FYI - Just went to the old NULA website and it redirected me here: https://wilsoncombat.com/long-guns/nula-bolt-action-rifles.html Looks like bottom metal, threaded barrels and $3,295. I still want one (the 16.5 inch .358 looks interesting if you're into little cannons like me. Though it's probably intended for a suppressor.) but, a little different aesthetic from the Melvin thing. I hope they sell a pile of them.
I’m not going to judge them yet, was probably too much to hope for that they wouldn’t change anything, but it’s a little disappointing to me. I was on the waiting list with wilson for a model 20 284. Just going on looks and adding bottom metal I’ll probably fix a up a couple more CLR’s and maybe pay up for a used NULA instead.
If I'm understanding correctly, the following are the options:
Available Calibers and Barrel Lengths .243 Winchester 20" and 22" (1-10 Twist) 6.5 Creedmoor 20" and 22" (1-8 Twist) 7mm08 Remington 20" (1-9 Twist) .308 Winchester 16.25" and 20" (1-11.25 Twist) .358 Winchester 16.25" and 20" (1-14 Twist)
They took the .243 out of consideration with the 1/10. I'm not against the .243 but I would have gone 6 CM for the 6mm bore offering.
7-08 would be ok for 162's but going 1/8 would have been good for anyone wanting to play with 180 eldm's and still would have worked for 162's.
Everyone has their own preferences. If they meet what you're looking for I'm sure they'll be fine rifles. The two bores that were the most interesting to me lost my interest with rate of twist and chambering.
If I'm understanding correctly, the following are the options:
They took the .243 out of consideration with the 1/10. I'm not against the .243 but I would have gone 6 CM for the 6mm bore offering.
Same - and a minimum of 1:8 twist.
I'm likely belaboring the point here but I just don't understand shutting the door to a lot of prospective customers with the given twist rates. Wilson kicks some tail with their custom pistols and I assume with the AR offerings but it appears there will be some learnings with the bolt actions – different audience for them.
Also, per the website, the barrel will be threaded 5/8"x24 - taint a lot of meat there for a lightweight barrel unless it's trumpeted somehow.
All conjecture on my part until they're at the actual offering stage. I'll shut up now.
Ronnie did it BEST and by miles. S/S through and through,(5) 8x40's on top,RPM on the money and throated exceptionally to boot. Hint...........
I don't know who Ronnie is and I've never seen the Wilson guns, but of what I've owned, the Barrett Fieldcrafts were the best of that series so far. Barrets had a few design updates that were improvements over the NULA and accuracy and quality that equaled or exceeded the earlier guns. Unfortunately, they've all been hindered by a really tough stock design. I've had ULAs, NULAs, Fieldcrafts and Colts and they all shot great, but with that stock, they all punched about 3-4 cartridges above their weight class. The dozen or so people that shot mine over the years all responded with !?@! that thing kicks hard immediately after the first shot, which tells me that I'm not the only one that feels that way.
From the pictures, the Wilson appears to have that same stock. I don't own a single one now and don't miss any of them.
Ronnie did it BEST and by miles. S/S through and through,(5) 8x40's on top,RPM on the money and throated exceptionally to boot. Hint...........
I don't know who Ronnie is and I've never seen the Wilson guns, but of what I've owned, the Barrett Fieldcrafts were the best of that series so far. Barrets had a few design updates that were improvements over the NULA and accuracy and quality that equaled or exceeded the earlier guns. Unfortunately, they've all been hindered by a really tough stock design. I've had ULAs, NULAs, Fieldcrafts and Colts and they all shot great, but with that stock, they all punched about 3-4 cartridges above their weight class. The dozen or so people that shot mine over the years all responded with !?@! that thing kicks hard immediately after the first shot, which tells me that I'm not the only one that feels that way.
From the pictures, the Wilson appears to have that same stock. I don't own a single one now and don't miss any of them.
One day I’d love to have someone explain the science of biomechanics and ergonomics in regards to stock fit and design/ felt recoil. My Colts in getting the NULA style treatment but my experience last fall with the factory stock (cheap plastic but very similar in shape from what I understand?) was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how pleasant the 7mm Rem mag recoil with the hard rubber pad was compared to my old 700bdl 7mm Rem mag with a Limbsaver was. Not that either are bad I just expected more from the Colt being a pound lighter. Not meaning to contradict your experience just a genuine curiosity.
Ronnie did it BEST and by miles. S/S through and through,(5) 8x40's on top,RPM on the money and throated exceptionally to boot. Hint...........
I don't know who Ronnie is and I've never seen the Wilson guns, but of what I've owned, the Barrett Fieldcrafts were the best of that series so far. Barrets had a few design updates that were improvements over the NULA and accuracy and quality that equaled or exceeded the earlier guns. Unfortunately, they've all been hindered by a really tough stock design. I've had ULAs, NULAs, Fieldcrafts and Colts and they all shot great, but with that stock, they all punched about 3-4 cartridges above their weight class. The dozen or so people that shot mine over the years all responded with !?@! that thing kicks hard immediately after the first shot, which tells me that I'm not the only one that feels that way.
From the pictures, the Wilson appears to have that same stock. I don't own a single one now and don't miss any of them.
One day I’d love to have someone explain the science of biomechanics and ergonomics in regards to stock fit and design/ felt recoil. My Colts in getting the NULA style treatment but my experience last fall with the factory stock (cheap plastic but very similar in shape from what I understand?) was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how pleasant the 7mm Rem mag recoil with the hard rubber pad was compared to my old 700bdl 7mm Rem mag with a Limbsaver was. Not that either are bad I just expected more from the Colt being a pound lighter. Not meaning to contradict your experience just a genuine curiosity.
Not sure of the science and I'm genuinely glad you like them because many say they do on here. I'm in no way doubting your experience. I've just yet to run into the person in real life that doesn't comment on the recoil. I always found Kimbers to be really light in recoil for me but my .30-06 NULA was as bad or worse than my similar weight .375 H&H in a Bansner.
Ronnie did it BEST and by miles. S/S through and through,(5) 8x40's on top,RPM on the money and throated exceptionally to boot. Hint...........
I don't know who Ronnie is and I've never seen the Wilson guns, but of what I've owned, the Barrett Fieldcrafts were the best of that series so far. Barrets had a few design updates that were improvements over the NULA and accuracy and quality that equaled or exceeded the earlier guns. Unfortunately, they've all been hindered by a really tough stock design. I've had ULAs, NULAs, Fieldcrafts and Colts and they all shot great, but with that stock, they all punched about 3-4 cartridges above their weight class. The dozen or so people that shot mine over the years all responded with !?@! that thing kicks hard immediately after the first shot, which tells me that I'm not the only one that feels that way.
From the pictures, the Wilson appears to have that same stock. I don't own a single one now and don't miss any of them.
One day I’d love to have someone explain the science of biomechanics and ergonomics in regards to stock fit and design/ felt recoil. My Colts in getting the NULA style treatment but my experience last fall with the factory stock (cheap plastic but very similar in shape from what I understand?) was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how pleasant the 7mm Rem mag recoil with the hard rubber pad was compared to my old 700bdl 7mm Rem mag with a Limbsaver was. Not that either are bad I just expected more from the Colt being a pound lighter. Not meaning to contradict your experience just a genuine curiosity.
Not sure of the science and I'm genuinely glad you like them because many say they do on here. I'm in no way doubting your experience. I've just yet to run into the person in real life that doesn't comment on the recoil. I always found Kimbers to be really light in recoil for me but my .30-06 NULA was as bad or worse than my similar weight .375 H&H in a Bansner.
Doesn’t surprise me just intriguing. I see the same thing in shotguns. I personally love the way old Winchester 97s fit and shoot but most the time if a buddy shoots one of mine you’d think I handed them an elephant gun from their reaction. I will say my boat paddle m77 in 243 is a mule kicking bastard for what it is.
Either different strokes for different folks. I’d love to add a few more colts or Nula style rifles to the herd when budgets allow.
Ronnie did it BEST and by miles. S/S through and through,(5) 8x40's on top,RPM on the money and throated exceptionally to boot. Hint...........
I don't know who Ronnie is and I've never seen the Wilson guns, but of what I've owned, the Barrett Fieldcrafts were the best of that series so far. Barrets had a few design updates that were improvements over the NULA and accuracy and quality that equaled or exceeded the earlier guns. Unfortunately, they've all been hindered by a really tough stock design. I've had ULAs, NULAs, Fieldcrafts and Colts and they all shot great, but with that stock, they all punched about 3-4 cartridges above their weight class. The dozen or so people that shot mine over the years all responded with !?@! that thing kicks hard immediately after the first shot, which tells me that I'm not the only one that feels that way.
From the pictures, the Wilson appears to have that same stock. I don't own a single one now and don't miss any of them.
One day I’d love to have someone explain the science of biomechanics and ergonomics in regards to stock fit and design/ felt recoil. My Colts in getting the NULA style treatment but my experience last fall with the factory stock (cheap plastic but very similar in shape from what I understand?) was the exact opposite. I couldn’t believe how pleasant the 7mm Rem mag recoil with the hard rubber pad was compared to my old 700bdl 7mm Rem mag with a Limbsaver was. Not that either are bad I just expected more from the Colt being a pound lighter. Not meaning to contradict your experience just a genuine curiosity.
Not sure of the science and I'm genuinely glad you like them because many say they do on here. I'm in no way doubting your experience. I've just yet to run into the person in real life that doesn't comment on the recoil. I always found Kimbers to be really light in recoil for me but my .30-06 NULA was as bad or worse than my similar weight .375 H&H in a Bansner.
Doesn’t surprise me just intriguing. I see the same thing in shotguns. I personally love the way old Winchester 97s fit and shoot but most the time if a buddy shoots one of mine you’d think I handed them an elephant gun from their reaction. I will say my boat paddle m77 in 243 is a mule kicking bastard for what it is.
Either different strokes for different folks. I’d love to add a few more colts or Nula style rifles to the herd when budgets allow.
They're good rifles if they work for you. Personally, I would go Barrett and then ULA/NULA if looking. I had a couple of NULAs that shot OK and several that were spectacular. I had an ULA .270 that may have been the most accurate rifle I ever owned but it did recoil hard for me. All the Barretts I had shot really well. Plus, I liked the bolt stop better than the NULA. If you work a NULA hard from the shoulder, occasionally the bolt will fly out the back of the receiver and you will then have to replace the spring that holds the bolt stop. I came up on on Mausers so can be a little rough working the bolt and have broken 5-6 bolt-stop springs on NULAs.
.... Plus, I liked the bolt stop better than the NULA. If you work a NULA hard from the shoulder, occasionally the bolt will fly out the back of the receiver and you will then have to replace the spring that holds the bolt stop. I came up on on Mausers so can be a little rough working the bolt and have broken 5-6 bolt-stop springs on NULAs.
Ouch! I work a bolt pretty good but I guess I'm swinging a finishing hammer and you're on a sledge!
I am just not reading what my Kimber's deliver that they do better. Another 'fire cult?
On the short actions, the 3" mag box can be very beneficial if you load your own in a FC, NULA, or Wilson. You just can't get that with a Montana.
For Fieldcrafts, you've got a barrel twist that gives you a lot of freedom in bullet choices. Montana's (at least previously), not so much. NULA's were made as you wished. Wilson's are limited on twist.
I've had to correct a Montana firing pin issue that would have been very irksome in the field since I wasn't aware of it. Luckily it was on the range.
I've had to correct barreled action alignment in a Montana. Fieldcrafts have been perfectly full length bedded. NULA's were as well. I can't speak to Wilson's but I'm guessing they are individually bedded to the action.
I like and use Montana's, but the Fieldcraft and NULA's have some plus's you just can't get with a Montana.
I am just not reading what my Kimber's deliver that they do better. Another 'fire cult?
On the short actions, the 3" mag box can be very beneficial if you load your own in a FC, NULA, or Wilson. You just can't get that with a Montana.
For Fieldcrafts, you've got a barrel twist that gives you a lot of freedom in bullet choices. Montana's (at least previously), not so much. NULA's were made as you wished. Wilson's are limited on twist.
I've had to correct a Montana firing pin issue that would have been very irksome in the field since I wasn't aware of it. Luckily it was on the range.
I've had to correct barreled action alignment in a Montana. Fieldcrafts have been perfectly full length bedded. NULA's were as well. I can't speak to Wilson's but I'm guessing they are individually bedded to the action.
I like and use Montana's, but the Fieldcraft and NULA's have some plus's you just can't get with a Montana.
At a price but I understand. My 270 Montana and 30-06 Subalpine both shoot well with the "checks" being made and sorted. Minor stuff.
I have 2 NULA’s and my oldest son has 1, I’m glad we got them when we did.
March two years ago I walked into my LGS (small town) and spotted a different looking 22 RF bolt gun. I asked to take a peak and it was a mint NULA. It had a Leupold VX2 3-9X EFR AO rimfire scope on it in Talley LW's. It was a consignment gun that was offered for $1800. It came home in a roundabout way... I have had it out a few times but still playing with ammunition. Looks promising at 50 yards. Sweet little rifle.
I am just not reading what my Kimber's deliver that they do better. Another 'fire cult?
On the short actions, the 3" mag box can be very beneficial if you load your own in a FC, NULA, or Wilson. You just can't get that with a Montana.
For Fieldcrafts, you've got a barrel twist that gives you a lot of freedom in bullet choices. Montana's (at least previously), not so much. NULA's were made as you wished. Wilson's are limited on twist.
I've had to correct a Montana firing pin issue that would have been very irksome in the field since I wasn't aware of it. Luckily it was on the range.
I've had to correct barreled action alignment in a Montana. Fieldcrafts have been perfectly full length bedded. NULA's were as well. I can't speak to Wilson's but I'm guessing they are individually bedded to the action.
I like and use Montana's, but the Fieldcraft and NULA's have some plus's you just can't get with a Montana.
On the flip side, Kimbers have some pluses not available for Fieldcraps and NULAs. Higher stock combs, more amibi friendly, lower scope mounts options, safeties that work the way they're supposed to (this is compared to ULA/NULA), lighter bolt throw. Also, Kimber customer service can be a little iffy, but they've been a consistent singular company for the last couple decades for parts and service. NULA (and the whole ULA Colt deal)/Barrett/Outkast, in comparison. Also, Outkast seems to use glossy paint on their stocks, which is certainly a choice.
Doesn’t surprise me just intriguing. I see the same thing in shotguns. I personally love the way old Winchester 97s fit and shoot but most the time if a buddy shoots one of mine you’d think I handed them an elephant gun from their reaction. I will say my boat paddle m77 in 243 is a mule kicking bastard for what it is.
Boat-Paddle 77’s have a very narrow contact-patch, it’s not very tall either so the recoil gets pretty focused to a small spot.
I have 2 NULA’s and my oldest son has 1, I’m glad we got them when we did.
March two years ago I walked into my LGS (small town) and spotted a different looking 22 RF bolt gun. I asked to take a peak and it was a mint NULA. It had a Leupold VX2 3-9X EFR AO rimfire scope on it in Talley LW's. It was a consignment gun that was offered for $1800. It came home in a roundabout way... I have had it out a few times but still playing with ammunition. Looks promising at 50 yards. Sweet little rifle.
Ed,
If ya get a chance try some SK Long Range Match in the Nula.
I have 2 NULA’s and my oldest son has 1, I’m glad we got them when we did.
LBP, If ya had to choose only one.
NULA or Rifles Inc,Strata?
Man that’s a tough question. I would say NULA if Melvin was still younger and running the company. Custom in every way and excellent parts and service.
Currently Rifle Inc. hands down. Uses a Remington 700 which is a great thing for parts availability, also custom in every way.
In all honesty my Strata is more accurate than my NULAs and has some things I prefer like no cheek piece on the stock.
Both are great rifles but if I was ordering today Rifles Inc. hands down. Just remembered if it matters the Wilson NULAs are not available left handed.
Edited to say I’ve heard some folks say Lex Webernick is hard to work with, that was not my experience. He is also the only custom rifle builder I’ve ever dealt with that delivered my rifle ahead of deadline.
Offerings right now: 243 step up .022" and you have: 6.5 cm step up + .020" and you get: 7MM-08 step up another +.024" and arrive at: 308 The next offering is a full .050" larger, the 350 winchester. There is an obvious choice for the missing gap, Mr Wilson: The 338 Federal
Got an lefty ULA and a Kimber Montana. Haven't had the opportunity to see advantages one over the other. Just wish there was more things to hunt locally, wish there were hogs around.
Offerings right now: 243 step up .022" and you have: 6.5 cm step up + .020" and you get: 7MM-08 step up another +.024" and arrive at: 308 The next offering is a full .050" larger, the 350 winchester. There is an obvious choice for the missing gap, Mr Wilson: The 338 Federal
Offerings right now: 243 step up .022" and you have: 6.5 cm step up + .020" and you get: 7MM-08 step up another +.024" and arrive at: 308 The next offering is a full .050" larger, the 350 winchester. There is an obvious choice for the missing gap, Mr Wilson: The 338 Federal
Offerings right now: 243 step up .022" and you have: 6.5 cm step up + .020" and you get: 7MM-08 step up another +.024" and arrive at: 308 The next offering is a full .050" larger, the 350 winchester. There is an obvious choice for the missing gap, Mr Wilson: The 338 Federal
What is a 350 Winchester?
Like all the the current wilson/nula offerings except the creedmoor, it's just a bastard of the 308. Oh, I see what you did. My mistake, the 358 Winchester
For the price of the Wilson Combat NULA (or the price Fieldcrafts go for these days), just build a custom rifle with the specs you want. Team up with a good smith and its quite doable. Also, paint is cheap!
For the price of the Wilson Combat NULA (or the price Fieldcrafts go for these days), just build a custom rifle with the specs you want. Team up with a good smith and its quite doable. Also, paint is cheap!
I wish Wilson great success, but, considering current pricing, chamberings, and twist-rates, I'll buy Kimber Montanas and factory duplicate contour Lilja bbls twisted to my preference and chambered in whatever suits my fancy.
I have nothing but Best Wishes for them,but the cart is soooooooooo fhuqking far in front of the fhuqking horse,that I'm patiently awaiting the punch line. Fascinating to me,that folks try sooooooooo hard,to fhuqk EASY schit up. Hint...............
I wish Wilson great success, but, considering current pricing, chamberings, and twist-rates, I'll buy Kimber Montanas and factory duplicate contour Lilja bbls twisted to my preference and chambered in whatever suits my fancy.
When Wilson said "We will begin production soon, Melvin has sent us the drawings and we are scanning them" it was obvious it would be a long and winding road to production.
How many companies need to attempt to make money on this design before acknowledging it will never happen?
There is no business plan that allows a $4k-$5k custom rifle to be sold for $2k-$3k profitably.
While I have yet to shoot it I am pretty impressed with my recently acquired $1500 Rem M700 Ti 270 Win. My Kimbers have proven fine as well. Cults I guess?
The giant wart on the end of the barrel will keep me from gettting one. I get that the new trend is to be sniper but damn nothing ruins the lines on a small svelte rifle like a big a** bulb on the barrel. Should at least be an option on a rifle that spendy.
I'm curious how many of the people bashing our new rifles have actually handled and/or shot one?
I can tell you that personally I'm really proud of what our team has done so far with this project. Especially if you factor in that we only had one rifle we borrowed from Melvin and some crude paper prints and later a second loaner rifle from Richard Mann to go by. Another thing I want to mention is how impressive the quality of Melvin built rifles are after seeing the VERY limited resources he had. It proved to me that Melvin is one heck of a skilled gunsmith!!! While on the subject of Melvin, he and his wife Patty are two of the nicest people I've ever met, truly special people.
While we stayed pretty true to Melvin's original proven action design we have made some noticeable improvements.
ID of the receiver is wire EDM cut so we can hold tolerances to less than .001" Bolt is fully machined out of bar stock on state of the art CNC equipment The bolt handle is mechanically attached to the bolt instead of being brazed like Melvin did it which makes it stronger The bolt knob is user interchangeable The Bolt stop is beefier and fully machined from bar stock instead of a stamping, it also has a heavier stainless spring Receiver, bolt and bolt handle are DLC coated by Armorlube and don't require any lube The stainless 416R WC mfg barrel is Armor Tuff coated for corrosion resistance Scope base screws are 8-40 thread All standard SKU barrels are threaded 5/8-24 for muzzle devices or suppressors We added hinged floorplate bottom metal that's fully machined out of 7075 T6 aluminum bar stock and hard anodized AG composites is making us a awesome stock that's as light and strong as the labor intensive one Melvin made The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger We've been able to keep the guns lightweight, before I added a suppressor and optic my 16.2" .308 weighed 4# 12.8oz
We have been extremely happy with the overall accuracy of the guns with 5/8"-3/4" 100yd groups being very common. I've shot several 1/2" groups with my personal .358 Win and Lehigh Defense bullets.
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
Some have asked "why a .358 Win"? Well a few of my hunting buddies and I are big .35cal fans and we figured since we were already making barrels for us, why not offer them to customers too. Also, since we already make .338 Fed barrels for large frame ARs there is no reason we can't for a NULA if there is enough demand.
The next calibers to be available will be for the model 20S: .223, .300 Blackout, 300 HAM'R and 350 Legend
One last thing. Unlike Melvin's business model of dealing directly with the customer and "you dream it and we can build it", WC sells the majority of it's products through distributors like Sports South and key dealers. These customers want the # of SKUs to be kept to a minimum. This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger
What was the potential safety issue - and how did you fix it?
Thanks for your post above.
Kinda like the Rem 700 deal. We found that a certain combination of pulling the trigger when it was in the rear or middle position, then moving it to the other rear or middle position, that when you pushed it to the forward fire position it would fire. Sorry, this has been awhile ago and I don't remember the exact sequence. If you never pulled the trigger while it was in either of the "safe" positions it wasn't an issue, but you know lawyers and something like this only has to happen once....
Timney has eliminated the possibility of this issue with the new trigger
The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger
What was the potential safety issue - and how did you fix it?
Thanks for your post above.
Kinda like the Rem 700 deal. We found that a certain combination of pulling the trigger when it was in the rear or middle position, then moving it to the other rear or middle position, that when you pushed it to the forward fire position it would fire. Sorry, this has been awhile ago and I don't remember the exact sequence. If you never pulled the trigger while it was in either of the "safe" positions it wasn't an issue, but you know lawyers and something like this only has to happen once....
Timney has eliminated the possibility of this issue with the new trigger
👍 So it locks the bolt - can you still cycle the action on “safe” or is it a simple 2 position that locks the bolt?
The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger
What was the potential safety issue - and how did you fix it?
Thanks for your post above.
Kinda like the Rem 700 deal. We found that a certain combination of pulling the trigger when it was in the rear or middle position, then moving it to the other rear or middle position, that when you pushed it to the forward fire position it would fire. Sorry, this has been awhile ago and I don't remember the exact sequence. If you never pulled the trigger while it was in either of the "safe" positions it wasn't an issue, but you know lawyers and something like this only has to happen once....
Timney has eliminated the possibility of this issue with the new trigger
👍 So it locks the bolt - can you still cycle the action on “safe” or is it a simple 2 position that locks the bolt?
Simple 2 position like a Browning, Savage or Tikka for example
Bill, The targets provided with your rifles is deceiving to me when i look at them if they are shooting 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch... Maybe change the target to something with grids on it a 1/4 inch in size ...maybe its just me but when i see the 3 shots outside of the square I really have no idea what group the $3000.00 dollar rifle shot....best of luck with the new venture
Bill, The targets provided with your rifles is deceiving to me when i look at them if they are shooting 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch... Maybe change the target to something with grids on it a 1/4 inch in size ...maybe its just me but when i see the 3 shots outside of the square I really have no idea what group the $3000.00 dollar rifle shot....best of luck with the new venture
Melvin didnt send a target unless he sighted your rifle in but some how i think you may already know this...all i am saying is make yourself look good and send one that shows what it will do and what your paying for
I'm curious how many of the people bashing our new rifles have actually handled and/or shot one?
I can tell you that personally I'm really proud of what our team has done so far with this project.
...
We have been extremely happy with the overall accuracy of the guns with 5/8"-3/4" 100yd groups being very common. I've shot several 1/2" groups with my personal .358 Win and Lehigh Defense bullets.
...
Some have asked "why a .358 Win"? Well a few of my hunting buddies and I are big .35cal fans and we figured since we were already making barrels for us, why not offer them to customers too.
Mr. Wilson, Your guns look awesome and I want a .358 so bad I can taste it.
As for the bashing - did you miss the Melvin Forbes shrine on the way in? It's right across from the Ronnie Barrett shrine. If your rifle doesn't fit in a very small, very precise box, these dudes are going to let you know that it doesn't fit in that very small, very precise box. You're not building guns exactly like Melvin did, and you're not building guns exactly like Barrett did. And, there's others who just can't afford your rifles (which is obviously your fault!).
I love my 'Fire peeps but, fhuqk them! You have one of the best rifle formats EVER made. And, by all accounts, the chops to deliver an awesome product. Your rifles will be cult classics on here in no time. Mixed in with the jealousy, posturing and bullscheit is probably some constructive feedback. Listen or not, it's your rifle.
Personally, that .358 is where it's at. What a weapon!
Please twist the .223 right with a 1-8 or 1-7. Give us a little more room in the mag box then 2.25 too. 16” barrel. Good to hear on the locking safety, I’ll be in the market for one.
well Melvins rifles do have a cult like following and I am sure thats why he managed to stay in business for so long and why some one bought the rights to his rifle, he also received the golden bullseye NRA pioneer award and Mr. Wilson even said he was a great gunsmith so i guess you are partly right
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
.....
... This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
I wish you and your company the best on this. I want it to be successful.
I'm doubtful that the .308 is where most rate of twist complaints are focused. The 103 eldx and 108 eldm aren't an option for the .243 as produced with 1/10. I would guess most buyers would prefer 6 CM over .243 at this point but that's not an argument against the .243, just for the 6 CM.
It's nice to read that you'll customize per a buyer's preference at retail price. The option to order exactly what a customer wants nullifies my complaints about chamberings or twists.
Paper "test" targets,appeal to me less than none. Mainly because nobody is going to shoot or load as well as I. What does concern me is cartridge selection,RPM,throat geometry and COAL. Hint.
It's too bad that what could have been the pinnacle,is reduced to an also ran,due same. Hint.
Ronnie rung the bell,which is more than loud and clear. Hint..............
I'm curious how many of the people bashing our new rifles have actually handled and/or shot one?
I can tell you that personally I'm really proud of what our team has done so far with this project. Especially if you factor in that we only had one rifle we borrowed from Melvin and some crude paper prints and later a second loaner rifle from Richard Mann to go by. Another thing I want to mention is how impressive the quality of Melvin built rifles are after seeing the VERY limited resources he had. It proved to me that Melvin is one heck of a skilled gunsmith!!! While on the subject of Melvin, he and his wife Patty are two of the nicest people I've ever met, truly special people.
While we stayed pretty true to Melvin's original proven action design we have made some noticeable improvements.
ID of the receiver is wire EDM cut so we can hold tolerances to less than .001" Bolt is fully machined out of bar stock on state of the art CNC equipment The bolt handle is mechanically attached to the bolt instead of being brazed like Melvin did it which makes it stronger The bolt knob is user interchangeable The Bolt stop is beefier and fully machined from bar stock instead of a stamping, it also has a heavier stainless spring Receiver, bolt and bolt handle are DLC coated by Armorlube and don't require any lube The stainless 416R WC mfg barrel is Armor Tuff coated for corrosion resistance Scope base screws are 8-40 thread All standard SKU barrels are threaded 5/8-24 for muzzle devices or suppressors We added hinged floorplate bottom metal that's fully machined out of 7075 T6 aluminum bar stock and hard anodized AG composites is making us a awesome stock that's as light and strong as the labor intensive one Melvin made The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger We've been able to keep the guns lightweight, before I added a suppressor and optic my 16.2" .308 weighed 4# 12.8oz
We have been extremely happy with the overall accuracy of the guns with 5/8"-3/4" 100yd groups being very common. I've shot several 1/2" groups with my personal .358 Win and Lehigh Defense bullets.
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
Some have asked "why a .358 Win"? Well a few of my hunting buddies and I are big .35cal fans and we figured since we were already making barrels for us, why not offer them to customers too. Also, since we already make .338 Fed barrels for large frame ARs there is no reason we can't for a NULA if there is enough demand.
The next calibers to be available will be for the model 20S: .223, .300 Blackout, 300 HAM'R and 350 Legend
One last thing. Unlike Melvin's business model of dealing directly with the customer and "you dream it and we can build it", WC sells the majority of it's products through distributors like Sports South and key dealers. These customers want the # of SKUs to be kept to a minimum. This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
It isn't so much people bashing your rifles, but rather not building a rifle to what people are looking for. Because of advancements in bullet technology, some of the old SAAMI dimensions and specifications are a bit long in the tooth. That is part of the reason for the success of some of the "new" cartridges like 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm PRC, and .300 PRC. The new cartridges are optimized for these new bullets, but they can breathe new life into the old rounds and offer performance on par with the new stuff.
People want to shoot high-BC bullets. That means longer. That means the 1:9" .243 Winchester doesn't work for the guy wanting to shoot a 108 gr Hornady. The 7mm Remington Magnum is another cartridge that is rarely twisted faster than 1:9.25"; too slow for the highest BC bullets in the 175 gr. plus range. The old 1:10" .270 Winchester just isn't up to par with the 175 gr. bullets out now. From most shooters' experience, it is hard to have "too much twist" except in the most extreme cases. For instance, my 1:10" .308s have zero problems shooting 150 gr. hunting bullets, but my 1:12" barrels do struggle with 185 gr Juggernauts.
It isn't a personal jab at you, your company, or the rifles you're producing. It is a matter of the modern shooter not being your target audience.
I’m convinced a lot of the fussing about twist rates, mine included, is because of what people think they might do, someday, rather than are actually doing. Certainly a .308 is going to be at its best with bullets of modest weight simply due to limited powder capacity. Some others, OTOH, can make use of longer ones, and in my limited experience I’ve seen no downside to the 1-7 in my 6 CM when shooting bullets in the 95-100gr range, and I like the way it shoots heavies from 107-115gr. Still, I can’t imagine any serious limitations for general hunting use with the ones you’ve chosen, except maybe for those who routinely shoot far in high winds.
What you’re doing is IMO a real service, providing high-quality and ready to go hunting rifles without the custom drama. There’s a fine smith just down the road from me, but his wait times are incompatible with my life expectancy. The floorplate is a big improvement IMO, again on a hunting rifle. Looking forward to the chance to handle one someday.
Retard Twist Rates,simply slam doors of opportunity SHUT. Doubly so on all things threaded for a can and the ability to shoot subsonic fodder. Stabilization is a gross function of twist rate and lineal velocity conjoined,to real gross RPM. It is a Blue Haired Cat Lady Notion,that a 1-10" 308Win isn't as "forgiving" as one 11.25 or 12"(I shoot them all). Hint.
Stone Age Myths don't bolster Sales and is yet another avenue where Ronnie knocked it out of The Park. The 243Win example,is more than a "touch" glaring,as this newest version of the theme is slated as 1-10",where the Fieldcrafts were 1-7". Hint.
It is a fascinating constant,that Manufacturers remain fhuqking CLUELESS to mechanics. Hint................
I'm curious how many of the people bashing our new rifles have actually handled and/or shot one?
I can tell you that personally I'm really proud of what our team has done so far with this project. Especially if you factor in that we only had one rifle we borrowed from Melvin and some crude paper prints and later a second loaner rifle from Richard Mann to go by. Another thing I want to mention is how impressive the quality of Melvin built rifles are after seeing the VERY limited resources he had. It proved to me that Melvin is one heck of a skilled gunsmith!!! While on the subject of Melvin, he and his wife Patty are two of the nicest people I've ever met, truly special people.
While we stayed pretty true to Melvin's original proven action design we have made some noticeable improvements.
ID of the receiver is wire EDM cut so we can hold tolerances to less than .001" Bolt is fully machined out of bar stock on state of the art CNC equipment The bolt handle is mechanically attached to the bolt instead of being brazed like Melvin did it which makes it stronger The bolt knob is user interchangeable The Bolt stop is beefier and fully machined from bar stock instead of a stamping, it also has a heavier stainless spring Receiver, bolt and bolt handle are DLC coated by Armorlube and don't require any lube The stainless 416R WC mfg barrel is Armor Tuff coated for corrosion resistance Scope base screws are 8-40 thread All standard SKU barrels are threaded 5/8-24 for muzzle devices or suppressors We added hinged floorplate bottom metal that's fully machined out of 7075 T6 aluminum bar stock and hard anodized AG composites is making us a awesome stock that's as light and strong as the labor intensive one Melvin made The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger We've been able to keep the guns lightweight, before I added a suppressor and optic my 16.2" .308 weighed 4# 12.8oz
We have been extremely happy with the overall accuracy of the guns with 5/8"-3/4" 100yd groups being very common. I've shot several 1/2" groups with my personal .358 Win and Lehigh Defense bullets.
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
Some have asked "why a .358 Win"? Well a few of my hunting buddies and I are big .35cal fans and we figured since we were already making barrels for us, why not offer them to customers too. Also, since we already make .338 Fed barrels for large frame ARs there is no reason we can't for a NULA if there is enough demand.
The next calibers to be available will be for the model 20S: .223, .300 Blackout, 300 HAM'R and 350 Legend
One last thing. Unlike Melvin's business model of dealing directly with the customer and "you dream it and we can build it", WC sells the majority of it's products through distributors like Sports South and key dealers. These customers want the # of SKUs to be kept to a minimum. This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
It isn't so much people bashing your rifles, but rather not building a rifle to what people are looking for. Because of advancements in bullet technology, some of the old SAAMI dimensions and specifications are a bit long in the tooth. That is part of the reason for the success of some of the "new" cartridges like 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm PRC, and .300 PRC. The new cartridges are optimized for these new bullets, but they can breathe new life into the old rounds and offer performance on par with the new stuff.
People want to shoot high-BC bullets. That means longer. That means the 1:9" .243 Winchester doesn't work for the guy wanting to shoot a 108 gr Hornady. The 7mm Remington Magnum is another cartridge that is rarely twisted faster than 1:9.25"; too slow for the highest BC bullets in the 175 gr. plus range. The old 1:10" .270 Winchester just isn't up to par with the 175 gr. bullets out now. From most shooters' experience, it is hard to have "too much twist" except in the most extreme cases. For instance, my 1:10" .308s have zero problems shooting 150 gr. hunting bullets, but my 1:12" barrels do struggle with 185 gr Juggernauts.
It isn't a personal jab at you, your company, or the rifles you're producing. It is a matter of the modern shooter not being your target audience.
Drop_Point, You're points are valad and noted. Changing twist rates is no big deal at our barrel shop.
I’m a pretty strong advocate for your products. Drop_point’s commentary is spot on.
A fast twist 6mm Creedmoor or a 7mm PRC would garner some attention.
As much as I like the 308, reality is, as my local smith said to me the other day while building another custom PRS rifle, “The 6.5 Creedmoor did to the 308 what the 308 did to the 30-06. And the 6mm Creedmoor is doing that to the 243 Win.”
All of the Creedmoors, 6.5, 6 and 22, are worth a look, in my opinion.
Tikka just came out with a 1 in 8 twist 243 Win, and I’m scratching my head over why it’s not a 6mm Creedmoor?
I'm curious how many of the people bashing our new rifles have actually handled and/or shot one?
I can tell you that personally I'm really proud of what our team has done so far with this project. Especially if you factor in that we only had one rifle we borrowed from Melvin and some crude paper prints and later a second loaner rifle from Richard Mann to go by. Another thing I want to mention is how impressive the quality of Melvin built rifles are after seeing the VERY limited resources he had. It proved to me that Melvin is one heck of a skilled gunsmith!!! While on the subject of Melvin, he and his wife Patty are two of the nicest people I've ever met, truly special people.
While we stayed pretty true to Melvin's original proven action design we have made some noticeable improvements.
ID of the receiver is wire EDM cut so we can hold tolerances to less than .001" Bolt is fully machined out of bar stock on state of the art CNC equipment The bolt handle is mechanically attached to the bolt instead of being brazed like Melvin did it which makes it stronger The bolt knob is user interchangeable The Bolt stop is beefier and fully machined from bar stock instead of a stamping, it also has a heavier stainless spring Receiver, bolt and bolt handle are DLC coated by Armorlube and don't require any lube The stainless 416R WC mfg barrel is Armor Tuff coated for corrosion resistance Scope base screws are 8-40 thread All standard SKU barrels are threaded 5/8-24 for muzzle devices or suppressors We added hinged floorplate bottom metal that's fully machined out of 7075 T6 aluminum bar stock and hard anodized AG composites is making us a awesome stock that's as light and strong as the labor intensive one Melvin made The new Timney trigger locks the bolt down when on safety and has eliminated the potential safety issue of the original trigger We've been able to keep the guns lightweight, before I added a suppressor and optic my 16.2" .308 weighed 4# 12.8oz
We have been extremely happy with the overall accuracy of the guns with 5/8"-3/4" 100yd groups being very common. I've shot several 1/2" groups with my personal .358 Win and Lehigh Defense bullets.
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
Some have asked "why a .358 Win"? Well a few of my hunting buddies and I are big .35cal fans and we figured since we were already making barrels for us, why not offer them to customers too. Also, since we already make .338 Fed barrels for large frame ARs there is no reason we can't for a NULA if there is enough demand.
The next calibers to be available will be for the model 20S: .223, .300 Blackout, 300 HAM'R and 350 Legend
One last thing. Unlike Melvin's business model of dealing directly with the customer and "you dream it and we can build it", WC sells the majority of it's products through distributors like Sports South and key dealers. These customers want the # of SKUs to be kept to a minimum. This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
It isn't so much people bashing your rifles, but rather not building a rifle to what people are looking for. Because of advancements in bullet technology, some of the old SAAMI dimensions and specifications are a bit long in the tooth. That is part of the reason for the success of some of the "new" cartridges like 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm PRC, and .300 PRC. The new cartridges are optimized for these new bullets, but they can breathe new life into the old rounds and offer performance on par with the new stuff.
People want to shoot high-BC bullets. That means longer. That means the 1:9" .243 Winchester doesn't work for the guy wanting to shoot a 108 gr Hornady. The 7mm Remington Magnum is another cartridge that is rarely twisted faster than 1:9.25"; too slow for the highest BC bullets in the 175 gr. plus range. The old 1:10" .270 Winchester just isn't up to par with the 175 gr. bullets out now. From most shooters' experience, it is hard to have "too much twist" except in the most extreme cases. For instance, my 1:10" .308s have zero problems shooting 150 gr. hunting bullets, but my 1:12" barrels do struggle with 185 gr Juggernauts.
It isn't a personal jab at you, your company, or the rifles you're producing. It is a matter of the modern shooter not being your target audience.
Drop_Point, You're points are valad and noted. Changing twist rates is no big deal at our barrel shop.
I am glad to hear there is some flexibility there. I've got a stack of your Bullet Proof line in my pistols and like your Sig grip modules quite a bit.
I don't fret much over twist rates but I do care about a light rifle. But these are out of my price range anyway. I could never afford the NULA either which is why I use the Colt Light Rifle
I can’t see a downside here. Great for handloaders and factory ammo users both. Thread non magnums at 18” and mags at 20”. Or don’t thread at all and use 22”-24” barrels. Then they can’t be cut wherever one chooses.
Some feedback for Mr. Wilson: It's impossible to please everyone but I do like the addition of a floorplate. A more conservative and traditional bolt knob is more appealing to most, I think. I like the coatings you are applying. What is the weight on the stock please? I hope its lines are more slender than Melvin's stock (less meat around the action and barrel channel would be nice). Thx.
Some feedback for Mr. Wilson: It's impossible to please everyone but I do like the addition of a floorplate. A more conservative and traditional bolt knob is more appealing to most, I think. I like the coatings you are applying. What is the weight on the stock please? I hope its lines are more slender than Melvin's stock (less meat around the action and barrel channel would be nice). Thx.
Some feedback for Mr. Wilson: It's impossible to please everyone but I do like the addition of a floorplate. A more conservative and traditional bolt knob is more appealing to most, I think. I like the coatings you are applying. What is the weight on the stock please? I hope its lines are more slender than Melvin's stock (less meat around the action and barrel channel would be nice). Thx.
Floorplate on an ultralight? Niga please
It weighs 2-3 ounces I think and the NULAs often have feeding problems with the blind mag. I have one right now that is having feeding problems because the mag spring is not anchored in any way and does an end over when I reassemble and try to feed rounds. It's a problem.
Little Dick, all of us learn incrementally. You would improve yourself, when you post something useful that you've learned or discovered (that someone else perhaps hasn't learned yet) if you'd just post it without hurling insults.
Barrel twist rates were picked because they shoot common hunting bullets the best. Sure a 1-10 twist .308 will shoot 175gr Sierra Matchkings better, but our 1-11.25 will shoot popular 150-165gr hunting bullets great. We've already made some 1-10 .308 barrels too.
.....
... This doesn't mean we can't step out of this box some if a customer wants to order a rifle direct at retail price. Things such as different barrel lengths, crowned muzzle (no wart), different finishes, etc could be done.
I wish you and your company the best on this. I want it to be successful.
I'm doubtful that the .308 is where most rate of twist complaints are focused. The 103 eldx and 108 eldm aren't an option for the .243 as produced with 1/10. I would guess most buyers would prefer 6 CM over .243 at this point but that's not an argument against the .243, just for the 6 CM.
It's nice to read that you'll customize per a buyer's preference at retail price. The option to order exactly what a customer wants nullifies my complaints about chamberings or twists.
Little Dick, all of us learn incrementally. You would improve yourself, when you post something useful that you've learned or discovered (that someone else perhaps hasn't learned yet) if you'd just post it without hurling insults.
TurdQueen,
It weren't my intent to horn you up,so you could wax eloquent on your Homoerotic Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
I'll feign my GREAT "Surprise!" that the properties of adhesive tape,were unknown to you. Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always make gains by simply taking notes and applying same,when I Post something. Hint.
Rest fhuqking ASSURED,nobody can insult you,better than YOU,by simply doing your best. Hint.
I've long been an ADL Slut,in both OEM and Custom guise. My heart flutters,when I get a crack at a Used Rifle that's a blind magazine and "doesn't shoot". Hint.(grin)
Have a Montucky 243 that should hit the porch today,that is wearing a Reupold and a PRIME candidate for "doesn't shoot",though in the end it will undoubtedly dazzle. Scope swap,mounting system swap and correct assembly RELIABLY do fhuqking wonders. Add Alpha brass and projectiles of repute wearing a Smooch and it's a fhuqking given. Hint.
Key is to assemble,without follower spring riding betwixt magbox and the stock proper. Tough to beat Super88 there. Hint.
Little Dick, all of us learn incrementally. You would improve yourself, when you post something useful that you've learned or discovered (that someone else perhaps hasn't learned yet) if you'd just post it without hurling insults.
He doesn't know rat schitt. Mindless monkey pounding keys, with cut and paste and the same bullcrap endless all nauseum. Hint.
Pimps chicom crap and other junk. Helps justify bribing the forum to keep from booting his worthless ass. .
I've blind magazine Flyweights in 223,223AI,270,6BR,Seex Kreed,243Win,6-06 and 7 Whizzum. All my Montucky 7 Whizzum's (3),hold three rounds in the belly and will Smooch/house .796 BC 180's. Hint.
You'll go down as a LEGEND around here if you nail the .223
1-7" twist.
Mag box dimensions that allow heavy for caliber bullets to fit/feed.
Throated to allow said bullets to touch lands at mag box lengths.
Most of us build them this way but wouldn't have to if you were on the ball.
Good luck man!
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
You'll go down as a LEGEND around here if you nail the .223
1-7" twist.
Mag box dimensions that allow heavy for caliber bullets to fit/feed.
Throated to allow said bullets to touch lands at mag box lengths.
Most of us build them this way but wouldn't have to if you were on the ball.
Good luck man!
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
...and there was great weeping and gnashing of teeth...
I'm amazed that CZ and Browning, of all companies, are two that offer fast twist barrels. I know that some don't like their actions for various reasons, but at least they listened.
As I understand it, it was one guy at Browning that listened and made it happen. I believe it was a product manager but could be wrong.
You'll go down as a LEGEND around here if you nail the .223
1-7" twist.
Mag box dimensions that allow heavy for caliber bullets to fit/feed.
Throated to allow said bullets to touch lands at mag box lengths.
Most of us build them this way but wouldn't have to if you were on the ball.
Good luck man!
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
You need to get out of the AR mindset. The modern bolt action 223 buyer is purchasing the rifle to take advantage of sleek bullets like the 88 grain ELD-M, which means a longer than AR mag box, and twist that's capable of handling the longest bullets out there.
You'll go down as a LEGEND around here if you nail the .223
1-7" twist.
Mag box dimensions that allow heavy for caliber bullets to fit/feed.
Throated to allow said bullets to touch lands at mag box lengths.
Most of us build them this way but wouldn't have to if you were on the ball.
Good luck man!
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
You need to get out of the AR mindset. The modern bolt action 223 buyer is purchasing the rifle to take advantage of sleek bullets like the 88 grain ELD-M, which means a longer than AR mag box, and twist that's capable of handling the longest bullets out there.
You'll go down as a LEGEND around here if you nail the .223
1-7" twist.
Mag box dimensions that allow heavy for caliber bullets to fit/feed.
Throated to allow said bullets to touch lands at mag box lengths.
Most of us build them this way but wouldn't have to if you were on the ball.
Good luck man!
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
Why do quality bolt rifles keep getting cock blocked by AR requirements? Do manufacturers not understand they’re two separate things?
I love the fact that you guys are lecturing one of the few individuals who has found a way to be successful in the custom gunmaking world on his business practices. There is little chance that the cost of changing the barrel twist could be offset by five guys on this board who would buy a rifle because it had a faster twist. He is, after all, running a business.
For the record, and from the horse's mouth, Barrett used a 1-7" twist on the Fieldcraft because they were already making those barrels for the REC7 (the piston version, not the current direct-impingement carbine). It was, HINT, a business decision.
We're trying to help the guy out, especially since essentially no one has gotten a modern bolt action 223 right from the factory. Every week on this forum and others there are guys talking about 223 builds, rebarreling rifles and modifying mag boxes or swapping to longer mag setups. Reminds a guy a little of the custom 1911 market, before manufacturers like Wilson Combat got into the business...
I love the fact that you guys are lecturing one of the few individuals who has found a way to be successful in the custom gunmaking world on his business practices. There is little chance that the cost of changing the barrel twist could be offset by five guys on this board who would buy a rifle because it had a faster twist. He is, after all, running a business.
For the record, and from the horse's mouth, Barrett used a 1-7" twist on the Fieldcraft because they were already making those barrels for the REC7 (the piston version, not the current direct-impingement carbine). It was, HINT, a business decision.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will ALWAYS be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.
Do not "forget",that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery,as you Whine loud,long and often. Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I love the fact that you guys are lecturing one of the few individuals who has found a way to be successful in the custom gunmaking world on his business practices. There is little chance that the cost of changing the barrel twist could be offset by five guys on this board who would buy a rifle because it had a faster twist. He is, after all, running a business.
For the record, and from the horse's mouth, Barrett used a 1-7" twist on the Fieldcraft because they were already making those barrels for the REC7 (the piston version, not the current direct-impingement carbine). It was, HINT, a business decision.
I love the fact that you guys are lecturing one of the few individuals who has found a way to be successful in the custom gunmaking world on his business practices. There is little chance that the cost of changing the barrel twist could be offset by five guys on this board who would buy a rifle because it had a faster twist. He is, after all, running a business.
For the record, and from the horse's mouth, Barrett used a 1-7" twist on the Fieldcraft because they were already making those barrels for the REC7 (the piston version, not the current direct-impingement carbine). It was, HINT, a business decision.
Earlier in this same thread:
Originally Posted by BWilson
Changing twist rates is no big deal at our barrel shop.
Confirmed that the ID of the mag box is 2.245" so what you guys are asking for could certainly be done since we make 1-7 bbls already. Anyone have any idea what reamer is used for the long throat chamber? We buy most of ours from PT&G since we run carbide.
Confirmed that the ID of the mag box is 2.245" so what you guys are asking for could certainly be done since we make 1-7 bbls already. Anyone have any idea what reamer is used for the long throat chamber? We buy most of ours from PT&G since we run carbide.
In the case of the short magazine box, might as well stick with 8 twist and standard reamer to save money, since the short length precludes the use of the long projectiles that are really only practical to shoot from a longer box.
2.245" mag constraints is an ABSOLUTE Goat Fhuqk in 223 and well shy of ASC AR mag confines. EPIC fhuqking failure there. Hint.
Kiff is the LAST Charlatan I'd entertain sourcing a reamer from,for any fhuqking reason. Hint.
It is in oft mused hilarious misconception,by folks who don't shoot,that a longer throat is requisite for better projectiles. Superior projectiles by literal design,will have a greater COAL than lesser ones,in the SAME throat. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
Bill knows how to run a business and turn a profit. That’s what matters. Plus he said you can custom order the twist of your choice for full price directly from them. You can’t beat that .
If 2.245 is too short , Stick, I wonder what mag box and action they’re already manufacturing will work? It seems they are building a smaller action next . Maybe keep the 223 on this current action?
Yeah, would rather just have a Model 20 with a shimmed 2.55" mag box, 223 bolt face, and appropriate feed rails than a shortened action that won't take anything over 2.245". The 20 is light enough as is.
2.245" as mentioned prior,is far shorter than my beloved ASC AR mag's confines. Same as extrapolated to a 1-8" Teeker CTR and it's 2.600" OEM mag. The Teeker NEEDS to be 1-7",to connect all dots. Hint.
1-7" HawkHill 223 SALAMI here and 88's expressly(.545 BC). AM 5rd steel defaults and 10rd MDT poly for Giggles. I want 2.550" there. Hint.
Howie Mini JO V2 BDL COAL. Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
Well Fetterman, why don’t you pony up and buy a gun company and make those guns like you want them and see if you can sell enough to stay in business for a year or two. Hint……..
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
Well Fetterman, why don’t you pony up and buy a gun company and make those guns like you want them and see if you can sell enough to stay in business for a year or two. Hint……..
Fucqtard, Inc. "They aren't accurate but we lie good and BS a few. HINT"
Keep filling out your Hurt Feeler Reports and sucking ass,as you "live" vicariously...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Pardon wares that exist,as you drool aloud. Hint.
Ain't it a fhuqking HOOT,that a simplistic critique by me sways The Market,while you piss up ropes with your Bumbling Brokedicktitude and Pretend aloud. Hint.
Big Stick, maybe some firearms company CEOs or owners don't shoot, but I'm on the range almost every day testing Lehigh Defense and Wilson Combat products. In addition I hog hunt around 300 days a year and during deer season (Oct-Feb) I deer hunt almost every day. My typical day is a 2 hour hunt in the morning, on the range on/off during the day and start hunting about 2 hours before dark then on into the night with thermal for hogs. Living on a 8600 acre Texas ranch with access to surrounding properties provides me with a 14,000 acre playground. From 2020-2022 I averaged 539 hog kills per year.
My good friend Jason Vanderbrink (CEO of CCI, Federal, Remington and Speer) is also an avid shooter and hunts all over the world.
I do have to admit though, I'm not into this whole long range hunting thing. I will turn 70 in a few weeks and I've been hunting since I was 10 years old. I've shot exactly 3 animals (2 deer and a Eland) at a range over 300 yards. In my "opinion" if you can't get closer than 300 yards for the shot you should work on your stalking skills! I would be that the average distance game is taken in the eastern half of the country is well under 200 yards. So, terminal bullet performance is much more important for most hunters than a high BC.
Fetterman nonsense as usual. Fetterman, stop buying guns and ammo and find a good brain surgeon. Hell, Dr. Frankenstein's work would make a drastic improvement to your IQ.
I do have to admit though, I'm not into this whole long range hunting thing. I will turn 70 in a few weeks and I've been hunting since I was 10 years old. I've shot exactly 3 animals (2 deer and a Eland) at a range over 300 yards. In my "opinion" if you can't get closer than 300 yards for the shot you should work on your stalking skills! I would be that the average distance game is taken in the eastern half of the country is well under 200 yards. So, terminal bullet performance is much more important for most hunters than a high BC.
Lehigh doesn't make anything worth a fhuqk and an Eephus Pitch,is the LAST thing of interest to me. Hint.
It is more than a touch telling,that you don't have a clue regarding twist rates and COAL,as applicable to your very own wares. Hint.
BC scares CLUELESS Blue Haired Cat Ladies,which is never not funnier than fhuqk. Distance is largely moot,because I actually shoot. I live in a 17,000,000 acre playground,with no fences or feeders and simply shoot it all and then some. Pardon wares that exist. Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
Lehigh doesn't make anything worth a fhuqk and an Eephus Pitch,is the LAST thing of interest to me. Hint.
It is more than a touch telling,that you don't have a clue regarding twist rates and COAL,as applicable to your very own wares. Hint.
BC scares CLUELESS Blue Haired Cat Ladies,which is never not funnier than fhuqk. Distance is largely moot,because I actually shoot. I live in a 17,000,000 acre playground,with no fences or feeders and simply shoot it all and then some. Pardon wares that exist. Hint...................
Yes, and more importantly, you are humble,kind, and communicate in a clear and graceful manner.
You may want to consider (3) Midol and 1000cc's of Vagisil,in your usual location(s),before you fill out your next Hurt Feelers Professional Victim Report...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Be sure to cite any/all words that are "too big" or "too Technical" for you and I'll streamline same,just for you. Hint.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Thanks for the quick reply.
I had Melvin Build me a M24 in 30-06 with a stainless 2 contour 22 inch barrel. I foolishly sold it and would love another model 24. Might go with a 270 this time or a 280 if they are available.
Thanks for keeping a great rifle design available. I think the safety redesign is a great idea and I'm glad it includes a bolt lock. I did not buy a Barrett because they omitted the bolt lock. Nice touch on your part that shows you know something about hunting on the move in thick cover.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Bill why did you move away from the blind magazines Melvin used? And are left handed NULA’s going to return?
Our team all agreed that the guns would sell better with hinged bottom metal and personally I don't like a blind mag.. I'm not aware of a single direct customer request for a blind mag..
Once all the right hand guns are available I'm sure we will look at LH guns.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Bill why did you move away from the blind magazines Melvin used? And are left handed NULA’s going to return?
Our team all agreed that the guns would sell better with hinged bottom metal and personally I don't like a blind mag.. I'm not aware of a single direct customer request for a blind mag..
Once all the right hand guns are available I'm sure we will look at LH guns.
Do you know a fella named John Burns ? We’re PARDs.
Looking forward to how these work out. I have three Forbes 24B's that all shoot MOA at 5.5 to 5.75 pounds. The 25-06 is a caribou killing phenom with 101 LRX's at 3386 into 0.5" groups. I was saving up for a Barrett Field Craft when they pulled the plug. Any plans to make the Model 20 in 284? It was a big seller for Melvin.
I wish manufacturers would twist their rifles faster too. The Barrett FC short actions are twisted right and have about a 3" mag box. I regret not buying more of them. Their LA models didn't have enough length in the box.
If someone wanted to make a rifle right in my eyes they'd start using stainless actions and barrels. I don't like chomoly steel blued barrels even if cerakoted because they don't coat the bore. I'll consider one if it's nitride. Howa got it backwards and went all blued with a coated option. They should have gone all stainless with a coated or nitride option for those wanting the darker look. I would save time and cut expense reducing model numbers by going all stainless.
I would also go 3" mag box on short actions and 3.9" on long actions. If I did a mini action I'd go 2.6"
I don't see any downside to faster twists so 6mm and 243 would be at least 7.5. I'd do the 223, 22-250, and 22 creed at 7", 25s would be at least 8 twist, 6.5s would be at least 8 maybe 7.5", 7mms would be 8 twist, and I'd go at least 9 twist on 308 cal. Other then poofing a few bullets in flight driving very soft skin stuff very fast I've never had a time where I felt I had too much twist. The ones I saw come apart were with a fast twist 3 groove with a rough worn throat driving soft bullets very fast. There is no downside to faster twist as I see it. You older curmudgeon can still shoot round noses through a fast twist and still not shoot game past 200 yards if you want.
I'd drill it for mounts just like Barrett did for fieldcrafts. I'd use a pad that's soft and effective and doesn't feel like it was cut from a trucks retread, and I'd put triggertech triggers in all of them.
I just cannot understand why anyone these days would still do 10 twist 243's or 308s with an 11.25. Really how hard is it to just order faster twist barrels? Those who shoot a lot will be way more likely to buy an 8 twist 243 that a 10 twist. And those who think 10 is great probably won't even look what twist it is anyways because they are not into shooting enough to really care.
Varmint bullets splat things better with a faster twist anyways. I built a 243 nearly 20 years ago with an 8 twist brux when brux was pretty new. I had to build to get one twisted for 105 amaxes and vlds I wanted to use. That same rifle also shoots 55g ballistic tips at 4000 fps and gets 1/2" groups. It turns rock chucks into a red mist with 55s and can still go long with 105s.
So Bb rifles would be stainless, long mag boxes, fast twists, solid mount set up, good pad, and triggertech. Also all stocks would be stiff so when floated they stay floated weather Tupperware, carbon, fiberglass, or wood. No flexing for ends allowed.
After being a marketing director for 14 years I've learned not to go off your own assumptions. Survey the respected people in the industry, listen to those that others listen to, talk to the mavens. Some people don't like sticks style but if I was in the industry I'd be listen to guys like him. I took the company I worked for from being ranked 37th in their segment as a brand to number 1 in 7 years. I did it not by doing general surveys of the ignorant masses only but by listening to the most respected people out there, the ones others knew were the top of that field. The masses don't know what they want until the experts tell them and explain it.
I just cannot understand why anyone these days would still do 10 twist 243's or 308s with an 11.25. Really how hard is it to just order faster twist barrels? Those who shoot a lot will be way more likely to buy an 8 twist 243 that a 10 twist. And those who think 10 is great probably won't even look what twist it is anyways because they are not into shooting enough to really care.
I think this is funnier than hell! Potential and PROBABLE buyers are trying to tell a manufacturer how to create a winning product in a modern market and although some open to custom options, he wants to do what every one in the past has already done. They are literally begging him to take their money. And then he pushes his ethics and says you need to get closer.
Who do you think your market is? Mountain hunters, sheep hunters, backcountry backpack guys. Western type hunters. Im sure some deer tracker types that like a quick responsive rifle will buy them too. Even some stand hunters. But why would it matter if most game is shot less than 200 yards in the East. There are hundreds of options in old slow twist rifles that would work. And let’s face it, your rifles won’t be inexpensive. So why would guys drop that kind of money for something they already have or can get anywhere.
I don’t consider myself a LR hunter but I’ve been around enough LR to know there isn’t a downside to faster twist rates. Yes I know not everyone needs a high BC bullet. But how is it a downside on a modern mountain rifle? How exactly is terminal performance affected by a long for caliber bullet? How is it a bad thing if you need to take a longer shot?
I just think you’re missing an opportunity. There’s a reason for the crazy secondary market on Fieldcrafts and 223 Montana’s. And as far as getting closer I just crawled and stalked into 150 yards of extremely open country with my wife to shoot a big antelope buck. And she made a good one shot kill using a 223 ack with a high BC 75 amax, and the bullet didn’t bounce off at such close range.
I don't mind getting close. I used to bow hunt much more than rifle hunting. I started bow hunting as a kid in the 80's and have filled a lot of deer tags, 2 antelope, and some elk with bows. Even took 3 or 4 deer with a recurve during my college years.
I also cast bullets and sometimes carry an open sight 45/70 or 444 hunting. I may use my 358 BLR for my cow hunt this week if they're mostly holding in the trees. I took a buck Saturday at less than 100 yards in thick sage on the run with the lightweight AR 300 HAM'R I recently built for my kids to hunt with. I had a very accurate 6.5 Creedmoor set up for long range if needed but the way this opportunity happened I quickly switched rifles with my kid because the little 300 hamr with the stubby little 135g speers was the right tool for a quick off hand brush shot and worked great.
But, we don't get to shoot 100s of pigs a year in Idaho. At best its 2 deer if you draw an extra doe tag and then you might get an elk or a bear. It maybe several years before we draw a good tag and when we do it's public ground and often steep rugged country or wide open desert country. When we get those rare good tags we want a gun that can cover different situations well. Rangefinders and dialing have made longer shots much more doable than they were thirty years ago.
One of the main advantages of high bc for me is less wind drift. The wind blows a lot around here and Its hard to gauge. Especially across a big wide canyon with varying gusts. High bcs can make what I call midrange shots much more doable say 400-700 yards. I rarely shoot game beyond that because the set up needs to be near perfect for me to shoot further out. I need a solid rest, game that's holding still, and a confident wind call to even consider a longer shot.
I've drawn 1 rifle tag for antelope in a lifetime of trying. Then my wife booked some important family stuff and travel starting at 10 AM opening day. My friend and i left early opening morning and I took a rifle I had built that shoots very well and I'd been getting excellent groups and first round hits centered on a 16" plate at 1000. That gun without the scope only weighs 7 pounds but can cover a lot of bases.
About 8:30 we found a good speed goat buck but it was moving out and headed for private property. We couldn't get closer so I found a little elevated spot to get prone on the bipod and had my friend laser me a range. He said it's too far its 550. I said that's all, it looked further. He started getting a rear bag out of a pack and I said I don't need it and fired as it stopped for a few seconds. I hit it perfect through the top of the heart and both lungs dropping it instantly.
I was 100 % confident in that shot as I lined it up. I knew I had a solid hold and knew that 215g Berger Hybrid would have no problem doing that job. I was home by 10am. When I want a fast twist rifle it's not to stunt shoot 1000 yards away. It's often with the thought of a 400 yard shot in the wind. I practice at 1000 because that gives me even more confidence on those 400-600 or so shots that are often the only opportunity I might get to fill that one tag I waited years to draw. When I get that good desert bull tag that I've only drawn twice I want a rifle I'm confident with because I may only get 1 opportunity and it will most likely be windy and probably out past 200.
After my novel one more chapter, a marketing point. In doing product development I used to use a method called conjoint analysis. It's a pretty complicated but very powerful tool that helps you build a product designed to best appeal to your target market segment. Different attributes of products have different levels of utility for certain people.
Some just do the same old thing and play to the masses where everyone else plays. But there is huge money to be made on those often smaller segments whose needs aren't being met. If you identify that segment and use conjoint analysis to target it by developing products that meet their needs you can own that whole segment.
However, a lot of businesses don't want to do that. Not just in this industry but in every industry. But targeting these missed segments can lead to ground breaking trend setting things that the masses soon follow. Innovative companies can become giants as the rest of the world catches on. Think Apple and companies like them. Even tesla. Throw out the old rules and start a new trend that will dominate as it crosses into the mainstream.
I know that Gunwerks gets some harsh treatment around here but they are one of the companies in our industry that are trying to meet the needs of a smaller and often overlooked segment of hunters. They are innovating and breaking trail and getting a premium price for their high end products because they are listening and doing and asking the right people the right questions. They are leaders in long range hunting and the things they are doing continue to draw more and more interest from the mainstream.
Not everyone wants to be the leader or the innovator and I guess that's ok. There are opportunities being missed everyday by companies just busy doing what they've always done the same way everyone has always done it.
Like a 10 twist 243. That's the way its always been done so that's how we're going to keep doing it. Then an innovator comes along and says hey there are some great heavy high bc 243 bullets around these days that didn't used to be available. Why not make a rifle that can use them of it doesn't prevent you from using the old round noses too. Some people see the advantages a high bc offers and the mainstream won't care either way. Let's own the high bc crowd because we can do it without losing the masses.
A sub 6# short-action 2.5"-2.6" boxed 223Rem w/1:7 and a sub 6# 2.8"-3" boxed 1:7 22Creed just don't seem like something a person should have to go to a gunsmith or custom-shop for, but, alas.............. Get with Hornady and make that 223 an AI version. Call it a 223PRC and have them load 75's and 88's.
The last deer I shot was ~50yds. Over the last 2 seasons I've taken more coyotes over 400 than under. That's not a lack of calling prowess, they've just been targets of opportunity when traveling between hunting spots and you either shoot them where you see them, or you don't.
Mr. Wilson, if you're looking for a 1st potential customer request for a blind magazine, by all means, consider it so-requested.
Yes, it's extremely easy to satisfy everyone when you run multiple firearms industry companies........I guess that's why we've been in business 45+ years
Yes, it's extremely easy to satisfy everyone when you run multiple firearms industry companies........I guess that's why we've been in business 45+ years
Well, you bought a rifle company from the guy who answered his own phone and was very fond of saying:
"I'll build you whatever you want".
You took that away. Then you took a fairly long time to introduce your twist on the NULA, making changes that don't and won't appeal to the current NULA crowd. Maybe you'll be able to carve out a new niche' of folks willing to spend $3K + on an ultralight rifle with few/no options.
You bought a rifle design that has been full-length bedded from the get-go with the designer extolling the virtues of same since day-1, especially as it pertains to repeatable POA/POI retention.
You took that away. Which might have been acceptable had you saved weight by doing so, but, you added a hinged-floor-plate that is unlikely to add new users to the platform and WILL cause current users to pay a premium for previous generation blind boxes.
While I was certainly never privy to Mr. Forbes sales figures, I'd be willing to bet he ordered more 1:7/1:8 twist .224 and .243 than he did 1:10/12/14 over the last 10yrs, and certainly over the last 4.
Yet you "me too'd" the twist-rates of old rather than noticing the trend that's been ramping up since hand-held LRF's became affordable and ubiquitous.
No one begrudges you the swap to your own barrels and CNC processes, especially if those are going to speed up delivery times. You should've probably stopped there, produced some rifles, and gotten some feedback. Or, produced a prototype w/bottom metal and a free-floated bbl for SHOT and gotten some feedback.
What is not to like about an inside release hinged floorplate? Bets the heck out of a blind box which is only good for single shots and double rifles as far as I am concerned.
I like the rifle as offered by Wilson and a friend does as well. Neither if us would want one with a blind box. So, new users are coming in due to the addition of a hinged floorplate.
As to twist rates- faster is OK but certainly not a deal breaker to most and, as mentioned above, Wilson will provide other twist rates.
Not sure if deposits are required for orders but special orders certainly should with the caveat that if order is canceled the cost of optional items would not be refundable.
As to Fetterman, really, who wants him as a customer considering, most certainly, his unprofessional and immature postings and rants. I certainly do not consider him a person from whom advice about rifle calibers, twist rates etc would be solicited.
We are already integrating 1-10 twist .308s into the std production so both 1-10 and 1-11.25 will be options and the next run of .243 barrels will be 1-9 twist and this will be the new standard.
I will put the accuracy of our rifles up against any original Melvin built gun, they all shoot great or they don't ship.
The guys just built me a 7mm08 and it shoots GREAT!!! Weighs 6# 10.7oz unloaded with a 19oz scope/rings on it.
Just my "personal" opinion, but some of the posters on this forum should take a "hint" from the Texas Hunting Forum and be nice people !!!
I wish manufacturers would twist their rifles faster too. The Barrett FC short actions are twisted right and have about a 3" mag box. I regret not buying more of them. Their LA models didn't have enough length in the box.
If someone wanted to make a rifle right in my eyes they'd start using stainless actions and barrels. I don't like chomoly steel blued barrels even if cerakoted because they don't coat the bore. I'll consider one if it's nitride. Howa got it backwards and went all blued with a coated option. They should have gone all stainless with a coated or nitride option for those wanting the darker look. I would save time and cut expense reducing model numbers by going all stainless.
I would also go 3" mag box on short actions and 3.9" on long actions. If I did a mini action I'd go 2.6"
I don't see any downside to faster twists so 6mm and 243 would be at least 7.5. I'd do the 223, 22-250, and 22 creed at 7", 25s would be at least 8 twist, 6.5s would be at least 8 maybe 7.5", 7mms would be 8 twist, and I'd go at least 9 twist on 308 cal. Other then poofing a few bullets in flight driving very soft skin stuff very fast I've never had a time where I felt I had too much twist. The ones I saw come apart were with a fast twist 3 groove with a rough worn throat driving soft bullets very fast. There is no downside to faster twist as I see it. You older curmudgeon can still shoot round noses through a fast twist and still not shoot game past 200 yards if you want.
I'd drill it for mounts just like Barrett did for fieldcrafts. I'd use a pad that's soft and effective and doesn't feel like it was cut from a trucks retread, and I'd put triggertech triggers in all of them.
I just cannot understand why anyone these days would still do 10 twist 243's or 308s with an 11.25. Really how hard is it to just order faster twist barrels? Those who shoot a lot will be way more likely to buy an 8 twist 243 that a 10 twist. And those who think 10 is great probably won't even look what twist it is anyways because they are not into shooting enough to really care.
Varmint bullets splat things better with a faster twist anyways. I built a 243 nearly 20 years ago with an 8 twist brux when brux was pretty new. I had to build to get one twisted for 105 amaxes and vlds I wanted to use. That same rifle also shoots 55g ballistic tips at 4000 fps and gets 1/2" groups. It turns rock chucks into a red mist with 55s and can still go long with 105s.
So Bb rifles would be stainless, long mag boxes, fast twists, solid mount set up, good pad, and triggertech. Also all stocks would be stiff so when floated they stay floated weather Tupperware, carbon, fiberglass, or wood. No flexing for ends allowed.
After being a marketing director for 14 years I've learned not to go off your own assumptions. Survey the respected people in the industry, listen to those that others listen to, talk to the mavens. Some people don't like sticks style but if I was in the industry I'd be listen to guys like him. I took the company I worked for from being ranked 37th in their segment as a brand to number 1 in 7 years. I did it not by doing general surveys of the ignorant masses only but by listening to the most respected people out there, the ones others knew were the top of that field. The masses don't know what they want until the experts tell them and explain it.
We are already integrating 1-10 twist .308s into the std production so both 1-10 and 1-11.25 will be options and the next run of .243 barrels will be 1-9 twist and this will be the new standard.
I will put the accuracy of our rifles up against any original Melvin built gun, they all shoot great or they don't ship.
The guys just built me a 7mm08 and it shoots GREAT!!! Weighs 6# 10.7oz unloaded with a 19oz scope/rings on it.
Just my "personal" opinion, but some of the posters on this forum should take a "hint" from the Texas Hunting Forum and be nice people !!!
What is not to like about an inside release hinged floorplate?
Weight, I'd rather that weight be spent either full-length bedding the bbl'd action, or, not be there at all if you're going to float. Lots more area to get inletting wrong and create flex/pressure in the stock. The possibility of an involuntary and heartily unwanted mag-dump. I'd never done that, ever, until I did, then, it sucked. The mag-dump didn't cost me the critter, but it made things a bit sportier for a few seconds. I've converted multiple M70's, M700's, and a couple Kimber 84's over to blind magazines as I prefer them.
We are already integrating 1-10 twist .308s into the std production so both 1-10 and 1-11.25 will be options and the next run of .243 barrels will be 1-9 twist and this will be the new standard.
Strange choice. The 11.25 twist 308s will fully stabilize 185 Juggernauts, so not really necessary to go faster there, though it's certainly not a problem to have a bit more twist. But the 1-9 twist 243 doesn't gain much over the 10. Neither 10 nor 9 will fully stabilize a bunch of the commonly shot bullets, such as 108 ELDMs. Really need an 8 twist there.
As a new manufacturer of bolt action rifles the Barrett Fieldcraft was done very right. Especially taking into account cartridge length, bullet technology, barrel lengths, portability/weight, and overall craftsmanship. I was expecting a similar attempt from Wilson Combat, especially considering all of Melvin’s marvelous history, but that’s not the case. Not dissing on Wilson, I’m sure they’re a very good product, however a few things on their new bolt guns going into year 2024 are a bit of a head scratcher for me. Again knowing the type of work Wilson has produced in the past, it’s not what I expected in terms of their ability to produce a cutting edge product similar to the Barrett Fieldcraft.
I haven’t read this whole thread, or have an opinion either way on the new FCs or whatever they’re called now.
What I just don’t understand though, is why companies don’t put out what, in my opinion(gathered from many different forums/ranges/friends,etc), would sell like crazy.
I mean, how fast would a .223 Montana, 7 or 8 twist, FLY off the shelves? Same with a 700 along the Mtn guide style…stainless, twisted right for todays bullets and dropped into a Ti or similar stock???
How many of you would buy a Mtn Guide or Montana in .22 Creed, twisted correctly?
(Edited to add to the above and not absurdly priced.)
When Barret did the FC, it seemed to check all boxes of what most of us consider a hunting rifle. All the pieces there, especially in the SAs. I was the odd one out that just couldn’t stand the stock design, but I know I’m in the minority.
I made a trip to Whittakers with cash in hand to buy 2, but hated the stock so wound up with 2 more Kimbers. Thinking back it seems they had a handful of demo models for under $1k….
But those FCs, what did they sell for at first? $1500 ish? Seems used ones are bringing close to twice that now. I can’t make sense of why their design wasn’t carried over, made available and sold like crazy.
Something must be going right over my head because I don’t get it at all.
I haven’t read this whole thread, or have an opinion either way on the new FCs or whatever they’re called now.
What I just don’t understand though, is why companies don’t put out what, in my opinion(gathered from many different forums/ranges/friends,etc), would sell like crazy.
I mean, how fast would a .223 Montana, 7 or 8 twist, FLY off the shelves? Same with a 700 along the Mtn guide style…stainless, twisted right for todays bullets and dropped into a Ti or similar stock???
How many of you would buy a Mtn Guide or Montana in .22 Creed, twisted correctly?
(Edited to add to the above and not absurdly priced.)
When Barret did the FC, it seemed to check all boxes of what most of us consider a hunting rifle. All the pieces there, especially in the SAs. I was the odd one out that just couldn’t stand the stock design, but I know I’m in the minority.
I made a trip to Whittakers with cash in hand to buy 2, but hated the stock so wound up with 2 more Kimbers. Thinking back it seems they had a handful of demo models for under $1k….
But those FCs, what did they sell for at first? $1500 ish? Seems used ones are bringing close to twice that now. I can’t make sense of why their design wasn’t carried over, made available and sold like crazy.
Something must be going right over my head because I don’t get it at all.
Carried over to what? Wilson bought out NULA, not Barrett. Or am I misunderstanding the gist of your post?
A blind magazine has never dumped the reserve cartridges all over the shooters boots
Operator error issue. Kinda like wanting a fixed power scope because one time you had the scope at 14 power when you were shooting at 30 yards and all you could see was hair.
Carried over to what? Wilson bought out NULA, not Barrett. Or am I misunderstanding the gist of your post?
No, I see I could have worded that a lot better. Keep in mind that my post wasn’t directed at Wilson and their new ULA style, but more in general.
What I was getting at, it’s easy to see what design/features whatever people want. Why are companies always seemingly doing the opposite?
I mean we have a rifle here that’s looking to fill a gap that was once filled by NULA and Barrett. Why try and reinvent the wheel instead of making what people are asking for? What am I missing here?
Like i said earlier, I’m very ignorant to some fact or another that’s probably very obvious…but I just don’t get it.
A blind magazine has never dumped the reserve cartridges all over the shooters boots
Operator error issue. Kinda like wanting a fixed power scope because one time you had the scope at 14 power when you were shooting at 30 yards and all you could see was hair.
Bill, were there any discussions with Melvin about adding bottom metal to your designs? His opinion?
I know you bought all rights, so I'm not questioning your design parameters. Just wondering if there was any discussion about it between friends. It is clear lots of respect is there between the two of you.
A blind magazine has never dumped the reserve cartridges all over the shooters boots
Operator error issue. Kinda like wanting a fixed power scope because one time you had the scope at 14 power when you were shooting at 30 yards and all you could see was hair.
Blind mags still carry better in the hand
I suppose it’s all personal preference, mine is to have bottom metal because I like to dump 3 or 4 cartridges out the bottom rather than cycle through to empty. It’s a habit from using a push feed I do not chamber a round until the need requires, I just slide the bolt over the pressed down cartridges in the magazine. Whatever is left in the magazine I dump out the bottom for quick empty. To each his own.
Hang in there, Bill. While some of the remarks seem harsh, it's not personal-at least I hope not. The 24HCF bunch are as passionate about their rifle choices and actually shooting their rifles as any bunch I've ever come across on the WWW. Like you, some of these guys shoot and hunt a LOT. I, for one, have learned a lot from these guys by simply trying some of the things they suggested, just as some of us have for you re 1911s. As a rifle side note, like you, I really like the 9,3x62. I learned about it here at 24HCF. Best wishes and success on your new WC/NULA bolt action rifles.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that not only did the blind magazine help save weight but also that it made for a stiffer stock, which in conjunction with Mr Forbes’ full length bedding was how he achieved the accuracy he was noted for.
I’ll probably never quit kicking myself for not buying a Fieldcraft when they were on close out. Had a 6 Creed in my hands at a Cabela’s that was priced at $1350 and walked away like an idiot.
I’ll probably never quit kicking myself for not buying a Fieldcraft when they were on close out. Had a 6 Creed in my hands at a Cabela’s that was priced at $1350 and walked away like an idiot.
I was waiting patiently for a Fieldcraft in 22Creed and 223. Then Barrett shelved the FC before launching either. When Wilson bought NULA I thought sure I'd have turnkey options for both.
Alas, it appears I'll be re-barreling and box-tweaking more Kimber 84Ms.
We are already integrating 1-10 twist .308s into the std production so both 1-10 and 1-11.25 will be options and the next run of .243 barrels will be 1-9 twist and this will be the new standard.
I will put the accuracy of our rifles up against any original Melvin built gun, they all shoot great or they don't ship.
The guys just built me a 7mm08 and it shoots GREAT!!! Weighs 6# 10.7oz unloaded with a 19oz scope/rings on it.
Just my "personal" opinion, but some of the posters on this forum should take a "hint" from the Texas Hunting Forum and be nice people !!!
Your VERY Tender Feelers,will "help" less than none. Holster your Emotions and focus Mechanics for The Win. Hint.
A 1-9" 243 Win is a Goat Fhuqk. The absolute fhuqking slowest Seex Kreed you can procure over the counter is 1-8",but Ronnie did it MUCH better,in both. Hint.
Going 1-10" in the 308,won't hurt The Core-Lokt Crowd and will keep windows of opportunity open,for those who like mufflers and subsonic High BC's. It'll suit those legally forced to shoot non-lead Mono's too. That is simply a wise mechanical move,though the LEAST likely to happen. Hint.
Now schit like this,is simply mechanically fhuqking STUPID,none of which is "subjective". A 9" 7-08,can't keep pace with a 8" 264 Kreedmire. Why? Because bullets matter wayyyyyyy more than headstamps. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
The Mail has been kind. Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
P.S. and by the way,as horse more than HINTS,a Speedmire Donor recently arrived. Though I already have them in 7",7.5" and 8"...this will be another 7".
Nice of the 1-10" Montucky 243Win,to give up the ghost,in order to obtain EXCELLENCE. Hint.
Sorry since 1-8 is by far our best selling twist for AR bbls they will be 1-8 with .223 Wylde chambers. I'm not sure on mag box length, I'd have to ask one of our engineers.
The reason the 1:8 is a top seller is because people not in the know associate 5.56 as being a sloppy chamber where as the 223 Wylde is thought of as a match type chamber and it’s what you twisted your Wyldes. Your 5.56s are 1:7 and that’s where a bolt gun needs to be to take advantage of a larger box for seating long bullets.
Fast twist is king for everything despite the mentality of “Ive never needed more for hunting to 400 yards”.
I’ve bought a couple of your barrels in 6.8 for ARs and they are nothing short of amazing in the accuracy department.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
Is it a 1/10" or 10 thou shorter? Looks pretty tight at 3.187
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
If someone likes a bit extra mag box OAL to play with, I think the 6.5 PRC would be the sweet spot for the M28. The 7 PRC wouldn't have much room to grow.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
Is it a 1/10" or 10 thou shorter? Looks pretty tight at 3.187
So, the Hornady 180 ELD M load is 3.288. Which seems like a big difference to me too, but there it is. This morning I took a 180 ELD M and stuck it in an unfired case, snug fit, and left it long, markered the bullet, and then closed the bolt on it. Which is how you guys figure OAL to kiss the lands from what I've read? When I extracted the cartridge it was 3.3835. It was a smidge too long for the mag box so, must be a 3.34 mag box.
So, if you want to experiment with kissing lands in a SAAMI chamber and 180 ELDMs, you're going to want more OAL in your mag box. For me the goal was factory ammo and, the 180 ELD M factory load has given me a bunch of 1/2 - 3/8 inch 3-shot groups.
.05 inches of cushion in the box is pretty tight. But, I have been shooting groups out of the mag and so far the accuracy has been outstanding.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
Is it a 1/10" or 10 thou shorter? Looks pretty tight at 3.187
So, the Hornady 180 ELD M load is 3.288. Which seems like a big difference to me too, but there it is. This morning I took a 180 ELD M and stuck it in an unfired case, snug fit, and left it long, markered the bullet, and then closed the bolt on it. Which is how you guys figure OAL to kiss the lands from what I've read? When I extracted the cartridge it was 3.3835. It was a smidge too long for the mag box so, must be a 3.34 mag box.
So, if you want to experiment with kissing lands in a SAAMI chamber and 180 ELDMs, you're going to want more OAL in your mag box. For me the goal was factory ammo and, the 180 ELD M factory load has given me a bunch of 1/2 - 3/8 inch 3-shot groups.
.05 inches of cushion in the box is pretty tight. But, I have been shooting groups out of the mag and so far the accuracy has been outstanding.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Based on my Outkast CLR when that M28 comes out in 7PRC it will be one sweet shootin', 6 lb badass. And, I'm guessing with the bottom metal it'll hold three down.
Hopefully you get more than 3.34" in your mag-box. That's what the original 28 housed down below, had to go 32 to get a 3.7" box.
Might be 3.34 or maybe 3.4 - can't tell without pulling her apart which I don't want to do 'cause she's all sighted in for hunting season. Plenty of room for factory stuff which is my main concern. Here it is with the Federal ELD X load which is 3.187" - interestingly a tenth of an inch shorter than the Hornady loads:
Is it a 1/10" or 10 thou shorter? Looks pretty tight at 3.187
So, the Hornady 180 ELD M load is 3.288. Which seems like a big difference to me too, but there it is. This morning I took a 180 ELD M and stuck it in an unfired case, snug fit, and left it long, markered the bullet, and then closed the bolt on it. Which is how you guys figure OAL to kiss the lands from what I've read? When I extracted the cartridge it was 3.3835. It was a smidge too long for the mag box so, must be a 3.34 mag box.
So, if you want to experiment with kissing lands in a SAAMI chamber and 180 ELDMs, you're going to want more OAL in your mag box. For me the goal was factory ammo and, the 180 ELD M factory load has given me a bunch of 1/2 - 3/8 inch 3-shot groups.
.05 inches of cushion in the box is pretty tight. But, I have been shooting groups out of the mag and so far the accuracy has been outstanding.
With the way projectile development has gone, it'd be foolish to introduce a long-action that didn't house at least a 3.7" COAL. Wilson could skip the 24 and 28 altogether and just go straight to the 32 that already has the longer box. Given the option, almost everyone would gladly pay 4Oz for all the COAL in the belly they ever wanted or needed.
With the way projectile development has gone, it'd be foolish to introduce a long-action that didn't house at least a 3.7" COAL. Wilson could skip the 24 and 28 altogether and just go straight to the 32 that already has the longer box. Given the option, almost everyone would gladly pay 4Oz for all the COAL in the belly they ever wanted or needed.
I think you're right. But, it is a 32oz action, right? Not 40oz. There was a Model 40 but, it was bigger than the 32.
So, my 5.98lb 7PRC becomes a 6.23lb 7PRC or with the bottom metal and different stock - 6.5lb 7PRC (24" #2 contour barrel) but, holds 3 in the mag and gives the kissers room to kiss. Makes sense. Still a super light big 7. And, makes my rifle a bit more of a unicorn and all the more dear to my heart.
With the way projectile development has gone, it'd be foolish to introduce a long-action that didn't house at least a 3.7" COAL. Wilson could skip the 24 and 28 altogether and just go straight to the 32 that already has the longer box. Given the option, almost everyone would gladly pay 4Oz for all the COAL in the belly they ever wanted or needed.
I think you're right. But, it is a 32oz action, right? Not 40oz. There was a Model 40 but, it was bigger than the 32.
I should've put a space between 4 and Oz. I meant folks would pay 4 Oz (32 vs. 28) to have the COAL. There was a "short" magnum version too, but I don't recall if it was a 28 or 32.
The 28 as a "Short Mag" action w/3.34" mag box would probably suffice, but, then @ 3.34", is it really a "short" action?
I guess what I was really getting at is that I wouldn't offer less than a 3.7" box for anything in the 62MM-68MM case length families ('06, 264/7Rem/338, 300Win, etc).
I should've put a space between 4 and Oz. I meant folks would pay 4 Oz (32 vs. 28) to have the COAL. There was a "short" magnum version too, but I don't recall if it was a 28 or 32.
The 28 as a "Short Mag" action w/3.34" mag box would probably suffice, but, then @ 3.34", is it really a "short" action?
I guess what I was really getting at is that I wouldn't offer less than a 3.7" box for anything in the 62MM-68MM case length families ('06, 264/7Rem/338, 300Win, etc).
Ah, my bad. We're on the same page. The 32 makes the most sense for those.
It’s incredible the folks telling Bill his problem is barrel twist rates when the real problem is WC bought the IP and didn’t rebrand it.
Changing the platform is fine, but calling it something it’s not when there was over a year’s time before the marketing releases, and then coming on to a forum to try and line people out about the product? You should probably consider chewing on someone’s ass that’s on your payroll for mishandling the development/marketing/product lifecycle plan instead of making a keyboard plea.
It’s like remakes of classic movies or a franchise/brand “reboot”. It’s never as good as the original (even though it actually may be) because you no longer possess the nostalgia/experience/status.
The dang things should’ve been called something else- I came up with a few ideas while typing up this post. No linkage to the ULAs, NULAs, CLRs or Forbes guns. It would be a WC gun, and you wouldn’t even think about being on here to defend the product because it would be judged by what it “is” and not against what it’s not- leaving you to shoot pigs in your twilight years while enabling your investment to be accretive.
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I don’t see your posts unless I’m logged out and scrolling. This one really intrigued me.
If you’re so damn smart and know what good rifle is and should be, why do you remain an Alaskan hillbilly bumpkin instead of starting a gun company and becoming a successful narcissist instead of a plain-ass narcissist?
I’m genuinely intrigued, and I have capital on standby to use if you genuinely have the knowledge, skills and initiative to make something happen. I think my capital would be better spent in ammo manufacturing considering the supply chain and geopolitical issues limiting consumer supply; but you have my attention if you have genuine expertise, and not a bunch of empty green ammo boxes with yellow pen paint on them and hand-me-down po’boy rifles.
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I don’t see your posts unless I’m logged out and scrolling. This one really intrigued me.
If you’re so damn smart and know what good rifle is and should be, why do you remain an Alaskan hillbilly bumpkin instead of starting a gun company and becoming a successful narcissist instead of a plain-ass narcissist?
I’m genuinely intrigued, and I have capital on standby to use if you genuinely have the knowledge, skills and initiative to make something happen. I think my capital would be better spent in ammo manufacturing considering the supply chain and geopolitical issues limiting consumer supply; but you have my attention if you have genuine expertise, and not a bunch of empty green ammo boxes with yellow pen paint on them and hand-me-down po’boy rifles.
You sure you want to be in business with Fetterman?
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I don’t see your posts unless I’m logged out and scrolling. This one really intrigued me.
If you’re so damn smart and know what good rifle is and should be, why do you remain an Alaskan hillbilly bumpkin instead of starting a gun company and becoming a successful narcissist instead of a plain-ass narcissist?
I’m genuinely intrigued, and I have capital on standby to use if you genuinely have the knowledge, skills and initiative to make something happen. I think my capital would be better spent in ammo manufacturing considering the supply chain and geopolitical issues limiting consumer supply; but you have my attention if you have genuine expertise, and not a bunch of empty green ammo boxes with yellow pen paint on them and hand-me-down po’boy rifles.
You sure you want to be in business with Fetterman?
I gave him a chance and he articulated he doesn’t know anything of value, nor does he possess the fortitude to take initiative.
I’ll be sure to scroll only while logged in so the ignore feature is in full effect.
Big Stick, maybe some firearms company CEOs or owners don't shoot, but I'm on the range almost every day testing Lehigh Defense and Wilson Combat products. In addition I hog hunt around 300 days a year and during deer season (Oct-Feb) I deer hunt almost every day. My typical day is a 2 hour hunt in the morning, on the range on/off during the day and start hunting about 2 hours before dark then on into the night with thermal for hogs. Living on a 8600 acre Texas ranch with access to surrounding properties provides me with a 14,000 acre playground. From 2020-2022 I averaged 539 hog kills per year.
My good friend Jason Vanderbrink (CEO of CCI, Federal, Remington and Speer) is also an avid shooter and hunts all over the world.
I do have to admit though, I'm not into this whole long range hunting thing. I will turn 70 in a few weeks and I've been hunting since I was 10 years old. I've shot exactly 3 animals (2 deer and a Eland) at a range over 300 yards. In my "opinion" if you can't get closer than 300 yards for the shot you should work on your stalking skills! I would be that the average distance game is taken in the eastern half of the country is well under 200 yards. So, terminal bullet performance is much more important for most hunters than a high BC.
So, at current pricing, about $11/Yd of effective range out to 300yds for a NULA?
This latest Wilson version is my favorite (with the addition of bottom metal especially) I may try one in .308 Win but the non-stainless reciever is a let-down for Me....best of luck to Mr. Wilsons new rifle 👍....Hb
This latest Wilson version is my favorite (with the addition of bottom metal especially) I may try one in .308 Win but the non-stainless reciever is a let-down for Me....best of luck to Mr. Wilsons new rifle 👍....Hb
The bolt and receiver has Armorlube DLC hard corrosion resistant coating. We considered stainless, but decided we didn't want to fight potential galling issues with the tight tolerances we're holding.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I don’t see your posts unless I’m logged out and scrolling. This one really intrigued me.
If you’re so damn smart and know what good rifle is and should be, why do you remain an Alaskan hillbilly bumpkin instead of starting a gun company and becoming a successful narcissist instead of a plain-ass narcissist?
I’m genuinely intrigued, and I have capital on standby to use if you genuinely have the knowledge, skills and initiative to make something happen. I think my capital would be better spent in ammo manufacturing considering the supply chain and geopolitical issues limiting consumer supply; but you have my attention if you have genuine expertise, and not a bunch of empty green ammo boxes with yellow pen paint on them and hand-me-down po’boy rifles.
He ain’t wrong.
A stainless receiver on a rifle in that price range and intended for hard hunting use should be a given. Do you disagree with what he said about twist, throat geometry, or COAL?
Obviously,the script has fallen into numerous hands through the years and for numerous reasons. As horrible of a job that Colt did on the platform,Ronnie did the EXACT opposite and simply surpassed Mel's BEST fhuqking efforts. That's not a Melvin Slam,but rather a Ronnie Accolade. Hint.
Ronnie did/do understand Mechanics and simply aligned the platform,to shine brightly in ALL avenues. He fhuqking NAILED RPM and throat geometry,better than anyone and everyone,before during or since. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
He made receivers outta S/S,D&T'd (5) 8-40's atop same and the end results were/are without peer. To come in behind THE pinnacle and Goat Fhuqk the lineage,is a crying fhuqking shame. The heartbeat of EVERY fhuqking rifle is RPM/Throat Geometry/COAL and to purposely Goat Fhuqk that,blows my mind. Blue Haired Cat Lady Notions,are beyond "peculiar". Hint.
It is plum AMAZING to me,how very little Manufacturers "know" or shoot. Hint...............
I don’t see your posts unless I’m logged out and scrolling. This one really intrigued me.
If you’re so damn smart and know what good rifle is and should be, why do you remain an Alaskan hillbilly bumpkin instead of starting a gun company and becoming a successful narcissist instead of a plain-ass narcissist?
I’m genuinely intrigued, and I have capital on standby to use if you genuinely have the knowledge, skills and initiative to make something happen. I think my capital would be better spent in ammo manufacturing considering the supply chain and geopolitical issues limiting consumer supply; but you have my attention if you have genuine expertise, and not a bunch of empty green ammo boxes with yellow pen paint on them and hand-me-down po’boy rifles.
He ain’t wrong.
A stainless receiver on a rifle in that price range and intended for hard hunting use should be a given. Do you disagree with what he said about twist, throat geometry, or COAL?
It’s hard to agree or disagree with a guy when he communicates in “Goat Fhuqk HINT!” That’s why I suggested he put his “expertise” to use.
The brand matters more, though. That’s Bill’s problem, and he indirectly addressed it with “shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year.” Fine, but you’re not making the same product which inherently is a different production process with different methods, and still coming on to a forum to defend it, no less. The brand is a the bigger issue in this case.
M1 Garands were hard use rifles and they did not have a stainless steel receiver. Maybe they were a semi hard use rifle. Most important part is proper finish and care of the rifle. You know, don’t use them as fishing gear or just lay them in the river just because you can. NULA rifles have applicable twist and COAL for most typical hunting purposes.
NULA rifles now are just as custom as they were before however, some folks are resistant to change and just need to bitch about something.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
M1 Garands were hard use rifles and they did not have a stainless steel receiver. Maybe they were a semi hard use rifle. Most important part is proper finish and care of the rifle. You know, don’t use them as fishing gear or just lay them in the river just because you can. NULA rifles have applicable twist and COAL for most typical hunting purposes.
NULA rifles now are just as custom as they were before however, some folks are resistant to change and just need to bitch about something.
Yep, and Melvin would install whatever twist barrel the customer wanted. One in the collection of ULA/NULAs Eileen and I have acquired over the years is a 6.5-284 I bought second-hand, which has a 1-8 twist. No doubt some would prefer a 1-7 twist these days, or even faster, but the Model 20 was built early in 2014, nearly a decade ago, back when most shooters were satisfied with 1-8 in 6.5s.
NULA rifles now are just as custom as they were before...
Incorrect. They are being manufactured in an entirely different process. Economies of scale will dictate to achieve higher production numbers and output. Even Mr. Wilson will agree they are not in any way being produced as Mr. Forbes was producing them. The Wilson NULA is not a bad rifle. It is different in multiple ways.
NULA rifles now are just as custom as they were before...
Incorrect. They are being manufactured in an entirely different process. Economies of scale will dictate to achieve higher production numbers and output. Even Mr. Wilson will agree they are not in any way being produced as Mr. Forbes was producing them. The Wilson NULA is not a bad rifle. It is different in multiple ways.
NULA rifles now are just as custom as they were before...
Incorrect. They are being manufactured in an entirely different process. Economies of scale will dictate to achieve higher production numbers and output. Even Mr. Wilson will agree they are not in any way being produced as Mr. Forbes was producing them. The Wilson NULA is not a bad rifle. It is different in multiple ways.
Right, Mel was a one man shop….
No, but he was a 3-4 man shop and he had involvement with every rifle that left the shop.
The Fieldcraft competed with production rifles in its class and beat them all hands down. That we agree on fully.
I call BS on that.
Did Mel make his own barrels? Triggers?
What custom rifle builder does?
Wilson Combat makes their barrels. Point is that most rifles built, custom or not, integrate other company made products into their own. Wilson is no different than Mel.
If you believe there is no difference between ULA/NULA under Melvin Forbes control and the current Wilson NULA our discussion ends now.
Have you ever owned ANY of what we are discussing here? And you think a Tikka surpasses a Barrett?
Boy you guys are getting spicy in this thread. I want to see the target pics of these rifles driving tacks. At least more so than a Tikka. For a factory produced non custom rifle, I'm sure Tikka will hold its own against any custom out there. Lets see them: GO......
Be specific. Forbes from ULA/NULA or a Forbes Rifles stock?
I personally own representations of EVERYTHING discussed here other than a Wilson NULA. One has crossed my palms. As I said earlier, it is not a bad rifle. Just different.
Everything available today in lightweight stocks owes a debt of gratitude to Mr. Forbes. One can even reach back so far as to thank Steyr for their attempts in early plastics.
Surface finish was not to my liking, stock felt cheap, like my ex.
Sounds like a personal issue.
I prefer the nula finish to the Barrett finish; but I’d throw that into the realm of the subjective.
So far everything has been subjective!
I think weight and stiffness are both pretty objective - and measurable. Well-made may be a bit more subjective - but I have enough representatives of everything discussed (excepting wcn) to feel pretty comfortable making that call.
Surface finish was not to my liking, stock felt cheap, like my ex.
Sounds like a personal issue.
I prefer the nula finish to the Barrett finish; but I’d throw that into the realm of the subjective.
So far everything has been subjective!
I think weight and stiffness are both pretty objective - and measurable. Well-made may be a bit more subjective - but I have enough representatives of everything discussed (excepting wcn) to feel pretty comfortable making that call.
Surface finish was not to my liking, stock felt cheap, like my ex.
Sounds like a personal issue.
I prefer the nula finish to the Barrett finish; but I’d throw that into the realm of the subjective.
So far everything has been subjective!
I think weight and stiffness are both pretty objective - and measurable. Well-made may be a bit more subjective - but I have enough representatives of everything discussed (excepting wcn) to feel pretty comfortable making that call.
Without numbers it is meaningless and subjective.
Post her weight and I’ll post my nula stock weights.
Surface finish was not to my liking, stock felt cheap, like my ex.
Sounds like a personal issue.
I prefer the nula finish to the Barrett finish; but I’d throw that into the realm of the subjective.
So far everything has been subjective!
I think weight and stiffness are both pretty objective - and measurable. Well-made may be a bit more subjective - but I have enough representatives of everything discussed (excepting wcn) to feel pretty comfortable making that call.
Without numbers it is meaningless and subjective.
Post her weight and I’ll post my nula stock weights.
🤣
I just put my NULA stock (Model 20, short action) on the scale (13" LOP, no action screws but trigger guard included) and it weighs 1lb 9.3 oz (25.3 oz.). FWIW, my Manners UL Classic (same LOP) weighs 17.7 oz.) I sold my Fieldcraft stock, but if memory serves it too was 25-26 oz. For reference, I have a Brown Pounder which I am modifying to fit a Sako S491 repeater and it weighs 1lb, 1.1 oz. (17.4 oz.). It was exactly 18 oz. from the factory but I've hogged out the action area a bit. It does not have a recoil pad. If memory serves, the stock on a Sako Carbonlight in .223 Remington is 20 oz. A Howa Mini carbon fiber stock from Stocky's weighs 16.4 oz.
Those are all good data points and agree for the most part with my measurements. I would say that is a very heavy ula stock - the ones I have bothered to measure of mine have been at least 2 to 3 ounces lighter.
And I’m still waiting on the weight of Marly’s ex …
The Fieldcraft is a great rifle but I also like the NULA/ULA/Forbes stocks a lot better.
I like the Brown Pounder and Manners UL Classic even better! The Fieldcraft stock (like the NULA, IMHO) has too much meat around the action and barrel channel. They need to skinny it up some and there's no reason these ultralight rifle stocks should weigh more than 20 ounces.
I like that stock too David. I wish they would have them at seconds pricing and I’d get another one. Maybe in the next 12-18 months we can get 22 arc barreled actions.
I like that stock too David. I wish they would have them at seconds pricing and I’d get another one. Maybe in the next 12-18 months we can get 22 arc barreled actions.
I bought my last carbon mini from them off eBay. Not sure how often they put stuff on, but they were the seller. And the shipping was a heck of a lot more reasonable.
I like that stock too David. I wish they would have them at seconds pricing and I’d get another one. Maybe in the next 12-18 months we can get 22 arc barreled actions.
I hope we don’t have to wait that long. I’m ready for it now.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
Mr. Wilson, I wanted to circle back to this question in case it was lost in the noise.
Maybe Colorado, BC, Alberta, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia.
Cool. You have exponentially more hunting experience than I do in a lot of cool places. And I’m genuinely curious why you’ve made the velocity comment in multiple threads. So what can you do with a 22 - 24” barrel 308 that you can’t do with a 20”?
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
Mr. Wilson, I wanted to circle back to this question in case it was lost in the noise.
They sell thorough our full distribution chain of dealers and distributors as well as customer direct.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
Mr. Wilson, I wanted to circle back to this question in case it was lost in the noise.
They sell thorough our full distribution chain of dealers and distributors as well as customer direct.
Thank you. So isn't it a bit disingenuous to compare your system to Melvin, who was making NULAs strictly for custom order? It's a bit like comparing the production of Lamborghini to Ford. That being said, I'm glad to see the street price seems to be more modest than originally advertised.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
Mr. Wilson, I wanted to circle back to this question in case it was lost in the noise.
They sell thorough our full distribution chain of dealers and distributors as well as customer direct.
Thank you. So isn't it a bit disingenuous to compare your system to Melvin, who was making NULAs strictly for custom order? It's a bit like comparing the production of Lamborghini to Ford. That being said, I'm glad to see the street price seems to be more modest than originally advertised.
Ha Ha Ha I will take a Ford over a Lamborghini every day and suspect that 90% of America would say the same.
The rifle has been well received since we introduced it in early Sept, we've already shipped more rifles than Melvin did in his highest production year. Since we only have a limited caliber selection of only right hand now we take this as a very positive sign along with the fact some customers have bought multiple rifles.
Are these rifles all being purchased by individuals, or are some going to dealers?
Mr. Wilson, I wanted to circle back to this question in case it was lost in the noise.
They sell thorough our full distribution chain of dealers and distributors as well as customer direct.
Thank you. So isn't it a bit disingenuous to compare your system to Melvin, who was making NULAs strictly for custom order? It's a bit like comparing the production of Lamborghini to Ford. That being said, I'm glad to see the street price seems to be more modest than originally advertised.
Ha Ha Ha I will take a Ford over a Lamborghini every day and suspect that 90% of America would say the same.
Thank you. So isn't it a bit disingenuous to compare your system to Melvin, who was making NULAs strictly for custom order? It's a bit like comparing the production of Lamborghini to Ford. That being said, I'm glad to see the street price seems to be more modest than originally advertised.
Guessing the CEO of Ford is not answering questions and listening to feedback on an online enthusiast's forum. This place is not a focus group engineered to play to the masses. This guy cares about what the rifleman's rifleman has to say (that's a compliment Mr. Goat, though I'm disagreeing with you). I see your point about the Melvin/custom experience. That's gone. You lucky son's of guns who had Melvin build you a gun consider yourselves envied. But, this new thing has all the makings of something really special.
I don’t feel shortchanged that Ronnie himself didn’t build my Fieldcraft, or the Bill didn’t build my Wilson Combat guns. I’ve been around enough “full custom” hunting rifles to know it’s a distinction without a difference.
Was it Muledeer or Jeff Cooper (or Clint Smith) who opined on how we treat one MOA rifles these days as throw always, when one MOA will suffice in any reasonable hunting application.
These are the salad days for hunters and shooters.
Am i wrong or didn't Melvins NULA rifle cost like 4 grand?...These new Wilson's can be had for less than 3K.....Hb
At the end Melvin was getting $4200 I believe, that had been raised from $3600 just months earlier if I remember correctly. And I think they had been less than that without going back too far.
Yeah I had checked into one just before Melvin sold out and as I remember he wanted North of $4,000, so we are not really comparing Apples to Apples here money wise as I am seeing the Wilson NULA's on GB listed for well under $3,000.....Hb
Maybe Colorado, BC, Alberta, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia.
Cool. You have exponentially more hunting experience than I do in a lot of cool places. And I’m genuinely curious why you’ve made the velocity comment in multiple threads. So what can you do with a 22 - 24” barrel 308 that you can’t do with a 20”?
Perhaps a better analogy here would be Bentley to Mercedes.
Yeah, that's a better analogy. My point being that it seems a bit strange to compare the production numbers of a full custom to an off the shelf model from a dealer.
Maybe Colorado, BC, Alberta, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia.
Cool. You have exponentially more hunting experience than I do in a lot of cool places. And I’m genuinely curious why you’ve made the velocity comment in multiple threads. So what can you do with a 22 - 24” barrel 308 that you can’t do with a 20”?
Maybe Colorado, BC, Alberta, South Africa, Zimbabwe and Namibia.
Cool. You have exponentially more hunting experience than I do in a lot of cool places. And I’m genuinely curious why you’ve made the velocity comment in multiple threads. So what can you do with a 22 - 24” barrel 308 that you can’t do with a 20”?
Perhaps a better analogy here would be Bentley to Mercedes.
Yeah, that's a better analogy. My point being that it seems a bit strange to compare the production numbers of a full custom to an off the shelf model from a dealer.
It seems to me Mr Wilson took the same design and streamlined the production process with his knowledge in firearm machining and also modern machinery to make the process more modern and streamlined. This is why you see stocking dealers for NULAs today . I don’t believe any dealers stocked Melvin’s. It’s pretty convenient if a dealer has one sitting on the shelf vs waiting months for one. Also, Mr Wilson has said he will TWIST one to your specs ,but don’t expect anything less than retail price. Overall, Mr Wilson taking over NULA hunting rifles is a GOOD thing.
Personally, I’d prefer a ADL magazine setup over a BDL bottom metal setup , but that’s minor considering the weights of Wilson Combat NULAs in stock form. Thank you, Bill, for taking over this endeavor. I may be a buyer next year on a 18” 6.5 CM. That’s my maximum barrel length for threaded guns . Maybe you’ll cut one short for me.
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Bill why did you move away from the blind magazines Melvin used? And are left handed NULA’s going to return?
Our team all agreed that the guns would sell better with hinged bottom metal and personally I don't like a blind mag.. I'm not aware of a single direct customer request for a blind mag..
Once all the right hand guns are available I'm sure we will look at LH guns.
Thanks Gents. Appreciate you digging Bill’s comment up, 1eyedmule!
Originally Posted by Denver257
Originally Posted by Wrongside
I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if it’s already been asked and answered- does Wilson Combat plan to offer these in left-hand models?
I don’t believe so.
Originally Posted by 1eyedmule
FYI, Wrongside.
Originally Posted by BWilson
Originally Posted by LBP
Originally Posted by BWilson
Yes, the progression is like this
M20 M20S (both hinged floorplate and detachable AR mag versions) M24 M28
Bill why did you move away from the blind magazines Melvin used? And are left handed NULA’s going to return?
Our team all agreed that the guns would sell better with hinged bottom metal and personally I don't like a blind mag.. I'm not aware of a single direct customer request for a blind mag..
Once all the right hand guns are available I'm sure we will look at LH guns.
That was my next question. With the prices coming down to that $26-2700 range it makes one in 7mm-08 a little more appealing to me down the road sometime.
Do Bill's stock exactly dimensionally replicate Melvin's?
I've wondered this as well. I'm guessing...again, it's a guess....that the stock is the same that Barrett used on the Fieldcraft, except with bdl bottom metal. It would be nice to know, rather than guess.
Sure looks like a swing and a miss to me especially for the non or anti suppressed crowd. I would want it with a 16”-18” barrel and could easily make that happen with more money. I’m not big on the idea of buying a $3,000 rifle and having to spend more on it. I suppose that it could just be special ordered with a shorter barrel?
The guys who don’t want to use a suppressor are not going to like the threaded barrel and likely would rather have a 21”-22” barrel. The 20” just doesn’t seem like it would please anyone in non magnum chamberings.
Do Bill's stock exactly dimensionally replicate Melvin's?
I've wondered this as well. I'm guessing...again, it's a guess....that the stock is the same that Barrett used on the Fieldcraft, except with bdl bottom metal. It would be nice to know, rather than guess.
I would love to know this too because if the stock is the same as the Barrett that would be a deal breaker for me. I could not wait the get my hands on a Barrett when they first came out until I did....Ergo's sucked for me 👎🏾.....Hb
I've shot a 16.1" barrel 6.5 Grendel with factory 123 gr 52,000 psi ammo a lot in hunting situations and that's about the limit to blast/noise I'd want in actual hunting situations without ears on, but up here in Canada we can't have suppressors so...for 308 based cases 20" is a similar limit imo. Speaking from a hunting perspective and no ears actual killing shooting. Obviously at the range it doesn't matter as ears are on. You guys killing with 16" 308 based cases aren't finding them rude? or do you plan suppressors? Or do you wear ears while hunting?
Also, my sako 90 peak 308 20" threaded landed actual 5 lb 10 oz and has 5+1 cap, detach flush mag, and integral picatinny that will let anyone get as low as they want with an optic...for those that is an issue like me. Pretty robust uber simple set up with Arc M-Brace rings...that's the easy button if putting out this kind of money. But for the reloader types etc. that need extra length etc. etc. this won't matter but an option to compare otherwise imo. Best trigger, slicker than whale poop on iceberg cycling/feeding, came with radial brake and dust cap (poi was same), and I guess the ergo would need to work for those more particular also. Mine did 3-shot .6" ctc groups with hornady match 168 eld-m and fusion 180's on the first day testing factory ammo's to see what it likes.
I know a lot of folks out there are really unhappy with what BWilson has done with NULA, but owners of original NULAs are probably happy with what's happened to values:
I know a lot of folks out there are really unhappy with what BWilson has done with NULA, but owners of original NULAs are probably happy with what's happened to values:
Nice rifle, but nowhere close to $6K worth, especially for a relatively short range chambering, which kinda indicates hunting other than lots of long hiking & carrying.
I'm sure a $2k Kimber would have done what that will do as well....................with $4K left over for a hunt.
More choices are always good. Given that the MSRP on my M70 EW MB is now, wait for it, $1839.99(!), about what I paid for my Fieldcraft five years ago, I think the Wilson NULA is priced fairly, and I like the new floorplate. The trend seems to be towards acquiring a bunch of cheap rifles, but the previous notion of spending a bit more for a few solid ones with good optics still seems like a good idea to me. There will always be those who pick nits over stock dimensions and such, but overall, if I experienced one of those tragic boating accidents and had to start fresh, I think one of these would do me.
More choices are always good. Given that the MSRP on my M70 EW MB is now, wait for it, $1839.99(!), about what I paid for my Fieldcraft five years ago, I think the Wilson NULA is priced fairly, and I like the new floorplate. The trend seems to be towards acquiring a bunch of cheap rifles, but the previous notion of spending a bit more for a few solid ones with good optics still seems like a good idea to me. There will always be those who pick nits over stock dimensions and such, but overall, if I experienced one of those tragic boating accidents and had to start fresh, I think one of these would do me.
They seem like they’re coming around some.
Agreed, buy good stuff and you’ll have it forever. Doesn’t have to be expensive necessarily but well made stuff seems to pay back in spades years down the road.
Melvin didnt send a target unless he sighted your rifle in but some how i think you may already know this...all i am saying is make yourself look good and send one that shows what it will do and what your paying for
If you will send me your email address,I will send you some targets. My Wilson NULA is a 308 win with a 20 in. barrel. These targets are conditional on me being able to find mine.
Apologies for reviving such an old thread. Not trying to re-open the debate about what twist should be offered, COAL, etc.
Mr. Wilson, I am considering ordering a NULA in .308 with the 20" barrel. Are there any specific ammo recommendations (or cautions) based on your testing with the default 1:11.25 twist?
RPM,COAL and Throat Geometry...are that which control ammo viability. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
Big Stick, based on all the conversation in this thread and your knowledge of the above, is there a particular commercial ammunition you think would perform well in the NULA?
RPM,COAL and Throat Geometry...are that which control ammo viability. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
Big Stick, based on all the conversation in this thread and your knowledge of the above, is there a particular commercial ammunition you think would perform well in the NULA?
Big Stick, No advice here? Seems like you wanted to give lots of hints. Any data or real world experience that would point toward specific cartridges that would perform well in the NULA?
i think the only person that can answer that will be the gun its self...i would feel any premium ammunition would perform pretty well in any well built rifle
i think the only person that can answer that will be the gun its self...i would feel any premium ammunition would perform pretty well in any well built rifle
And some will perform better than others, none knows until he tries.... I've shot premium ammo in rifles only to be disappointed cause the cheap ammo shot better. Ole blue box Federal is great in my 308, and it's cheap.
Apologies for reviving such an old thread. Not trying to re-open the debate about what twist should be offered, COAL, etc.
Mr. Wilson, I am considering ordering a NULA in .308 with the 20" barrel. Are there any specific ammo recommendations (or cautions) based on your testing with the default 1:11.25 twist?
Thank you.
I have the exact gun, you described. Purchased it about the middle of deer season here in Texas. As far as I think, it is a great rifle. I reload using 155 gr Lehigh and running around 2700 fps. It will easily get you 1 inch groups if you are not the problem. I can and have shot 1/2 inch groups on a good day. I have not loaded any other weight bullet. BTW I am 78 YO, gun weight and size makes it easy for an old man to handle. Thanks Daniel
Apologies for reviving such an old thread. Not trying to re-open the debate about what twist should be offered, COAL, etc.
Mr. Wilson, I am considering ordering a NULA in .308 with the 20" barrel. Are there any specific ammo recommendations (or cautions) based on your testing with the default 1:11.25 twist?
Thank you.
I have the exact gun, you described. Purchased it about the middle of deer season here in Texas. As far as I think, it is a great rifle. I reload using 155 gr Lehigh and running around 2700 fps. It will easily get you 1 inch groups if you are not the problem. I can and have shot 1/2 inch groups on a good day. I have not loaded any other weight bullet. BTW I am 78 YO, gun weight and size makes it easy for an old man to handle. Thanks Daniel
Thank you very much Daniel. That is very helpful. What is the weight of the optic you selected for your NULA? I am looking at glass that weighs 21.9oz.
RPM,COAL and Throat Geometry...are that which control ammo viability. Hint.
Just sayin'.............
Big Stick, based on all the conversation in this thread and your knowledge of the above, is there a particular commercial ammunition you think would perform well in the NULA?
Big Stick, No advice here? Seems like you wanted to give lots of hints. Any data or real world experience that would point toward specific cartridges that would perform well in the NULA?
Didn't realize I was in charge of all The Whining CLUELESS Kchunts. My bad. Hint.
There is Factory Fodder of repute,that's proven in a plethora of 308 Win platforms,with 175 FGMM in the cheap seats and Lapooey 155 Skinners for THE win. I muchly prefer Skinner terminal effects,concentricity,ES/SD and accuracy/precision. Hint.
That being said,were I forced to slum same,it'd be in a Montucky,as the ergo's are superior. 308's a whole,suck ass and the 264 Kreedmire stomps them silly,with .697 BC's at 2700fps. Hint.
i think when you take the hand built part away and produce the assembly line version some of the luster rubs off...even if they are as good as the original
They don’t seem to be selling. Is this poor observation or a correct one?
Well, they kicked Melvin's customer base in the balls. Add to that, I haven't seen advertisement for them anywhere, nor have I seen them on the shelf anywhere in ND/SD despite stopping in quite a few gun shops weekly.
Somewhere back in the bowels of this thread is was mentioned (and I believe sale-page linked) that Mr. Wison purchased a Barrett Fieldcraft off of GunBroker. Hopefully he takes really good notes, and a Mulligan.
They don’t seem to be selling. Is this poor observation or a correct one?
Maybe a poor observation. Take a Look at GB and see the rifles for sale, its just about a half dozen chambered for 6.5 manbuns. about a week ago there were maybe 6 or 8 Wilson NULA's listed chambered in .308 and now there is zero of these listed....I think they might sell pretty good.....Hb
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![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/237794.jpg)
But I like Mel's stock, the fit and finish, plus they are light weight.![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/238778.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/2S4vZpnt/picture-donald-trump-and-lamborgini-Google-Search.png)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/gyU9Y4C.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/Qxhm8RvD/8411989-D-DAFB-4822-9608-CC98-AECC87-F6.jpg)
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q70/923/WOMoo4.jpg)
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q70/922/vFMPIL.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/5K3DTK1/IMG-3428.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/RSkmzvT/IMG-3431.jpg)
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