

I once owned a 458 Watts, Lott, Win mag built by Jack Huntington