Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles THE rifle?

That’s where I would disagree. Bullet technology has made all the difference in terminal effectiveness. In the last few years, we’ve been killing game from pronghorns, WT, and MD to elk and moose with the 6.5CM, 7-08, etc. As long as it arrives with enough velocity to expand, it’s all about the bullet selection and placement. IME, more velocity will extend the effective range of bullet expansion, but it won’t make the bullet kill bigger critters.

Cheap, fun practice leads to greater bullet placement effectiveness.

I haven’t played with a NULA, but I much prefer the Montana ergos to those of the FC. I would want to play with whatever you decide on before committing to it as your “one rifle.”

My formal NULA is a 284 with a 22” barrel. It’s pretty much a do-all.

I have guns setup to accept a suppressor, but not this one. The fangs things increase OAL and add weight. It defeats the purpose of a light, compact, packable rifle.

I have a NIB CLR 30-06 I bought recently that I’m kicking around ideas with because I “think” I might want it to be a Whelen. For a one and only, though, going with a Model 20 or 24 in 284/308/270/280/30-06 is not a bad move at all.

Oh, I ‘can’ make stuff dead with lighter stuff and picking the right bullets/placement. I’ve done that for years. I’ve got light stuff that’s fun to shoot all day. The lighter stuff with good bullets/placement wasn’t as good as bigger stuff, all else equal, for how fast stuff died, how easy it was to find, and less mental gymnastics on shot angles to get to vitals or get an exit. I get it. I just don’t consider the results to be ‘identical’, nor the versatility….at least the bigger stuff gets. It’s just a minor difference, as I run 6.5 & 7-08 for deer, among others. I think they’re great in that role. I think they’ll work well on some bigger stuff. I just don’t think you can logically say they’ll work better than something ‘more’ if all else is equal….other than having less recoil.

Agreed. A long action cartridge for a short barrel suppressor ready rifle doesn’t jive either. Use a SA cartridge that can still perform out of a 18” ish barrel. I believe I’d be a 7-08, 6.5 CM, or a 6mm flavor.

I thought about doing that with my CLR until I shot it. It's one of the most accurate rifles I've owned

I'm sure you can.


Having been in on the killing of a few boat loads of BG animals, using all sorts of cartridges and bullets, based on my experience and observations I would disagree with the bolded statement. The influence of caliber and cartridge on terminal performance and killing effectiveness is negligible (within reason), compared to bullet selection and placement, IME. As mentioned, I've killed and seen killed a bunch of big critters like caribou, elk, bears, and moose, with 6mm to 7mm SA cartridges and bigger LA cartridges. Animals shot with similar shot placement and bullet performance all seemed to die about the same, regardless of caliber or cartridge.

IME, the killing effect is similar, but the likelihood of practice with smaller rounds is higher, and the likelihood of better shot placement is also consequently higher, so I do say that the smaller rounds typically work better than larger rounds, all things considered. I've observed a higher ratio of effective kill shots by guys shooting smaller rounds and a higher ratio of poor shot placement and ineffective shots by guys using larger rounds.

Seems I've heard someone say before that bullets matter more than headstamps, and IME, that is very true.

BUT, as I mentioned before, logic sometimes has little to do with rifle choice. If you simply want the .280AI, I get it. If our rifle choices were purely based on logic, we would each have one rifle, chambered in something between 6 CM and .30-06, and we would proceed to put meat in the freezer.

Maybe the 22 Creedmoor is his best choice? Have the big bears have been ruled out?

It's not like he's wanting a 300 Ultramag. The 280AI is a very manageable round that is easy to master.

By his "logic" maybe a 284 bullet moving 300fps faster will offer more expansion to damage tissue and/or will penetrate deeper for larger animals or difficult shot angles.

Apparently his experience with headstamps is different than yours. It doesn't make his choice illogical.

I still need to scope it and out some rounds through it.

My "The" rifle is a 03A3 Springfield in 280AI. Hardly use it.

Throw up a pic.

I was debating the generalized statement that I bolded.

Yes, I understand and agree about his thought process.

I’ve killed a bunch of deer, elk and antelope with nothing more than a 30-06. My dad guided elk hunters back in the golden era of hunting before fast twist and hyperbole took over. He used a 30-06, so that pretty much set me up for what I would be using due to the experience and influence of a father.

Fast forward a few decades, and my evaluation would be a bit different. It depends on what game you hunt and I find most of my game would be easily dispatched with a 270 Winchester and 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. The 6.5 Creedmoor has nothing on the 270 and fast twist is for insecure shooters that will always claim bullet placement is the most important aspect of shooting game, but still rely on fast twist and cutting edge ballistics.

I prefer a 300 WBY for elk, but have killed elk with the 270 and know also, that tons of elk have died at the hands of a rifleman and a 270 Winchester.

KIS is the principle and 270 is the ruler…

I’ve caveated the caliber discussions wit ‘all else being equal’. I’m not sure I’m conveying the point adequately?

Folks love the ‘bullets over headstamps’ mantra, and it IS true. However, is also true that if the bullets are EQUAL in quality, (hence, a ‘better’ bullet is moot) then the other performance on game factors such as velocity, weight, expansion, and penetration lean towards whichever BULLET has more velocity, weight, expansion, and penetration.

I also never said short actions won’t work, OR that practice isn’t important. I merely stated that not restricting ones self to a short case, means you don’t have short case restrictions. It’s far easier to load for less recoil than it is to exceed case capacity. I get the lighter recoil/cheaper to shoot angle, and that’s why I have lighter recoiling calibers that I shoot a lot. Just because my 223 and 7-08 or 6.5 might be a smidge more fun to shoot, doesn’t mean I’m less accurate with something larger or that I’m gonna shoot crappy bullets at game with it.

….and I do have an early stainless 700 Mtn in a Ti stock, in the dreaded 270 sitting around. I guess I already have ‘the rifle’, according to some?….or the most worthless cartridge ever devised, short of the 30-06, according to others. At least it seems to like 140s.

So did you have those .30/06's rebarralled to slow em down a bit, since you don't need a fast twist?

Not arguing but curious what makes a .270 superior to a 30'06? Seems like a 30'06 can do everything a .270 can but not vice vera.

A 270 with a 130 grain ballistic tip is easily a 3150 fps bullet. Very flat and more than adequate for deer and antelope sized game. More time hunting smaller animals than elk, makes the 270 a great choice. If I was going elk hunting, I would take the 300 WBY. If I was hunting deer with my 270 and saw an elk, I would shoot it with the 270…

You don’t understand ballistics or cartridges enough to answer. 30-06 barrels were never designed with fast twist in mind…

How did I open this up and know I would find the 300 Weatherby mentioned?

Yet they were, and are. 1:10 IS a "fast" twist for 30 cal. Hence the reason that it shoots all bullet weights from 110-220+ grainers. Just like the 6.5x55 and 7x57 with their 1:7.7 and 1:8.6 twists. They had it right way back when, because they KNEW it was needed.