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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Ol bone spurs got his azz handed to him in 2020 by the worst presidential candidate ever. If and a big IF ol spurs is the nominee in 24 he will lose bigly again.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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Clues for the Genius Crew and AntiQuber Junkyard Dawg Crew. Try Harder. You Attack those you Fear the Most. Q in 2019 giving Clues. * Trump in 2022 also giving Clues. The clues are, Q and the message. *
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Outfitter
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I can't wait until 2024 when President Trump turns all the alphabet soup agencies loose on the democommies.
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 95,690 |
I can't wait until 2024 when President Trump turns all the MILITARY PATRIOTS loose on the democommies. fIXT It's coming.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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Posted for everyone's enjoyment... if you have the ability to read and apprehend.Link; Rulingits just 35 pages and shouldn't take you all more than a few moments. Enjoy! Phil Dummie. The word your addled brain is failing to find is…comprehend.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2021
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Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. JoeBob Esq, don't you know you're talking to a WarAdmiral? LOL He seems about as smart as the original WarAdmiral was, but I doubt he is as fast. Please post again when Trump loses the appeal. Should be fun.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. JoeBob Esq, don't you know you're talking to a WarAdmiral? LOL He seems about as smart as the original WarAdmiral was, but I doubt he is as fast. Please post again when Trump loses the appeal. Should be fun. What was the total number of errors the DOJ "accidentally" made on the Trump FISA applications? Answer that question honestly if you dare. If it is not yet apparent, people will do anything to try to get Trump, and the law won't stand in the way.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,197 |
I can't wait until 2024 when President Trump turns all the MILITARY PATRIOTS loose on the democommies. fIXT It's coming. *2025
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented?
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. JoeBob Esq, don't you know you're talking to a WarAdmiral? LOL He seems about as smart as the original WarAdmiral was, but I doubt he is as fast. Please post again when Trump loses the appeal. Should be fun. If your bot ass will post when it is thrown out by the federal courts.
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Posts: 8,120
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,120 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? From what I saw discussed by the "experts", what you're describing is the difference between a civil and criminal case & charges.....yesterday was civil, much lower level of burden of proof needed. But the appeals process will start, and go on for years....all the while his holdings will be idle.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,495 |
Ol bone spurs got his azz handed to him in 2020 by the worst presidential candidate ever. If and a big IF ol spurs is the nominee in 24 he will lose bigly again. Keep on believing that PedoJoe won without collusion from multiple jurisdictions & 3 letter agencies. BTW-I missed the reason you changed your username, can you drop that tidbit again?
FJB & FJT
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? From what I saw discussed by the "experts", what you're describing is the difference between a civil and criminal case & charges.....yesterday was civil, much lower level of burden of proof needed. But the appeals process will start, and go on for years....all the while his holdings will be idle. Yes, and no. The standard for a civil trial is preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the basis for making the determination is still the same. You still have to show “intent”. You don’t just get to say, “The tax appraisal said $18 million, and you said $250 million, therefore I say you committed fraud.” It shouldn’t work that way.
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,120
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,120 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? From what I saw discussed by the "experts", what you're describing is the difference between a civil and criminal case & charges.....yesterday was civil, much lower level of burden of proof needed. But the appeals process will start, and go on for years....all the while his holdings will be idle. Yes, and no. The standard for a civil trial is preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the basis for making the determination is still the same. You still have to show “intent”. You don’t just get to say, “The tax appraisal said $18 million, and you said $250 million, therefore I say you committed fraud.” It shouldn’t work that way. I think the real issue was that no jury was needed, just a judge makes the decision and you are supposed to swallow the pill...like it or not. He obviously had an agenda, with his post trial statements and fines issued to attorneys for "frivolous filings".
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2021
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I can't wait until 2024 when President Trump turns all the MILITARY PATRIOTS loose on the democommies. fIXT It's coming. The best prediction of the future is to look at the exact opposite of whatever ol eyeball says is going to happen. Its been proven over the years. LOL
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,804 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? From what I saw discussed by the "experts", what you're describing is the difference between a civil and criminal case & charges.....yesterday was civil, much lower level of burden of proof needed. But the appeals process will start, and go on for years....all the while his holdings will be idle. Yes, and no. The standard for a civil trial is preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the basis for making the determination is still the same. You still have to show “intent”. You don’t just get to say, “The tax appraisal said $18 million, and you said $250 million, therefore I say you committed fraud.” It shouldn’t work that way. I think the real issue was that no jury was needed, just a judge makes the decision and you are supposed to swallow the pill...like it or not. He obviously had an agenda, with his post trial statements and fines issued to attorneys for "frivolous filings". Read the link a few pages ago. The tax assessor said Maralago was worth $18 to $27 million. Trump said $600 million. It is twenty acres and grand castle like home. A developer said it might be worth $725 million. Forbes magazine said conservatively $350 million. A neighbor’s five bedroom house on less than half an acre sold for $75 million. So, naturally the judge said it was only worth $18 million. Upon what basis does he make his finding? Upon the tax assessor in Florida? Did the assessor testify as to his reason for the assessed value? Did they ask banks if they relied upon assessed value or market values? In previous cases, what have New York courts said about the difference between market values and assessed values? All of that is needed to determine if a) Trump overestimated his value, b) if said over estimation was intentional; and c) if it was fraudulent.
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,120
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,120 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? From what I saw discussed by the "experts", what you're describing is the difference between a civil and criminal case & charges.....yesterday was civil, much lower level of burden of proof needed. But the appeals process will start, and go on for years....all the while his holdings will be idle. Yes, and no. The standard for a civil trial is preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the basis for making the determination is still the same. You still have to show “intent”. You don’t just get to say, “The tax appraisal said $18 million, and you said $250 million, therefore I say you committed fraud.” It shouldn’t work that way. I think the real issue was that no jury was needed, just a judge makes the decision and you are supposed to swallow the pill...like it or not. He obviously had an agenda, with his post trial statements and fines issued to attorneys for "frivolous filings". Read the link a few pages ago. The tax assessor said Maralago was worth $18 to $27 million. Trump said $600 million. It is twenty acres and grand castle like home. A developer said it might be worth $725 million. Forbes magazine said conservatively $350 million. A neighbor’s five bedroom house on less than half an acre sold for $75 million. So, naturally the judge said it was only worth $18 million. Upon what basis does he make his finding? Upon the tax assessor in Florida? Did the assessor testify as to his reason for the assessed value? Did they ask banks if they relied upon assessed value or market values? In previous cases, what have New York courts said about the difference between market values and assessed values? All of that is needed to determine if a) Trump overestimated his value, b) if said over estimation was intentional; and c) if it was fraudulent. I never disputed any of that, was just saying it wasn't a jury decision.
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Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Found guilty with a summary judgement of repeated fraud in New York, ordered the immediate dissolvement of trump enterprises and the taking of all of trumps business licenses and certificates in the state.
Phil And every dictator and megalomaniac control freak in the would is taking notes...and cheering.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 217 |
Trump had the misfortune of being sued under NY Executive Law section 63(12), a fraud statute under the Martin Act. This is the most powerful anti-fraud statute in the nation and came into existence to combat fraud on Wall Street.
Once he was sued under this statute it was clear he was going to lose. Why? The Martin Act does not require fraudulent intent; it does not require reliance by the defrauded party; and it does not require damages to the defrauded party. The elements of the statute are met when a person or entity provides knowingly false or misleading information to another person or entity in order to receive something of value from them. That's it.
The penalties are wicked as we learned yesterday. Trump has lost his ability to operate in New York State and his corporations and LLC's were ordered to be dissolved.
Unfortunately, there aren't any grounds for appeal. He will try, but he will lose. As I said, the fraud statutes in New York are wicked. Plenty of grounds for appeal. It requires “knowingly”. To decide that on summary judgment when there are multiple standards valuing property and relying on the absolute lowest assessed value, of a property in another state entirely I might add, is abuse of discretion. And by the way it most certainly DOES require fraudulent intent. Knowingly providing false information to someone to receive something of value IS FRAUD as defined in every single common law jurisdiction IN THE WORLD. I have no fear of AI if it is as stupid as all the bots are who show up on this board. 63(12) does not have a scienter element. Scienter means intent. Appellate courts rarely grant appeals on findings of fact, and the judge is the sole finder of fact in this case. Only errors in law are surefire grounds for appeal. Quit throwing around terms you don’t understand. I merely repeated your statement in the last post and told you it was a textbook definition of fraud and fraud requires intent. And yes, the law does require intent because it repeatedly mentions fraud. Fraud is a legal term requiring more than mere misrepresentation or being wrong on a valuation. As for a determination of fact, meh. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the court incorrectly applied the law to make it’s determination of “fact”. For instance, he apparently relied upon a tax appraisal and took the lowest value it could possibly be. Did he consider other standards? Were they presented? Was error preserved? What standards have been applied in similar cases? What evidence of fraudulent intent was presented? I've been an attorney in New York State since 1993. I know what the terms mean. Common law fraud requires intent to defraud others for the purposes of depriving them of a thing of value. The Martin Act does not require this to be found liable for fraud. There is no intent to defraud element. All that is required is the act/statement that tends to mislead or deceive. The statute specifically states that there need not be a finding of common law fraud to have a violation of the Act. That is the whole point of my original response which was that it was unfortunate for Trump to be sued under section 63(12). If you don't understand the law in this case you can't say the things you are saying without sounding buffoonish. Trump's intent was irrelevant, and thus the ruling on summary judgment.
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