As another thought. I shoot a 54 cal with a 1/60 twist which is designed for the RB,which it shoots quite well. But it also shoots the Lee 300gr REAL bullet with great accuracy. From the picture you see the Lee bullet is very short. Slightly longer than the RB. I believe a short conical like this might be an answer to your accuracy problem. In my rifle I shoot Triple 7 FF, 100grs. If you were to start at 60grs , then go to 70,80 & then 90. you most likely will find a sweet spot for accuracy in your rifle. .
Unless the bore is trashed, there’s no reason it shouldn’t shoot. Check out Idaho Lewis on YouTube. He shoots stock renegades that he upgrades with aftermarket sights. His groups at 500 will make you blush.
“One thorn of experience is worth a whole wilderness of warning.” - James Russell Lowell
I need a little help. I'm stuggling with an older T/C Renegade .54 (I guess they all are any more). I have not shot it too much in the last few years, but have really struggled with it's accuracy. 30 years ago it shot great, I can't figure out what might have changed-yeah I know-my eyes, but other than that.
I know their twist rate is intermediate, but I used to get acceptable accuracy with either patched round balls or bullets, including Power Belts. The last few trips to the range were to try and wring out round ball accuracy for a hunt. .530 Hornady swaged round balls with heavy blue stripe pillow ticking patches greased accordingly and 90 grains of 777 most recently, but had troubles with 2F BP as well. I haven't been able to keep 3 rounds on a 14" target at 100 yards. 50 yards produces 8-9" groups.
Can you "shoot out" a muzzleloader barrel. Am I now limited to 50 yards and in???
Any thoughts from this knowledgable group would be appreciated.
LHS
Use 70gr 777. You may even need to include a fiber wad. My best recommendation for patches are lubed pillow tickers. Google Search "October Country oiled pillow ticker patches" and best bets are the 015 thickness. I've been using theirs for years. Think I still have some bear grease-lubed ones in my muzzleloaders tools box.
A little off topic but I bought a 54 Renegade when they first came out. Only ml I ever had that shot round ball and maxi to almost the same poa at fifty yards. 440 grain maxi and 100 yr of DuPont fry and the .535 round ball and the same charge. Differed at 100 by several inches. The first ones had really nice wood.
Hunting right now with my 54 Renegade. Enjoying the sunrise. With my T/C’s my accuracy improved by leaps and bounds when I gave away my Pyrodex, Pyrodex Select an 777, replacing it with REAL bp.
By far my best performance was realized with No Excuses conical bullets. I also switched my nipple and went to musket caps. I shoot two 54’s, a Renegade and T/C Hawken. Both prefer 105 grains . I also shoot a gorgeous 50 cal Hawken. It too prefers No Excuses bullets and 100 grains of bp. My 45 cal Seneca cut groups in half with 80 grains of bp and a Hornady Great Plains bullet that’s no longer made.
Go find som FFG and shoot the real stuff it was made to shoot. But cleanup is so messy! Nope….not at all. No need for boiling soapy water, etc. clean with Windex Vingear formulation. Your bore will be spotless. I quit the soap suds 25 years ago based on Mike Venturino’s recommendation. Not one speck of rust in all that time.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
You can learn a LOT from your patch. What condition is the patch in after firing it? If your bore is pitted and rough and is the problem, it will tear the patch up. Check for that before taking a deep dive into fixing something blindly. Bores can "look" horrible, but shoot just fine, so look at a fired patch or three before getting too excited.
Patch material might have changed since it shot well decades ago. You may need to not take it for granted and try other patch materials, other patch thicknesses, other patch lubes, maybe even other ball diameters.
It's a 1:48 twist if it's an original T/C barrel. It's a compromise to shoot balls and conicals "ok". It will never really shoot either exceptionally. My early days with BP were all Renegades and Hawkens. Nothing ever really wowed me until I got into 1:66 or slower twists for roundballs, and 1:24 twists for inlines and saboted pistol bullets.
Sights: it ain't gonna shoot worth a [bleep] if you can't drive the sights.
I'll add too, that your loading method can make a big difference with roundballs. It really doesn't matter "how" you do it, as long as you do it exactly the same way each time. I like a medium compression on my charges. More than just touching, but not pounded tight. I push the patched ball down onto the charge, then apply just enough pressure to "seat" the ball to a mark I've put on the ramrod even with the muzzle. This ensures the ball is actually seated on the charge, and ensures each load has the same amount of compression each time. I never hammer the load home and bounce the ramrod like Hollywood does it. That can upset the roundness of a soft lead ball and affect its flight characteristics which in truth are poor even when it's perfect.
Maybe you already answered this, but how do your fired patches look? If the patches look good you can move on to checking the stock for cracks, etc. If the patches are shredded maybe the breech-end has got some crud/corrosion that is tough to see from the muzzle.
I have not had a chance to do the patch evaluation. I need to wring that out before next year. At this point all the muzzleloader seasons are over, I've moved on to prepping for my rifle seasons.
IT's NEVER OVER! YOU DONT JUST TURN IT OFF!! Rambo circa 1981. As for ,me, I have 3 of them and non shoot really well. About 4" at 50 yds is it most times.. However, it sounds like you are not being consistant with cleaning the barrel every shot , or you are not pushing the ram down at the same force cause the barrel is PERHAPS dirty. This is when things go goofy with my muzzleloaders .
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
I shot a Renegade for years - even sent it back to T/C for a stock repair back in the day. Great gun - I used the T/C maxi balls and loose pyrodex with it. I did (and still do) do one spit and two dry patches down the barrel after every shot. Consistency is of course everything in BP shooting, and I found that helped me with loading, getting consistent results, and kept it a bit cleaner during the season while it was riding around in the truck. I sold it years ago after running into a T/C Custom Shop Hawken Classic that grabbed and held me. Didn't need two. Good luck.
I have a .54 side lock cva carbine with a 1:32 twist. Trick for shooting prb through it was back the pyrodex way down. 70 grains of pyrodex will tear the patch to shreds in a tight twist. 40 grains will keep the patch intacked, deliver great groups and drive holes through both sides of a deer's chest at 80 yards. drt. Killed plenty of ks deer with that load as well as with conicals and 80 grains of pyrodex.
I tried a few BP substitutes in my MK-85 .54 cal muzzleloader, and then I tried Goex FFG. My load development stopped after using black powder. Stinky, loud, and foul, but that stuff sure does shoot. Easy to sight in and then fired three more for a very impressive 3 shot group at 100 yds.
I couldn't keep blackhorn 209 on paper, even missed the backstop a couple times. Someone can have my blackhorn crap.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
I tried a few BP substitutes in my MK-85 .54 cal muzzleloader, and then I tried Goex FFG. My load development stopped after using black powder. Stinky, loud, and foul, but that stuff sure does shoot. Easy to sight in and then fired three more for a very impressive 3 shot group at 100 yds.
I couldn't keep blackhorn 209 on paper, even missed the backstop a couple times. Someone can have my blackhorn crap.
What were you igniting it with??
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
This is my tc in 50 following the recipe of Idaho lewis
Last edited by high_country_; 11/06/23.
Originally Posted by BrentD
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
A lubed wad over real bp makes a big difference in cleaning.
Originally Posted by BrentD
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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