Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters I will not use a 175 ELD X on game again

Dang it, I said I wouldn’t but now I have to.

Cow elk a couple of years ago, 375 yards broadside. You can see the entrance above her elbow.



The 162 ELDX center punched the humerus just below the shoulder knuckle.



Pretty decent sized bone.




Through the rib cage, destroying lungs, found under the hide on the far side.



Tough to ask more from a bullet than that.

7mm Rem Mag, mv just shy of 3k.






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Found the 25cal version to hold up well on several bears.

Rather stout bullet.

If we're talking bullets for the 7mm Rem Magnum I'm fine with 160 grain Accubonds or 145 grain LRX for elk size game. They both penetrate and kill well. They don't have BC's as high as the ELD bullets but they're fine out to 400-500 yards which is as far as I'm gong to shoot anyway. After all, I killed my last bull a month ago with a 168 grain TTSX from a .30-06 at all of 30 yards. It was DRT.

LRX and done

I have no experience with 175eldx although I’m keenly interested as I have a box I was going to work up loads for in a STW this winter. I will say I’ve seen a lot crazy things over the years. I saw a 180g partition at 06 velocity take a 90 degree turn on a mule deer hit behind the shoulder from about 45yds. I also remember a 200gr ballistic tip do the same thing on an elk at 400+. It hit the last rib on entry and it exited about 8” from the entrance. A small piece of jacket was found in the near lung which apparently slowed the elk enough that I was able to hit high in the neck as it walked straight away. My point is the improbable happens with living breathing flesh. Had I not experienced both, I’m not sure I would have believed either event.

Here is a pondering.

Does anyone think that the bullet design may have been tweaked a little by Hornady? QC issue? Been known to happen.

That is my thinking (mono metal) also, but I do have some 77gr scenars loaded for my 22-250. Have not shot anything but paper and steel with them so far. Maybe a deer or antelope is on the agenda for next year.

Recently on a long range hunting forum someone asked for a bullet recommendation for his 300 WSM for elk inside 500 yards. Since I have some experience with the round, including on elk, I offered my opinion the 180 NP would be ideal. I mentioned I'd used it on game out to 550 yards with stellar results. One member took offense and snidely remarked, "you do know this is a long range forum, right?"

People are more sheep than human at times... pass the Partitions.

I’ve said in other posts I may load up some new production bullets and try them again. My samples were all from the same case of early production factory ammo. From what I experienced, I attributed the issues to jacket inconsistencies.

Sometimes a picture is better than words... those are nice results IMO.

I think the point being made is that they struggle up close. At 375 yards, that bullet is likely going in the 2100-2200 FPS depending on the atmosphere where the shot was made.

I had excellent results with longer shots, but found them too explosive at closer ranges, especially on whitetail.

I’ve been told they have a harder core so while they are still thinly jacketed they seem to hold up well. Used the 220 from a 300 RUM and 139 from a CM and PRC on little old deer and didn’t note any sort of massive destruction you’d expect.

I'm paying close attention to the real world experiences here and in particular the guys with enough experience to make meaningful observations - Jordan Smith, beretzs, Mr. Burns, et al. I have precisely zero experience with ELD Xs or and VLD bullet on game near or far with the exception of one decent sized white tail and a 160 CX in the factory Hornady 7PRC load.

What is interesting to me in figuring out what cup and core VLD I might be comfortable with is Jordan Smith's positive experience with the 180 ELD M and Sakoluvr's and others' negative experience with the ELD X. I think Hornady's concern with the 175 ELD X was that it open up way out there at minimal velocity. Maybe they were scared from the Bergers' penciling through way out there a while back? And, they were afraid of the same thing happening with the 180 ELD M and maybe they didn't need to be. And, maybe the fix for the anticipated problem created a new problem. I'm almost inclined to go with the ELD M for a cup and core especially at the 2,812 f/s I get from the factory load. Mule Deer's rule for cup and cores, if I remember correctly, is 2,700 - 2,800 f/s at the muzzle. This seems to be beretzs' recommendation as well. I want a bullet that works near and far and based on the 160 CX at 15 yds, that or the 168 LRX are the easy button. And with BCs of .596 and .550 you're not giving up a lot.

But, check out these pics from a Guns & Ammo article by Tom Beckstrand (pics by Mark Fingar) that show the differeces in the ELD M vs. ELD X:



Anyway, thanks for all the info., guys!

One thing to remember, muzzle velocity doesn't mean squat. You have to plan for impact velocity. Due to different BCs, two bullets with the same muzzle velocity may have largely different impact velocity. The bullet at the target doesn't give two squirts what it started out as.

What is counter intuitive to most is that bullets get softer/hotter the longer they are zipping through the air.

This is why the plastic tips can burn off at long range.

The only Berger VLD "failures" (2) I have seen seen were close up with VLDs that had very little air space at the hollow point and didn't get any bone on the way in to the critter. Animals were recovered and the bullets didn't open enough to cause a good wound channel.

I have never seen a VLD fail to penetrate deep enough. Up close on elk shoulders the 6MM 105gr VLD works great.

Adding a plastic tip to the bullet means there will be expansion immediately on contact.

Nosler BTs got a redesign early on because of a lack of penetration. Now they work pretty well.

ELDXs have always had problems with opening much to fast. That does not mean they fail everytime but they fail way more than a good hunting bullet should.

Ted had issues with VLDs not penetrating enough on game and the same rifle destroyed ELDXs in the air.

The HPBT (Hollow Point Boat Tail) is the best hunting bullet design and not many know that Jack O'Connor used the Western Tool HPBT to cement the reputation of the .270 Win many, many decades ago.

Well, that's interesting. Thank you.

Elmer Keith and Hagel wrote about them quite a lot as well.

Seems like the Scenar is very similar...

Well the Scenar is a HPBT. Seems to have as good terminal performance as the VLDs but gives up a few point in BC and in competition it can't quite hang with the Berger for accuracy.

Elk won't notice and Scenar is a good choice for those who want Berger VLD terminal performance but don't want Yellow bullet boxes.

I got some 155’s to try in the Montana as well. Too many folks have been raving about them to not try em.