Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

My Whitworth seems to be a wounded deer finder. Found a wounded 10 point yesterday. I put him out of his misery after watching him limp for a couple hundred yards. He was just barely walking. I caught up to him as he went down a gully on a deer trail. I grunted as he walked away, he stopped and looked back over his shoulder at me. I put my 485 cast in the crease of his turned neck at 150 yards and his suffering ceased. Had I not shot him, the coyotes would have eaten him alive in the night.
F01

Sir Dennis,
Very good of you and your rifle.
You just step out with the .458 Whitworth and it leads the way.
Surely you have a pet name for the old girl ?
If I ever knew it I forgot.
What is the name of your poison slinger ?
Buffalo Bill called his "Lucretia Borgia."
Daniel Boone called his "Tick Licker."

Late muzzleloader season here opened yesterday with rain and mud.
So I only pretended to hunt yesterday.
Instead I took a Marco's Pizza XL Deluxe to the farm owner's house for lunch.

My public range is closed by some complaints from a cattle farmer whose pasture lies about a mile from the firing line.
I will devote this muzzle loader season developing some paper-patched loads for the CVA Paramount .45-cal.
Use it next year. I have three deer in the freezer. Don't need anymore right now,
unless I rush out and buy another freezer ...

Also the handloads for the 404-gr and 400-gr soft and solid combo,
to verify the new solid with longer nose projection, from CEB.
Using Benchmark in the Norma brass at shorter COLs below 3.4".
Goal is a flat 2500 fps with both bullets.
Also to verify that the .700" nose projection (ahead of first band) is as accurate as the 0.600" nose projection on the CEB brass solid.
Anything over 3.340" is a .458 WM+ load, where pressures as high as in a .458 Lott are permissible, heh-heh-heh.
Doc M at MIB has purchased some fresh Benchmark, he also has some 2012 or 2013 vintage.
That is what mine is, 2012-2013 from an 8-pound keg.
Seems good as new.
Hope to see from MIB what the 10 years and lot change does to Benchmark.
He will be testing standard .458 B&M and .458 WM ammo for pressure and velocity.

The .458 B&M+ at 0.260" shorter COL equals the .458 WM+ at whatever COL.
Both will beat a SAAMI .458 Lott, heh-heh-heh.

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/2023/12/09/a-single-shot-rifle-for-high-risk-game-really/

From Sir Bob's blog, latest installment, linked above, some highlights:



"... we now have the 404gr Shock Hammer from Hammer Bullets, in .458-cal, at .419 BC.
At near 2600 fps it’s capable of taking large game, like moose or eland, to 500 yds!"



RIFLE: Ruger No.1H

Cartridge: .458 Win Mag

Bullet: 404gr Shock Hammer

SD = .275

BC = .419

MV = 2580 fps/ 5972 ft-lbs (what I’ve gotten from the original 400gr X-Bullet in my Ruger No.1H)

100 = 2385/ 5102 ft-lbs/ +3.8″

200 = 2199/ 4377 ft-lbs/ +3″

300 = 2021/ 3664 ft-lbs/ -5″

400 = 1852/ 3077 ft-lbs/ -21.5″

500 = 1693/ 2572 ft-lbs/ -48″

"The ambient conditions for the above data would be average for my area. The heat of Africa would much improve those numbers."

Yep.
Load the 404-gr Shock Hammer to 3.58" from 2.5" brass in a .458 WinMag chamber and do not worry about pressure at 2580 fps.
Putting that same load into a SAAMI .458 Lott chamber is going to be dicey.

3.58" COL for the 404-gr Shock Hammer is a nice COL to work with in a Ruger No. 1 .458 WinMag, aka .458 WM+.

Sir Bob's blog entry from last week had some zingers directed at the Lottite propagandists.
For anyone who missed it, it is a "must read."

"The .458 Winchester Magnum vs The .458 Lott – P4"

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/2023/12/02/

I think this blast from the past might be IDF training photos.
Updated for 2023 ought to have a caption added, maybe like
"Sic the HamAss !"

Sir Ron,
Yes she has a name one most glorious and one that brings a hushed reverence when spoken. When she is called to duty, I speak these words to the gun room, “458, come forth!” The is her name. Cleopatra had no better label than she.
Best regards,
F01

Sir Dennis,
"458" or "The" which is it ?
Maybe "The 458" ?
Ha ! I reckon that is a pet name for all .458 Winchester Magnum rifles, and a good one it is.
The first and the best .458.
THE 458 !!!

Back to 1000-yard Creedmost sighting.

The Leupold MOA-Ring reticle has a -30 MOA tick mark when set on 4X.

The Nikon P3 Shotgun, SlugHunter and InLine with BDC 200 reticles can be used on 5X setting for 1008 yards on the bottom post.

The NightForce SHV 3-10x40 with MOAR reticle has a -30 MOA tick mark when set on 10X. Yeeha.

Get your 404-gr Shock Hammer doing 2500 fps MV.
Use a 20-MOA rail and sight rifle 19.1 MOA (20") high at 100 yards.
Rifle is now zeroed at very near 600 yards (OK, 598 yards),
and will strike the 1000-yard bull with a 30-MOA holdover.
The 10X scope setting will give some advantage over the iron sights used in 1874.

The SHV weighs 20.8 ounces. Rail weighs 4 ounces. Rings weigh 4 ounces.
Rounds to 29 ounces total add-on for optics, 1#13oz.
That leaves 8#3oz for bare rifle weight to make the 10# limit with no ammo.
That is exactly the weight of Freki and Geri, two contenders, both Mausers: 8#3oz bare.
Take advantage of every ounce.
10 pounds is perfect.

Hey All,

Looking through the recent posts in this thread, it appears that several members who responded to my query about their favorite .4** calibers are providing input here as well. This doesn't surprise since it was many of your comments that convinced me to give the .458 Win Mag a try. I enjoy new projects and stepping off of this particular cliff seemed really interesting. As the new kid on the block, I feel like a bit of an interloper in this thread full of gurus but since you prevailed in converting me to your way of thinking, I thought you might be as curious as me to see how this all pans out.

Anyway, as the first step in this journey, I thought I would introduce you to the new love in my life that I picked up earlier this afternoon:


1999 Ruger M77 MkII LH

She's been suffering from a chronic case of anemia for 25 years but I'm hoping that pulling the 7mm RM barrel off of her & replacing it with a McGowen 1:14 twist No. 5 in .458 WM will cure that. Barrel length hasn't been decided yet so feel free to throw suggestions my way if you like. I know I'll want to reinforce the stock but my intention is not to be shooting any of the primer-blowing loads that are flirting with a threshold that have been tested elsewhere in this thread. PG not DG is currently the intended goal.

Having said that, I will be moving this rifle up in power so any practical advice, caveats or suggested upgrades is always welcome. I didn't know if for example RH vs LH twist on the rifling is a consideration since I'm shooting off of my left shoulder. Research on the question of measurable torque for large powerful bullets wasn't definitive. Initially I'm going to try to keep the original laminate stock & see how it works before considering a replacement with something else like synthetic. I'm assuming I might make some rookie mistakes but, like most things, I'm hoping they'll be fixable with time, effort & money.

Hopefully at some point in the future I'll have an improved rifle that's fun to shoot. If I can hit that mark, then I'm going to name her Ophelia & find her a spot in my safe.

~Darryl

Darryl,

Congrats on your new rifle! A good find and its future looks bright as Ophelia. I'd keep that stock if possible, adding some crossbolts and bedding for strenth and stability. And I think a 23" barrel would look nice and suit your intentions. And overall weight ready to hunt should come in around 9.5 to about 10 lbs - because with experience you may want to shoot some of those heavyweights at worthwhile speeds.

I'm sure others will chime in with more detailed suggestions and/or advice.

Enjoy your new project/friend Ophelia!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Thanks Bob! This will be fun since I've never done anything like this before. I had put in an order to MidwayUSA earlier this week for some other stuff so I went ahead and grabbed a pair of Talley crossbolts in anticipation of this project. I'm going to be slow & methodical. Hopefully it'll be something nice when I'm done.

Well, it is about time we had a Sir Darryl at the Square Table.
Do you accept the title, odonata ?

The McGowen on my M70 is 23" long and is only a few fps slower than the 25" Shilen for MV.
The McGowen slugged at a true 0.458" groove diameter, minimum for SAAMI.
The Shilen is closer to 0.459" in groove diameter, SAAMI satisfying, exceeds the minimum by less than 0.001"

What makes for a faster barrel if both have the same length, chamber, throat and twist ?
Tight and smooth rifling, I guess, and the McGowen is tighter and at least as smooth as the Shilen, I guess.
The 23" McGowen and the 25" Shilen both did +2500 fps with the 400-gr GSC HV and 80.0 grains of AA-2230.
That was in pre-Hammer days.

Anyhow, speaking of speediness, here is the 404-gr at 2600 fps JUSTIFIED for the .458 WM+:

Look at the Woodleigh manual for the .458 Lott using the 400-gr PPSN cup&core, WeldCore.
That is a short bullet, 1.152" BOL, short nose projection, crimped on the cannelure the COL in the .458 Lott is 3.465".
They use 83.0 grains of Benchmark as a maximum load giving 2500 fps MV
and 87.0 grains of H4895 (COMPRESSED) for max load giving 2570 fps MV.

The 450-gr HYDRO (BOL = 1.452") was loaded to COL of 3.6" or less and used 85.0 grains of Benchmark (COMPRESSED) as max load: 2480 fps
Same bullet with 86.0 grains of H4895 (COMPRESSED) was also a max load: 2450 fps

All of those max loads are supposed to be less than 62,500 psi.

Seems like the 404-gr Shock Hammer (BOL = 1.440") loaded to 3.580" with 84.0 grains of Benchmark
in Norma brass might be a quite reasonable load regarding pressure (in the .458 WM+)
since the bullet is shorter and lighter than the HYDRO that was loaded with 1 grain more powder, in smaller capacity brass case.
Low drag PDR bands on the Hammer might be as slick as the brass HYDRO, maybe slicker.
And there is that thing about the longer throat on the .458 Winchester Magnum too.

I do believe this is a practical load for single-loading in any .458 Winchester Magnum, Bolt Action or Ruger No. 1:

404-gr Shock Hammer
Norma Brass Case
F-215 primer
COL = 3.580"
Propellant = BENCHMARK 84.0 grains
MV = 2612 fps
One-hole 3-shot group at 50 yards.

That was in a Pac-Nor 1:10" twist of 24.25" length, SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum chamber.
Pac-Nor slugged same as McGowen.
Twist has insignificant effects on pressure and velocity for the small difference of 10" versus 14".
Generally in the 20" to 25" range of barrel length, you only lose about 15 fps per inch of barrel shortening,
with a given barrel chambered for the Mighty .458 Winchester Magnum.
You'll lose more per inch for shortening below 20"
and gain less per inch for lengthening above 25".

Single load this 3.580" COL:



Fill a magazine box with this 3.360" COL, might be .458 WM+ by a whopping 0.020":



Zero the 404-grainer for 200 yards.
The 400-gr FN solid load will be near dead-on at 50 yards.
Like horse shoes and hand grenades.

Nice things will happen also with the 404-gr Shock Hammer at 2500 fps and 3.38" COL
still zeroed for 200 yards, only 2.5" high at 100 yards.
50-yard POI will be very close to 50-yard POI of 400-gr FN solid at same velocity.

Also the 2500 fps 404-gr Shock Hammer can be resighted with a switch of scopes
for 20" high at 100 yards, to hit dead-on at 600 yards,
and then hold 30-MOA high for a 1000-yard billboard target with 3'x3' square bullseye.
That's a prettier bunch of numbers to work with.

This combo is of Biblical importance:

My love of long comprehensive replies backed by quantifiable data compels me to accept this honor! Sir Ron, thanks for the detailed reply on the various options to consider.

I'm going to pick up my newly acquired LH Winchester 70 Safari Express in .375 H&H later today so it's been a good week over here. I look at it differently now that I know it would make a great .458 WM if I ever feel it's too wimpy at some point in the future.

I'm feeling so celebratory right now I might just burn a vacation day tomorrow & make it a 4-day weekend starting now...

The 404 Shock Hammer & 400 Safari Solid should make a smashing combination.

The 404 Shock Hammer seems to be winning hearts and minds as it's use grows. You did well Sir Ron, very well. I still believe it is the best all-purpose non-solid 458 bullet that I am aware. Pretty amazing what this little sub-500 grainer accomplishes. Add the CEB #13 solids, CEB Raptors, the North Fork 350 grain Expanding Cup Point Solids, and the more conventional bullets on the market, the .458 is bullet rich.

Congrats on finding the two lefties, especially the Win M70 in 375 H&H.

On your Ruger 458 conversion, if I may I’d suggest you try to buy the Ruger SS factory banded front sight base, banded sling swivel base and rear sight that Ruger fits to their SS Alaska/Guide guns in 375R and 416R. Then have the 458 barrel profiled to fit the factory parts. It would really look the part, a SS Ruger in 458 WM.

Thanks! I'm not going to lie when I say I'm really excited about the M70. It has such a great heft & feel about it. This purchase all started when a hunting buddy kept talking about taking a trip to Africa and that dream collided with my fondness for classic calibers. So I asked a question about the versatility of using more powerful rifles like this on thinner skinned game. One recommendation that came from some more experienced hunters was that I would get a lot of mileage out of a 30-06 / 375 H&H combo if I ever decided to go hunting for plains game. So my Sako 85 Hunter & the newly-acquired Winchester M70 now cover that possible scenario:



I'm really looking forward to taking the M70 out to the range tomorrow & see how she shoots. I took the Sako out last Sunday & was really pleased when my last three shots off a bean bag at 100 yards made a single hole. For my terrible eyes, that's about as good as it ever gets (i.e. don't ask me to repeat this feat ).




The only "problem" that the first thread created was it piqued my interest in some of the larger .4** size calibers and that lead to a second thread that wound up with me surprisingly deciding to build a 458 WM. I don't think I properly appreciated the versatility of this particular round until some of its enthusiasts started recommending it. For me, having puzzles to think about is always a good thing. I generally take any project I decide to do and then start by making it as involved, time-consuming & over-complicated as I possibly can . I don't do anything quickly. One of my last little fun side projects was cobbling together a stereo system and I took almost a year to get that task accomplished.

So trying to make this new build look special is going to be a fun challenge. One of the first hurdles is that the majority of the barrel bands & sights I've seen are either blued or in the white. Stainless is not as common. The one that is at Midway USA below, has an inside diameter of .560. As you pointed out in my previous thread, you need ~0.125" of barrel around the bore, so .560 - (2 * 0.125) = .310". It appears that this front sight was designed to go around .308 caliber barrels with a .560 muzzle. To mount it on a .458 muzzle, either the tip of the barrel or the inside of the sight would have to be filed down considerably to the point of possibly being unsafe or unusable. Locating the exact ones that are used on the .416 Ruger Guide Gun might be more appropriate and a fun scavenger hunt to try to accomplish. I'll keep you posted if I can make some progress.

Sir Larry,
Asante sana sana to you
and to Hammer Bullets
and to CEB and
and to Michael McCourry for making it happen with CEB.
Best regards to Cousin JWP.

Sir Darryl,
Some eye candy is the Ruger of Sir Gus on the other side of the equator, maybe down Argentina way, IIRC.
Jungle Carbine:

Sir Darryl,

Let the gunsmith order the barrel-band front sight after he gets your barrel squared away.
Fitting is a little ticklish, done properly.
Doesn't have to be stainless front sight on a stainless barrel, just get it matte-blacked whatever steel it is.
NECG is the place to start for sight parts.
All-time favorite front sights:
If not a gold patridge/sourdough, then this:

The open rear sight is not so important to me anymore.
I would just as soon have a fold-down rear like on the Winchester M70 XTR .
Makes it easy to use a peep rear sight,
again from NECG is a dandy "ghost ring" that attaches to the integral Ruger scope base.

I also prefer a forend tip stud for sling instead of the barrel-banded type: