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Joined: Jul 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2002
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As above. Swarovsky, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, etc. I might not enjoy the price I'm a tightwad. But I bought a used high quality 4X Euro scope made in Germany and it performs better than most scopes I have ever owned. Crepuscular performance is just what I wanted. TIA. RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If you want maximum light transmission in dark conditions, why limit to 4x? Your pupil maxes out at ~7mm, so a front objective of 28 mm is all you can "take advantage of" (pardon the dangling participle).
you are better off with a 6 x 42mm, 7x50mm, or of course 8x56mm.
Unless you really NEED a 4x, consider a 6 x 42MM of good quality. Don't forget Docter Optic/Noblex, or IOR. I have a Sightron Big Sky II 6x42, and it is very good in low light. Not made anymore (made in USA to boot), but they are out there. If it has to be 4x, the Weaver Classic (Japan) 4x38mm is a bright scope, without breaking the bank, but eye relief is only ~3.3".
You can go variable with various 2-7x or 3-9/10x scope with 40-42mm objectives and set them for 4x-6x.
Higher magnification with matching max exit pupil of 7mm combined with the "Inverse-Square law" explains why higher magnification yields higher brightness (brightness is proportional to the Inverse of square of the distance... a very powerful relationship).
Bob Bell wrote an excellent piece on this topic years ago in Guns Digest. 6x42 and 8x56 scopes were the pragmatic best for low-light conditions (8x56 much better than 6x... because of the inverse square of the distance. It brought the image closer 8x/6x ... as similar why 6x is brighter than 4x.. 6x/4x. Then compare 8x/4x... HUGE increase in brightness).
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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Joined: Jul 2002
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2002
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This 4x36 does what I want. 6x seems a bit much and I don't want the weight of a variable. I really like my old Redfields in 2 to three power. A 6x42 might work if I were shooting my NULA in 308. I'm using a 300 BO bolt gun quietly. Thanks for the science. Always helps to get the details right. RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
As above. Swarovsky, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, etc. I might not enjoy the price I'm a tightwad. But I bought a used high quality 4X Euro scope made in Germany and it performs better than most scopes I have ever owned. Crepuscular performance is just what I wanted. TIA. RZ. Karl Kaps.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,117
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,117 |
Swift makes a solid 4x40. made in korea.
abiding in Him,
><>fish30ought6<><
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,345 Likes: 13
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Apr 2006
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As above. Swarovsky, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, etc. I might not enjoy the price I'm a tightwad. But I bought a used high quality 4X Euro scope made in Germany and it performs better than most scopes I have ever owned. Crepuscular performance is just what I wanted. TIA. RZ. Karl Kaps. Might be a quality scope, but you’re not likely to get one: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...7884327/a-kaps-order-update#Post17884327
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,670 Likes: 2
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,670 Likes: 2 |
They're 30mm not 1" , in case you wanted 1"
Last edited by Riflehunter; 11/10/23.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
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If you’re considering a 6x the Kahles is the cats ass but really hard to find. The S&B is great too but heavy. The Meopta is really good and much easier to find. The Kaps is a great scope too but heavy.
Look for a meopro. It shouldn’t break the bank and is the best bang for the buck in the higher end 6x scopes.
“Lighten up Francis”
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Meopta comes from which distributors? ... Dismiss brand new. It is discontinued. Maybe I can switch to 6x42 and find an NOS. RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Regular
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The difference between the Artemis, which I think they still make, is a steel tube vs aluminum in the meopro. Same glass.
“Lighten up Francis”
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24 |
A few comments:
I have a Karl Kaps 6x42--which as noted is a 30mm scope. It weighs 18 ounces, so I doubt a 4x would be much lighter.
The Weaver 4x38 is discontinued, though they can be found used now and then.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 422
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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What are your thoughts on the kaps compared to s&b and leupold 6x42?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,049 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
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I've always wanted a good 8x fixed. It sounds like 56 mil is the right objective size but I also like my scopes mounted low. Would an 8x44 work out OK or would a bigger objective add a lot? In 2004 at shotshow I asked LOW for a prototype of a fixed 8x44 with mil reticle and mil adjustments. I was running a lot of 6x42 leupolds back then but wanted a bit more power with repeatable turrets.
As a broke MBA student I didn't have the cash for the prototype and 500 piece minimum order per sku. However their rep did like my idea of matching the reticle to the adjustments. At that time most mil dot reticle ones had moa adjustments. It amazed me how long it took most optics companies to figure out why that sucked.
I then looked at chinese options having just returned from a summer over there but of course Steven the rep for vector/sun optics in China promptly took notes of all my ideas and then gave my first prototype to a guy named Garth in Utah and burned my deal down. He owns the much loathed davidson defense in provo now.
Now vector/sun builds some of the fires favorite chinese scopes. I told them repeatability was key in 2004 and suggested chryrogenically treatment stainless precision machined for all adjustment internals. I also aaked them to soutce schotts new glass factory in China. They told me they produced better glass thee than in Europe because of the European crack down on lead. I had some good ideas back then but didn't have the cash to get them rolling. I was big on mil/mil and ffp and those are still tough for some so maybe the time wasn't right.
Bb
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Are the later multi-coated Leuoplds not high quality enough? They seem very nice to me. Rex
EDIT: Not the question you're asking I guess, since they aren't making them now. But they are available if they'll meet your needs.
Last edited by TRexF16; 11/12/23.
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Posts: 1,641
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,641 |
I still like fixed power rifle scopes and love the simplicity and durability of them. Of course, that view is a thing of past because now everything newly made today is a variable. Thank god you can find plenty of the fixed power rifle scopes used. Even when I use a variable scope , it is often left on 4x or 6x and is hardly ever dialed up to max power.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24 |
What are your thoughts on the kaps compared to s&b and leupold 6x42? It's excellent, with very bright, sharp optics and very repeatable and precise adjustments.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
As above. Swarovsky, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, etc. I might not enjoy the price I'm a tightwad. But I bought a used high quality 4X Euro scope made in Germany and it performs better than most scopes I have ever owned. Crepuscular performance is just what I wanted. TIA. RZ. Karl Kaps. Might be a quality scope, but you’re not likely to get one: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...7884327/a-kaps-order-update#Post17884327Actually yes...I am.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,345 Likes: 13
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
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Good for you! All my research indicated they're a great scope. The 4x classic was not as light as a leupold, but not horribly heavy either. They lost my interest however when I had to wait so long without delivery and they get my CC fraud people involved just to get my promised refund.
Edit to add: What reticle did you go with? The invarient looked great for the woods hunting I do.
Last edited by pabucktail; 11/12/23.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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I cheated, I have had it for a while and haven't had the need for it yet.
German number 4.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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I have used a Fixed for 45 years.....Leupold, Swarovski and S&B. As proof in the field, I see no difference between them......Darrel Wick
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