Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Wilson Combat NULAs

Do you know a fella named John Burns ? We’re PARDs.

I'm VERY "surprised!",that a simplistic rundown of COAL mag constraints,can't be compiled,in regards to the given receiver's mass/sizing. Hint.

It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............

Drink a Bud Light and watch NFL, pard.

Still trying to compensate for being a miserable, dwarf troll.

BC and OAL isn't going to rectify a thing. Hint.


Laffin.

Big Stick is the John Fetterman of the 24 Hour Campfire.

Looking forward to how these work out. I have three Forbes 24B's that all shoot MOA at 5.5 to 5.75 pounds. The 25-06 is a caribou killing phenom with 101 LRX's at 3386 into 0.5" groups. I was saving up for a Barrett Field Craft when they pulled the plug. Any plans to make the Model 20 in 284? It was a big seller for Melvin.

Honey,

A .400 BC is fhuqking HILARIOUS! Hint.

3386fps is drivel,scooting same. The 284 Win is an EPIC Goat Fhuqk! Pardon facts. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I wish manufacturers would twist their rifles faster too. The Barrett FC short actions are twisted right and have about a 3" mag box. I regret not buying more of them. Their LA models didn't have enough length in the box.

If someone wanted to make a rifle right in my eyes they'd start using stainless actions and barrels. I don't like chomoly steel blued barrels even if cerakoted because they don't coat the bore. I'll consider one if it's nitride. Howa got it backwards and went all blued with a coated option. They should have gone all stainless with a coated or nitride option for those wanting the darker look. I would save time and cut expense reducing model numbers by going all stainless.

I would also go 3" mag box on short actions and 3.9" on long actions. If I did a mini action I'd go 2.6"

I don't see any downside to faster twists so 6mm and 243 would be at least 7.5. I'd do the 223, 22-250, and 22 creed at 7", 25s would be at least 8 twist, 6.5s would be at least 8 maybe 7.5", 7mms would be 8 twist, and I'd go at least 9 twist on 308 cal. Other then poofing a few bullets in flight driving very soft skin stuff very fast I've never had a time where I felt I had too much twist. The ones I saw come apart were with a fast twist 3 groove with a rough worn throat driving soft bullets very fast. There is no downside to faster twist as I see it. You older curmudgeon can still shoot round noses through a fast twist and still not shoot game past 200 yards if you want.

I'd drill it for mounts just like Barrett did for fieldcrafts. I'd use a pad that's soft and effective and doesn't feel like it was cut from a trucks retread, and I'd put triggertech triggers in all of them.

I just cannot understand why anyone these days would still do 10 twist 243's or 308s with an 11.25. Really how hard is it to just order faster twist barrels? Those who shoot a lot will be way more likely to buy an 8 twist 243 that a 10 twist. And those who think 10 is great probably won't even look what twist it is anyways because they are not into shooting enough to really care.

Varmint bullets splat things better with a faster twist anyways. I built a 243 nearly 20 years ago with an 8 twist brux when brux was pretty new. I had to build to get one twisted for 105 amaxes and vlds I wanted to use. That same rifle also shoots 55g ballistic tips at 4000 fps and gets 1/2" groups. It turns rock chucks into a red mist with 55s and can still go long with 105s.

So Bb rifles would be stainless, long mag boxes, fast twists, solid mount set up, good pad, and triggertech. Also all stocks would be stiff so when floated they stay floated weather Tupperware, carbon, fiberglass, or wood. No flexing for ends allowed.

After being a marketing director for 14 years I've learned not to go off your own assumptions. Survey the respected people in the industry, listen to those that others listen to, talk to the mavens. Some people don't like sticks style but if I was in the industry I'd be listen to guys like him. I took the company I worked for from being ranked 37th in their segment as a brand to number 1 in 7 years. I did it not by doing general surveys of the ignorant masses only but by listening to the most respected people out there, the ones others knew were the top of that field. The masses don't know what they want until the experts tell them and explain it.

Bb

I think this is the long and the short of it.

I think this is funnier than hell! Potential and PROBABLE buyers are trying to tell a manufacturer how to create a winning product in a modern market and although some open to custom options, he wants to do what every one in the past has already done. They are literally begging him to take their money. And then he pushes his ethics and says you need to get closer.

Who do you think your market is? Mountain hunters, sheep hunters, backcountry backpack guys. Western type hunters. Im sure some deer tracker types that like a quick responsive rifle will buy them too. Even some stand hunters. But why would it matter if most game is shot less than 200 yards in the East. There are hundreds of options in old slow twist rifles that would work. And let’s face it, your rifles won’t be inexpensive. So why would guys drop that kind of money for something they already have or can get anywhere.

I don’t consider myself a LR hunter but I’ve been around enough LR to know there isn’t a downside to faster twist rates. Yes I know not everyone needs a high BC bullet. But how is it a downside on a modern mountain rifle? How exactly is terminal performance affected by a long for caliber bullet? How is it a bad thing if you need to take a longer shot?

I just think you’re missing an opportunity. There’s a reason for the crazy secondary market on Fieldcrafts and 223 Montana’s. And as far as getting closer I just crawled and stalked into 150 yards of extremely open country with my wife to shoot a big antelope buck. And she made a good one shot kill using a 223 ack with a high BC 75 amax, and the bullet didn’t bounce off at such close range.

I don't mind getting close. I used to bow hunt much more than rifle hunting. I started bow hunting as a kid in the 80's and have filled a lot of deer tags, 2 antelope, and some elk with bows. Even took 3 or 4 deer with a recurve during my college years.

I also cast bullets and sometimes carry an open sight 45/70 or 444 hunting. I may use my 358 BLR for my cow hunt this week if they're mostly holding in the trees. I took a buck Saturday at less than 100 yards in thick sage on the run with the lightweight AR 300 HAM'R I recently built for my kids to hunt with. I had a very accurate 6.5 Creedmoor set up for long range if needed but the way this opportunity happened I quickly switched rifles with my kid because the little 300 hamr with the stubby little 135g speers was the right tool for a quick off hand brush shot and worked great.

But, we don't get to shoot 100s of pigs a year in Idaho. At best its 2 deer if you draw an extra doe tag and then you might get an elk or a bear. It maybe several years before we draw a good tag and when we do it's public ground and often steep rugged country or wide open desert country. When we get those rare good tags we want a gun that can cover different situations well. Rangefinders and dialing have made longer shots much more doable than they were thirty years ago.

One of the main advantages of high bc for me is less wind drift. The wind blows a lot around here and
Its hard to gauge. Especially across a big wide canyon with varying gusts. High bcs can make what I call midrange shots much more doable say 400-700 yards. I rarely shoot game beyond that because the set up needs to be near perfect for me to shoot further out. I need a solid rest, game that's holding still, and a confident wind call to even consider a longer shot.

I've drawn 1 rifle tag for antelope in a lifetime of trying. Then my wife booked some important family stuff and travel starting at 10 AM opening day. My friend and i left early opening morning and I took a rifle I had built that shoots very well and I'd been getting excellent groups and first round hits centered on a 16" plate at 1000. That gun without the scope only weighs 7 pounds but can cover a lot of bases.

About 8:30 we found a good speed goat buck but it was moving out and headed for private property. We couldn't get closer so I found a little elevated spot to get prone on the bipod and had my friend laser me a range. He said it's too far its 550. I said that's all, it looked further. He started getting a rear bag out of a pack and I said I don't need it and fired as it stopped for a few seconds. I hit it perfect through the top of the heart and both lungs dropping it instantly.

I was 100 % confident in that shot as I lined it up. I knew I had a solid hold and knew that 215g Berger Hybrid would have no problem doing that job. I was home by 10am. When I want a fast twist rifle it's not to stunt shoot 1000 yards away. It's often with the thought of a 400 yard shot in the wind. I practice at 1000 because that gives me even more confidence on those 400-600 or so shots that are often the only opportunity I might get to fill that one tag I waited years to draw. When I get that good desert bull tag that I've only drawn twice I want a rifle I'm confident with because I may only get 1 opportunity and it will most likely be windy and probably out past 200.

Bb

After my novel one more chapter, a marketing point. In doing product development I used to use a method called conjoint analysis. It's a pretty complicated but very powerful tool that helps you build a product designed to best appeal to your target market segment. Different attributes of products have different levels of utility for certain people.

Some just do the same old thing and play to the masses where everyone else plays. But there is huge money to be made on those often smaller segments whose needs aren't being met. If you identify that segment and use conjoint analysis to target it by developing products that meet their needs you can own that whole segment.

However, a lot of businesses don't want to do that. Not just in this industry but in every industry. But targeting these missed segments can lead to ground breaking trend setting things that the masses soon follow. Innovative companies can become giants as the rest of the world catches on. Think Apple and companies like them. Even tesla. Throw out the old rules and start a new trend that will dominate as it crosses into the mainstream.

I know that Gunwerks gets some harsh treatment around here but they are one of the companies in our industry that are trying to meet the needs of a smaller and often overlooked segment of hunters. They are innovating and breaking trail and getting a premium price for their high end products because they are listening and doing and asking the right people the right questions. They are leaders in long range hunting and the things they are doing continue to draw more and more interest from the mainstream.

Not everyone wants to be the leader or the innovator and I guess that's ok. There are opportunities being missed everyday by companies just busy doing what they've always done the same way everyone has always done it.

Like a 10 twist 243. That's the way its always been done so that's how we're going to keep doing it. Then an innovator comes along and says hey there are some great heavy high bc 243 bullets around these days that didn't used to be available. Why not make a rifle that can use them of it doesn't prevent you from using the old round noses too. Some people see the advantages a high bc offers and the mainstream won't care either way. Let's own the high bc crowd because we can do it without losing the masses.

Bb

A sub 6# short-action 2.5"-2.6" boxed 223Rem w/1:7 and a sub 6# 2.8"-3" boxed 1:7 22Creed just don't seem like something a person should have to go to a gunsmith or custom-shop for, but, alas.............. Get with Hornady and make that 223 an AI version. Call it a 223PRC and have them load 75's and 88's.

The last deer I shot was ~50yds. Over the last 2 seasons I've taken more coyotes over 400 than under. That's not a lack of calling prowess, they've just been targets of opportunity when traveling between hunting spots and you either shoot them where you see them, or you don't.

Mr. Wilson, if you're looking for a 1st potential customer request for a blind magazine, by all means, consider it so-requested.

Blind mags
Correct mag lengths
Correctly twisted barrels
Seems easy enough to accommodate

Yes, it's extremely easy to satisfy everyone when you run multiple firearms industry companies........I guess that's why we've been in business 45+ years

Well, you bought a rifle company from the guy who answered his own phone and was very fond of saying:

"I'll build you whatever you want".

You took that away. Then you took a fairly long time to introduce your twist on the NULA, making changes that don't and won't appeal to the current NULA crowd. Maybe you'll be able to carve out a new niche' of folks willing to spend $3K + on an ultralight rifle with few/no options.

You bought a rifle design that has been full-length bedded from the get-go with the designer extolling the virtues of same since day-1, especially as it pertains to repeatable POA/POI retention.

You took that away. Which might have been acceptable had you saved weight by doing so, but, you added a hinged-floor-plate that is unlikely to add new users to the platform and WILL cause current users to pay a premium for previous generation blind boxes.

While I was certainly never privy to Mr. Forbes sales figures, I'd be willing to bet he ordered more 1:7/1:8 twist .224 and .243 than he did 1:10/12/14 over the last 10yrs, and certainly over the last 4.

Yet you "me too'd" the twist-rates of old rather than noticing the trend that's been ramping up since hand-held LRF's became affordable and ubiquitous.

No one begrudges you the swap to your own barrels and CNC processes, especially if those are going to speed up delivery times. You should've probably stopped there, produced some rifles, and gotten some feedback. Or, produced a prototype w/bottom metal and a free-floated bbl for SHOT and gotten some feedback.

I’m not opposed to fast twists and whatnot, but the man said he’d build you a rifle with the twist of your choice. Learn how to fugking read.

What is not to like about an inside release hinged floorplate? Bets the heck out of a blind box which is only good for single shots and double rifles as far as I am concerned.

I like the rifle as offered by Wilson and a friend does as well. Neither if us would want one with a blind box.
So, new users are coming in due to the addition of a hinged floorplate.

As to twist rates- faster is OK but certainly not a deal breaker to most and, as mentioned above, Wilson will provide other twist rates.

Not sure if deposits are required for orders but special orders certainly should with the caveat that if order is canceled the cost of optional items would not be refundable.

As to Fetterman, really, who wants him as a customer considering, most certainly, his unprofessional and immature postings and rants. I certainly do not consider him a person from whom advice about rifle calibers, twist rates etc would be solicited.

We are already integrating 1-10 twist .308s into the std production so both 1-10 and 1-11.25 will be options and the next run of .243 barrels will be 1-9 twist and this will be the new standard.

I will put the accuracy of our rifles up against any original Melvin built gun, they all shoot great or they don't ship.


The guys just built me a 7mm08 and it shoots GREAT!!! Weighs 6# 10.7oz unloaded with a 19oz scope/rings on it.

Just my "personal" opinion, but some of the posters on this forum should take a "hint" from the Texas Hunting Forum and be nice people !!!

A blind magazine has never dumped the reserve cartridges all over the shooters boots