First thought was they finally brought back SS, but it's just ceracote. Probably still pick one up in 22 ARC as soon as they come out, even though I don't like AR mags on bolt guns.
That said they are so busy making $$$$ on these, no wonder you can not find any 77's (which I really don't care about) or #1's (which I do care about.)
They got the barrel length right. The standard had the 22" then some of the other models were 18". Finally, a 20" barrel. I wonder if the 3 position safety trigger group will retro-fit to the older models?
I'd imagine these will hit the market at around $650.
Just from the pictures, it looks like that stock will have the same magwells as the previous gen. Hopefully, you will be able to change between AICS magwell and the AR magwell to fix any oal issues.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
They redesigned the AI mag latch assembly. Dont have to remove the latch in order to take the rifle apart. Also, the bolt knob is threaded on, makes it easier to install a different knob. I watched the disassembly & assembly videos on rugers site, I bet that gen I and gen II stocks interchange.
I’d like to see the Grendel take the mini-thirty mags like the 7.62x39 version. Not a fan of that long mag sticking out, but I’ll be tempted to get one for sure.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding. So you can convert say a 223 from ar type magazines to AI type magazines? That would be great if so.
If I wanted a Ruger American, that rifle would stay in the store. For shooting it might fit someone's bill. If it's awkward to carry they are a no go for me, and that looks very awkward, mag hanging down, rail instead of basic mounts, and the bipod, are all turn offs! Everyone has their likes, so many will buy it ( it's got tbe tactical look). I do like tbe barrel.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding. So you can convert say a 223 from ar type magazines to AI type magazines? That would be great if so.
Yes, at least on the Gen 1.5 stock (with modular bottom metal).
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding. So you can convert say a 223 from ar type magazines to AI type magazines? That would be great if so.
yes you just then have to buy AI style magazines made for 223 ammo I've got several MDT brand
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
That's good info. My buddy has 4 of the RAR Ranch rifles, and the 6.5 Grendel is the worst feeding of the bunch. It came with an aluminum mag, and it's terrible. We tried other mags, like the Pmags, and they fed a little better, but still not the smoothest. Those MDT mags sound spendy.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
That's good info. My buddy has 4 of the RAR Ranch rifles, and the 6.5 Grendel is the worst feeding of the bunch. It came with an aluminum mag, and it's terrible. We tried other mags, like the Pmags, and they fed a little better, but still not the smoothest. Those MDT mags sound spendy.
I never seen a 6.5 Grendel coming anything but an AR mag. but if doing a conversion job Ruger will tell you the bolt should have the flat spot milled out for the conversion.. I've done some conversion and other chamberings that Ruger told me probably wouldn't work good but it did that were not mailed out that might be something to keep in mind I guess
I'm not seeing any left-hand models. Guess I'll just buy another Tikka.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but I think the Gen 1 stock looks better than this.
I think that the 3 position safety is a good thing. I wrote to Ruger about 5 or 6 years ago and asked for this. Looks like they are finally making the enhancement, as I know it was a pain point for many.
I see the functionality of the stock is missed on some people and this is probably people that really don't shoot much. one of the biggest shortcomings of the first generation is the stock is way too low on the cheek piece area for the height of the rail. now you can buy some different attachments and get rid of the rail and help the situation but you need to carefully mount Scopes to line up and have a good cheek weild.. whether you like the appearance or not is personal preference I reckon but there is some of that is very practical. but if you shoot five shots a year you probably don't understand..
I see the functionality of the stock is missed on some people and this is probably people that really don't shoot much. one of the biggest shortcomings of the first generation is the stock is way too low on the cheek piece area for the height of the rail. now you can buy some different attachments and get rid of the rail and help the situation but you need to carefully mount Scopes to line up and have a good cheek weild.. whether you like the appearance or not is personal preference I reckon but there is some of that is very practical. but if you shoot five shots a year you probably don't understand..
I see the functionality of the stock is missed on some people and this is probably people that really don't shoot much. one of the biggest shortcomings of the first generation is the stock is way too low on the cheek piece area for the height of the rail. now you can buy some different attachments and get rid of the rail and help the situation but you need to carefully mount Scopes to line up and have a good cheek weild.. whether you like the appearance or not is personal preference I reckon but there is some of that is very practical. but if you shoot five shots a year you probably don't understand..
I see the functionality of the stock is missed on some people and this is probably people that really don't shoot much. one of the biggest shortcomings of the first generation is the stock is way too low on the cheek piece area for the height of the rail. now you can buy some different attachments and get rid of the rail and help the situation but you need to carefully mount Scopes to line up and have a good cheek weild.. whether you like the appearance or not is personal preference I reckon but there is some of that is very practical. but if you shoot five shots a year you probably don't understand..
Would look better if dropped in a Magpul stock.
I also have a few of them. and they work at their best with the AI magazines
Ruger really should've just went stainless. As for the stock I'm betting it's much better that the original. Safety looks like a nice upgrade. Cost is too high for what it is.
They're offering some new 77 Hawkeye. FTW model for lefties. MSRP is at $1999🙄.
I keep hoping and emailing them about an “American” in the hornet family of cartridges but once again no dice. I’m probably the oddball who wants an entry level 17H (but not a savage).
I see the functionality of the stock is missed on some people and this is probably people that really don't shoot much. one of the biggest shortcomings of the first generation is the stock is way too low on the cheek piece area for the height of the rail. now you can buy some different attachments and get rid of the rail and help the situation but you need to carefully mount Scopes to line up and have a good cheek weild.. whether you like the appearance or not is personal preference I reckon but there is some of that is very practical. but if you shoot five shots a year you probably don't understand..
No doubt the stock is too low with the rail, so I eliminated the rail and all is fine.
They are going to sell a gazillion of the 450BM and 350L rifles. Gen 1's are in every household here in Michigan already, I can't imagine how many Gen 2's will be sold, based on the upgrades and looks alone.
All of the competitors in that "budget" rifle market better step it up or they are going to be screwed.
I really think some of you guys living in the western states don't understand the sheer number of straight wall rifles that are sold here in the Great Lakes area. It's way more than the standard calibers. Michigan alone is selling $600,000 deer licenses a year, staggering number.
They are going to sell a gazillion of the 450BM and 350L rifles. Gen 1's are in every household here in Michigan already, I can't imagine how many Gen 2's will be sold, based on the upgrades and looks alone.
All of the competitors in that "budget" rifle market better step it up or they are going to be screwed.
I really think some of you guys living in the western states don't understand the sheer number of straight wall rifles that are sold here in the Great Lakes area. It's way more than the standard calibers. Michigan alone is selling $600,000 deer licenses a year, staggering number.
Probably not many. The 450s have been out several years, and in Michigan many variations and special runs were/are available through Randy's in Bad Axe. Ruger screwed the 350s by using AR mags, and butchering the bolt body to make the mag work. If they don't change the magazine to a simple plastic stack magazine like the 450 uses, there will be no draw for new buyers. Most hunters don't want AR or AICS magazines to hunt with.
How many that already have 350s and 450s are going to sell them to buy the Gen2 or just buy a Gen2 as a second one? Maybe some, but not a lot. Yes, the new 400 is cataloged now by Ruger. 2 models, again probably using AR magazines. Another fail. In another month, Winchester will announce probably 20+ different variations in 400 Legend. Savage and Mossberg 400s are already out on shelves.
The competition has no worries. In fact, the competition will probably get more sales because of these new Ruger models. Winchester also introduced left hand 350 models, and will have a left hand 400. Something Ruger has refused to do.
It's like the designers at Ruger challenged themselves by asking: "How could we build a rifle that's even uglier than a TC Dimension" and out from their drawing boards popped this hideous monstrosity.
It's like the designers at Ruger challenged themselves by asking: "How could we build a rifle that's even uglier than a TC Dimension" and out from their drawing boards popped this hideous monstrosity.
No kidding. Camo dipped stocks would have looked better than copying a home rattle can job.
And the twisted flutes are a waste. The expense for the fluting could have gone to a better stock design.
Looks fine to me. I am tempted to hunt a season with one (steel/cerakoted) and see how it holds up to the rainforest. Maybe actually run a patch through it after every hunt to try to keep the bore ok.
Looks fine to me. I am tempted to hunt a season with one (steel/cerakoted) and see how it holds up to the rainforest. Maybe actually run a patch through it after every hunt to try to keep the bore ok.
I think that is one of the inherent drawbacks of these coatings being applied to CM steel guns by the manufacturer. Joe Average sees no rust on the outside of his gun after using it in bad conditions and believes all the marketing about the gun being "weatherproof" forgetting about the naked CM steel bore. If the rifle had been blued CM on the exterior, the condition of said exterior might have kept Joe mindful of taking better care of the rifle overall, in which case the bore was not as frequently subjected to being ridden hard and put away wet. A local gunsmith I know hates this trend with coated/dipped waterfowl guns, as the hunters don't see any rust forming on the outside, so they don't think about rust on the inside and then he has to fix rusty action/trigger innards and frozen choke tubes.
LGS just got allocated 2, Ruger American Gen IIs in 450 Bushmaster. Should be seeing them in the next couple of days. I'm gonna check them out when they get here.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
My standard RAR in 308 has been fantastic. Accurate and dependable. At $350 it was a steal.
The only thing I dislike is the aforementioned safety that doesn't lock the bolt.
If they turn out to be compatible, I will order the new 3 position the moment they become available.
Could even be talked into the new model if they become available in LH.
My take on it too. Actually would be happy with a very early first gen with the lower, non pic rail (or a pic rail of that height), rotary mag and 3 position safety.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
My take, not that it matters, is that they took a known cheap rifle that shot well, without great aesthetics (but originally that was okay because everybody knew what it was intended to be) and made it stand out as uglier. On purpose. Even put thought and work into it, it appears.
Same with the Savage Axis II.
I'm admittedly not a synthetic stock fan, but geeze, can we save the space age looking hunting rifles for the next star wars movie?
I own 1 synthetic stocked rifle as a bad weather beater. Even though it's a M98 with all steel parts, it still lacks soul for me housed in that synthetic.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
It really is reimiscent of the Savage Axis stock Just funkier.
Kinda like the original just fine. Willing to try the new one but...wasn't broke. Just "cooler" lookin now. Hey, if they sell more, more power to em I guess.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
It really is reimiscent of the Savage Axis stock Just funkier.
Kinda like the original just fine. Willing to try the new one but...wasn't broke. Just "cooler" lookin now. Hey, if they sell more, more power to em I guess.
Yeah, I watched a video on them. Seems like that new AI mag they use is much better than any RAR I've seen, in terms of feeding and reliability. I don't like the stock at all though. I think it's the younger generation trying to make a rifle what they think it should be. Even though it's hideous as schidt. Kind of like the skinny jeans those guys wear. Or the man buns. Like someone else said, they should have spent less time on fluting and more time on the design of the stock, but they also need to get the right designers in there. Hell, at this point I'd beg them to put a B&C on it and get rid of the fugly one they used!!!!!
A simple stock like this, would suffice:
However, I think they are trying to cater to the younger generation.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
My take, not that it matters, is that they took a known cheap rifle that shot well, without great aesthetics (but originally that was okay because everybody knew what it was intended to be) and made it stand out as uglier. On purpose. Even put thought and work into it, it appears.
Same with the Savage Axis II.
I'm admittedly not a synthetic stock fan, but geeze, can we save the space age looking hunting rifles for the next star wars movie?
I own 1 synthetic stocked rifle as a bad weather beater. Even though it's a M98 with all steel parts, it still lacks soul for me housed in that synthetic.
The type of stock that is on the rifle does not give it soul. What the rifle has done in it's life is what gives it "soul". My rifle with the most soul, wears a factory tupperware stock. When a rifle was a guys only rifle, and he cared for it and loved it, and took only that rifle on hunts, that is what gives it soul.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
My standard RAR in 308 has been fantastic. Accurate and dependable. At $350 it was a steal.
The only thing I dislike is the aforementioned safety that doesn't lock the bolt.
If they turn out to be compatible, I will order the new 3 position the moment they become available.
Could even be talked into the new model if they become available in LH.
Not likely at all, because there would be some kind of linkage to the bolt body, catching in a recess machined into the bolt body, which older models do not have. Might be able to be retrofitted, but not easily
As far as left hand, I wouldn't put much money on that one either. Nothing in the new products. The predator LH models still are on the site, but that line probably will get dropped shortly.
The best LH Americans were the special run of LH SS rifles that Davidsons did.
My standard RAR in 308 has been fantastic. Accurate and dependable. At $350 it was a steal.
The only thing I dislike is the aforementioned safety that doesn't lock the bolt.
If they turn out to be compatible, I will order the new 3 position the moment they become available.
Could even be talked into the new model if they become available in LH.
Not likely at all, because there would be some kind of linkage to the bolt body, catching in a recess machined into the bolt body, which older models do not have. Might be able to be retrofitted, but not easily
As far as left hand, I wouldn't put much money on that one either. Nothing in the new products. The predator LH models still are on the site, but that line probably will get dropped shortly.
The best LH Americans were the special run of LH SS rifles that Davidsons did.
Not only am I left handed, I'm married with kids.
I'm used to being left out!
Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
My take, not that it matters, is that they took a known cheap rifle that shot well, without great aesthetics (but originally that was okay because everybody knew what it was intended to be) and made it stand out as uglier. On purpose. Even put thought and work into it, it appears.
Same with the Savage Axis II.
I'm admittedly not a synthetic stock fan, but geeze, can we save the space age looking hunting rifles for the next star wars movie?
I own 1 synthetic stocked rifle as a bad weather beater. Even though it's a M98 with all steel parts, it still lacks soul for me housed in that synthetic.
The type of stock that is on the rifle does not give it soul. What the rifle has done in it's life is what gives it "soul". My rifle with the most soul, wears a factory tupperware stock. When a rifle was a guys only rifle, and he cared for it and loved it, and took only that rifle on hunts, that is what gives it soul.
Your opinion but I disagree. First it was stamped metal, but at least polished and blued where needed, and still some hand care of the overall fit and finish. Now it's injection molded stocks and parts of all sorts.
The more a rifle is either made, or made to look like just a utilitarian tool, the more it becomes just that. Killing 50 deer with a hammer still makes that particular hammer, just another hammer.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
It's like the designers at Ruger challenged themselves by asking: "How could we build a rifle that's even uglier than a TC Dimension" and out from their drawing boards popped this hideous monstrosity.
No kidding. Camo dipped stocks would have looked better than copying a home rattle can job.
And the twisted flutes are a waste. The expense for the fluting could have gone to a better stock design.
I like flutes as long as they are straight. I am not a fan of the twisted flutes. I can pretty much deal with the synthetic stock and cerro coating. But, not the twisted flutes. Just me.
kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
The best LH Americans were the special run of LH SS rifles that Davidsons did.
I'm pretty fond of mine.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
That's sad, probably never owned a pre 64 model 70 (or any model 70 for that matter), Tikka, or even a m1917.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Tacticool bro! I can now run my Spacepro 10x100x85 mega scope, twist yo dials and splash the buckster and 2000 yards ovah in buttfugg county. Call me Scumlawd yo! No thanks. I can afford what I want and that ain't it.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
That's sad, probably never owned a pre 64 model 70 (or any model 70 for that matter), Tikka, or even a m1917.
That's fair, my RAR is not as slick as my M70s and not close to my Tikka. That said, it is not "hitchy" like my M77s.
I've said this before, but I believe the cartridge (308) is a contributing factor. The geometry of that round with any remotely pointy bullet just wants to be in the chamber.
It is a bit disconcerting that despite having some pretty nice rifles, the RAR goes to woods with me more often than not. Mine is accurate, dependable and utilitarian to the extreme.
Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
That's nice, my 223 feeds like a vegan at a steakhouse.
It's all good, some people are happy paying $125 for lipstick painted $20 rigging axe.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
They made 22” SS Predator models for a bit. Stab that barreled action in an updated stock with a better DBM and there’s a Gen2 that actually makes more sense to me.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
I put the Boyd's laminated Heritage style stocks on several RAR-Ps and although the handling characteristics were improved, the weight increase by a full pound.
Exercising 20/20 hindsight, I would just put Beartooth comb riser kits on the factory stocks if I had known then what I know now.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
The stock looks to be improved although I'd prefer a slightly wider forearm, and I like the adjustable LOP. But the 20 inch standard barrel length is a non-starter for me. I generally prefer 24 inch barrels although 22 inches is OK with me for some cartridges. If I hunted frequently in areas with lots of dense cover then the 20 inch barrel might make sense, but I don't.
The stock looks to be improved although I'd prefer a slightly wider forearm, and I like the adjustable LOP. But the 20 inch standard barrel length is a non-starter for me. I generally prefer 24 inch barrels although 22 inches is OK with me for some cartridges. If I hunted frequently in areas with lots of dense cover then the 20 inch barrel might make sense, but I don't.
I didn't even notice that the first time around on their site. The hideous looks detracted from the specs apparently. Yeah, they screwed up on that as well. Their reason is to cater to the silencer crowd. Not sure if the long action cartridges will have longer barrels or not, no specs on those yet. So, choice is a Ranch with 16" barrel or the standard with 20" barrel.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
That's sad, probably never owned a pre 64 model 70 (or any model 70 for that matter), Tikka, or even a m1917.
That's fair, my RAR is not as slick as my M70s and not close to my Tikka. That said, it is not "hitchy" like my M77s.
I've said this before, but I believe the cartridge (308) is a contributing factor. The geometry of that round with any remotely pointy bullet just wants to be in the chamber.
It is a bit disconcerting that despite having some pretty nice rifles, the RAR goes to woods with me more often than not. Mine is accurate, dependable and utilitarian to the extreme.
Good points. They are definitely utilitarian. My damn buddy keeps buying them, and then he invites me to go shooting. I install all of his scopes. Pull the factory rails off and blue loctite them, because they have loosened up on him before. Now he knows it's like my religion to blue loctite everything down and he follows suit, which is good to see. He had me put a thermal on one of his yote rigs (first gen RAR Ranch 223) the other night. All of his RAR Ranch rifles shoot very well. They are a little clunky, but they work. I think after watching the videos on the RAR gen 2, they appear to run a lot smoother than the first gens. Reports on how well they shoot would be cool. Maybe some of you here will get to do some testing with them and report back.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
The stock looks to be improved although I'd prefer a slightly wider forearm, and I like the adjustable LOP. But the 20 inch standard barrel length is a non-starter for me. I generally prefer 24 inch barrels although 22 inches is OK with me for some cartridges. If I hunted frequently in areas with lots of dense cover then the 20 inch barrel might make sense, but I don't.
I didn't even notice that the first time around on their site. The hideous looks detracted from the specs apparently. Yeah, they screwed up on that as well. Their reason is to cater to the silencer crowd. Not sure if the long action cartridges will have longer barrels or not, no specs on those yet. So, choice is a Ranch with 16" barrel or the standard with 20" barrel.
You can do anything with a 20” barrel as far as hunting
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
What a load of crap.
How so?
I think the load of crap reference is in regards to not caring that the magazine feeds or not.
Unfortunately this further development of the RAR probably means that we won't ever see more production of the Mk2 or Hawkeye All Weather models. Those are the best in the Ruger line up. If they would update some twist rates and give a bit longer mag length, that would be about all a guy would need in a good hunting rig.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
What a load of crap.
How so?
I think the load of crap reference is in regards to not caring that the magazine feeds or not.
Unfortunately this further development of the RAR probably means that we won't ever see more production of the Mk2 or Hawkeye All Weather models. Those are the best in the Ruger line up. If they would update some twist rates and give a bit longer mag length, that would be about all a guy would need in a good hunting rig.
Bingo. Most hunters want a rifle that is reliable and functional and yes, even accurate. Hell, I want a mag that works, even when I'm out killing jackrabbits and yotes. An ill feeding rifle would not last long in my stable.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
On feeding and the AI mags: I can't speak for the gen 2, but the original steel AI mags feed my mercan flawlessly. I set the depth of the bottom metal where the point of any bullet clears the feed ramp as the rifle is cycled. NO magazine system would feed better. That 3rd lug points downward when cycling. It gets a larger puchase of the rim than any 2-lug bolt.
These fkn window-lickers at Ruger were smart to just simply adopt the AI mag as standard.
I loaded up flat points, round nose, spitzers and hollowpoints. NOTHING caught up. Flawless cycling. Balance point is right under reciever ring, so the magazine doesn't impede carry at the balance point. Actually, the thin, round countour of the stock under the receiver, no other rifle carries as nicely. Feels like carrying a miniature savage 99 receiver. Comfy......
Everybody bitchn about these gen II rifles feeding poorly. The only one released so far without an AI or AR mag is the 450 bushmaster model, I have never had any feeding issues for either the AI mag (223, 6creed, 6.5 creed) or the AR mag (223 & 7.62x39). I dont believe these new models will have any problem feeding from either style mag, the rotary mag models, if any, have not been released for the gen II. Even the single stack mag (6.5prc) feeds. Maybe just wait and see if there is any issues before condemning the damn rifle.
Everybody bitchn about these gen II rifles feeding poorly. The only one released so far without an AI or AR mag is the 450 bushmaster model, I have never had any feeding issues for either the AI mag (223, 6creed, 6.5 creed) or the AR mag (223 & 7.62x39). I dont believe these new models will have any problem feeding from either style mag, the rotary mag models, if any, have not been released for the gen II. Even the single stack mag (6.5prc) feeds. Maybe just wait and see if there is any issues before condemning the damn rifle.
Well, it is a Ruger, so low expectations are warranted. It wouldn't surprise me to see them flute the inside of the barrel, rifle the outside and miss it during QC.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
What a load of crap.
How so?
Doesn't matter, you're too stupid to understand that something should function, and too damn smug to imagine you might actually need a 2nd shot.
I'd be amazed if you ever killed a deer in your lifetime.
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
What a load of crap.
How so?
Doesn't matter, you're too stupid to understand that something should function, and too damn smug to imagine you might actually need a 2nd shot.
I'd be amazed if you ever killed a deer in your lifetime.
My RARs in 204, 243, 260, and 6.5CM feed good enough for me from the original, first style, rotary magazines, only the 223s and 22-250s have had issues.
If I think that I might need a quick second shot, I carry a semi-auto or a pump gun. My preferred semi-autos are the Ruger 44 International or one of my Winchester 100s in 243 or 308. My black timber elk rifle is a Remington 760 in 270
I usually shoot between 8 and 12 deer each year in Nebraska and have averaged just over 10 per year over the past decade. My close to home hunting lease is within the boundaries of the River WMA, so I can shoot as many antlerless whitetails as I want to buy $14 tags for. Each River WMA tag is good for 2 antlerless whitetails.
However, I can remember the last time that I had to shoot a deer twice, that was in 2017. My first shot hit it in the empty space just below the spine and above the lungs, stunned it. I though that it was DRT, but I noticed that it got up and staggered off while I was field dressing one of the other deer that I had shot that morning. The bad part was that it staggered into 20' deep creek bed and I had to field dress it in the creek and cut it in half to recover it. I shoot deer because it provides me with an opportunity for me to try different rifles, cartridges, and loads. I give most of the deer that I shoot to Hunters Helping the Hungry.
Everybody bitchn about these gen II rifles feeding poorly. The only one released so far without an AI or AR mag is the 450 bushmaster model, I have never had any feeding issues for either the AI mag (223, 6creed, 6.5 creed) or the AR mag (223 & 7.62x39). I dont believe these new models will have any problem feeding from either style mag, the rotary mag models, if any, have not been released for the gen II. Even the single stack mag (6.5prc) feeds. Maybe just wait and see if there is any issues before condemning the damn rifle.
I agree that the new Gen II’s won’t have feeding problems using the AI magazine, 450 BM, or the PRC mags. The ones that have well documented, major magazine issues are the 6.5 CM and 350 Legend in combination with AR models. There is no denying that they almost always hang up.
There hasn’t been a “rotary” mag in years. Yes they still have a flush mount mag on recent gen 1 models, but it’s a more traditional double stack spring and follower. These have issues in the 6.5 CM if you try to load more than 3. The solution is to load one in the chamber, then load the mag with 2 so there are 3 loaded overall. Then it won’t hang up. Under heavy use, these mags still have long-term problems even with older, non-steep shouldered cartridges, too.
I agree with the poster that stated that most of these “standard” models will come with AI mags because they know they are the most reliable long term and don’t want phone calls about issues, as they end up sending new mags or taking the rifle in for warranty work. I prefer flush mags, floor plates, and blind mags for the way I hold and carry and rifle in hunting situations, but it seems this applies to less and less hunters each year. The trend is non-flush mags, threaded bbls for muzzle breaks or suppressors, vertical grip stocks, etc. I also would prefer a more traditional looking stock.
Last edited by hinesf4i; 12/22/23. Reason: Grammar
More money for a rifle that likely still feeds badly.
My 308 American sporter was made in 2014. Still running the original rotsry mag in it It has always fed flawlessly. One of the smoothest feeding bolt rifles I have ever owned.
I've seen this assertion here before. Even in the "gunwriter section".
The plastic American rotary mag is the most frail, piece of sht, fkn garbage mag, ever made. I suspect guys haven't pushed the mag past their narrow, fair weather points of view.
Here's what happened with my rotary mag: repeated use with spicy recoiling 200 grain handloads in the 308 winchester, the tips of the bullets gouged the [bleep] out of the little Tupperware thingy. Would no longer reliably cycle.
Ordered 2 of the "improved" ruger mags from midway usa. BOTH mags bound up, before they were even put in the rifle. Too much flex from all the frail, flimsy plastic. Both were returned and I was stuck with a rifle that didn't work. The early mercan is not compatible with a ruger-supplied AI stock(I called them). So had to retrofit a boyds ai kit to the original stock.
I suspect this "gen 2" is simply a marketing ploy to cover the real reason for the change: Ruger was tired of the non-stop customer returns of a rifle that has a poorly engineered magazine. For example: Look guys! Twirly flutes! They have electrolytes! It's what plants crave.
I currently have 14 center fire Ruger American Rifles, 12 of them in the Predator style. The 223 and 22-250 rotary magazines don't feed as well as the others, but I'm not particularly demanding, as I expect to make the first shot count, making the rounds that remain in the magazine superfluous.
I don't live where there are any dangerous four legged predators and none of the black bears or mountain lions that I have encountered while elk hunting have ever done anything that would require me to shoot them in self-defense. If I lived in a place where encounters with dangerous predators were a regular occurrence, I'd opt not to carry a Ruger American. My 308 RAR-P has the detachable box magazine and feeds the 150 and 165 grain Hornady American Whitetail ammo fine, but to be fair it has been fired less than 100 times.
Another one of those different people, different scenarios, different requirements situations.
What a load of crap.
How so?
Doesn't matter, you're too stupid to understand that something should function, and too damn smug to imagine you might actually need a 2nd shot.
I'd be amazed if you ever killed a deer in your lifetime.
My RARs in 204, 243, 260, and 6.5CM feed good enough for me from the original, first style, rotary magazines, only the 223s and 22-250s have had issues.
If I think that I might need a quick second shot, I carry a semi-auto or a pump gun. My preferred semi-autos are the Ruger 44 International or one of my Winchester 100s in 243 or 308. My black timber elk rifle is a Remington 760 in 270
I usually shoot between 8 and 12 deer each year in Nebraska and have averaged just over 10 per year over the past decade. My close to home hunting lease is within the boundaries of the River WMA, so I can shoot as many antlerless whitetails as I want to buy $14 tags for. Each River WMA tag is good for 2 antlerless whitetails.
However, I can remember the last time that I had to shoot a deer twice, that was in 2017. My first shot hit it in the empty space just below the spine and above the lungs, stunned it. I though that it was DRT, but I noticed that it got up and staggered off while I was field dressing one of the other deer that I had shot that morning. The bad part was that it staggered into 20' deep creek bed and I had to field dress it in the creek and cut it in half to recover it. I shoot deer because it provides me with an opportunity for me to try different rifles, cartridges, and loads. I give most of the deer that I shoot to Hunters Helping the Hungry.
Kinda cool they're 8.5 twist on the 7-08's though.
Nice, my only gripe is these rifles (first gen RAR) feed like schidt. They shoot well though. Have they done anything about how they feed? If not, I'm not buying. I'll let my buddies buy them and I get to test the accuracy out on them.
I have done a few conversions to the AR type mags well I guess that's not true anything I've got with ar type mags came with ar type mags. and they all do fine for me. and I've converted a few including 22-250 to the AI type magazine and bought a Magpul version for creedmoor and they would feed with four in the magazine but not with five. but now I believe it's MDT has came out with a specialty mag for 22-250.. and it's like some of the other MDT mags of a kind of a specialty in the AI style kind of like for a Grendel or 6ARC they're kind of pricey about 80 bucks a piece but I have great faith in them working well..
bought some 223 Polymer AR Mags over at Sportsman's Warehouse, 10 capacity, to try on my Ruger Predator in 6.5 Grendel. they feed just fine thru them, and a lot better than the metal factory mag that came with the rifle.
I don't need any more rifles in life, as I am starting to age out.... however I can see a 6.5 Grendel in my future and maybe even a 22 or 6mm ARC. if nothing else to play with over at the range for practice and testing from 300 to 500 yd shots.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I dislike the extended magazine, so can’t see myself wanting one. I have an old Weather Warrior in 30-06 which is one of my most accurate rifles. I suspect this new savage offering will be sufficiently accurate for any hunting situation.
I picked up a Gen 2 7mm08 today. Hopefully shoot it tomorrow
TLB, can you give us an honest review of the rifle after shooting it? Thanks. I'm sure a few of my buddies will probably be buying these. These guys generally like just about anything that is low dollar/budget rifle so to speak.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I never fail to find humor in how many people whine about the looks of rifle, without even shooting it. A rifle is a tool and if it functions correctly, it is good to go. I have never found them to be ugly, anyway. Mine shoots lights out, balances well and does everything expected of it in a durable set up.
I will take an inexpensive rifle that shoots any day, over a pretty wall hanger. If you want to ogle over a wall hanging, buy a painting.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
I handled one yesterday. The stock reminds me very much of the Bergara, and I don't read a lot of negativity of those on here. Who knows, these new Gen 2's might turn out to be like the ugly chick with the perfect a$$.
History repeats itself because it worked. If it didn’t work in the first place, it wouldn’t be history but another lost story of insignificance.
The stock is no ooglier than a bunch of current rifles. The magazines offered are the deal-killers for me, for a hunting rifle anyway. That release hangs down way too much. The ones using AR mags are worse, though the release is better. I like my rifles trimmer, which is why I went for aftermarket setups on my Howa Minis.
Yeah, unless by chance something is off with the new model and keeps the old one more desirable. Looks like no LH models, unless they keep the Gen1 Predator
My Mag fits tight so has to be pulled out . Release has a fairly stiff spring. Way better than the Howa mini's.
not 100% sure which magazine type you're talking about. but on the mini howa I had one of them several years ago now in a 223 and the one thing I hated about it you could easily bump the magazine release if it was long over your back and lose that proprietary magazine and they weren't real cheap one of the biggest reasons mine went down the road. and the fact that did not like the little bitty freaking bolt handle
call my American AR and AI type magazines you have to push a little lever right in front of the trigger guard just forward and I've never had any issues of accidentally releasing the magazine
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Last edited by Magnum_Bob; 12/25/23.
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Why would Ruger have a QC department when they have customers that do the QC work for them?
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Unfortunately, that sort of thing happens all the time these days, and not just with Rugers. I watch a bunch of reviews, every day, and it’s amazing how often guns sent out by the manufactures simply fail right out of the box. Sometimes they need a break-in, but others simply don’t work, and a couple recently still didn’t work after a ride home for repair. As troublesome as it is for consumers to ship firearms back these days, it’s really irksome how little care is often taken to get things right. It is a good argument for buying from a dealer rather than web-shopping for the absolute lowest price, provided one picks a good dealer of course. It’s also a good case for buying good quality guns of yore, when such problems were much rarer, almost unheard of IME.
Unfortunately, that sort of thing happens all the time these days, and not just with Rugers. I watch a bunch of reviews, every day, and it’s amazing how often guns sent out by the manufactures simply fail right out of the box. Sometimes they need a break-in, but others simply don’t work, and a couple recently still didn’t work after a ride home for repair. As troublesome as it is for consumers to ship firearms back these days, it’s really irksome how little care is often taken to get things right. It is a good argument for buying from a dealer rather than web-shopping for the absolute lowest price, provided one picks a good dealer of course. It’s also a good case for buying good quality guns of yore, when such problems were much rarer, almost unheard of IME.
You are right in that it's not just Ruger. Ruger is certainly well represented though. Reading around online, it's almost like Smith and Wesson and Colt unlearned how to make a good revolver. Tikka certainly seems to have it figured out.
I ordered a thread protector for my Gen 2 from Down Range Products. I dont like brakes except for bench shooting. Need to see how it shoots with the Silcerco Harvester also
The two S&W autos I bought last year run perfectly. Got one more on the way, tied up in a bankruptcy, but hopefully will arrive soon.
I think I have my PITA LCP2 .22 fixed, though it lost the empty-mag lock-back feature in the process. It came very close to becoming the Property of the Shenandoah River.
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Sounds like what happened with me and a Kimber Montana... would not even chamber any factory ammo...
The worst thing ever to happen to cops is the personal video recorder... Now people can see the truth
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Sounds like what happened with me and a Kimber Montana... would not even chamber any factory ammo...
I was one of those members, but Ruger did resolve it. Mine wouldn't chamber factory Hornady 108 but after the rebarrel it's fixed plus it's accurate as heck.
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Why would Ruger have a QC department when they have customers that do the QC work for them?
My buddy still has the 6.5 Creedmoor RAR predator with a bad chamber. It shoots, but the chamber is so rough that it screws up his brass. I told him to send it back, but he remembers when he sent in his RAR 223 for accuracy issues, and they gave him a ration of schidt. He says he'll probably never buy another RAR, and just stick to Savage because they have much better customer service.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Why would Ruger have a QC department when they have customers that do the QC work for them?
My buddy still has the 6.5 Creedmoor RAR predator with a bad chamber. It shoots, but the chamber is so rough that it screws up his brass. I told him to send it back, but he remembers when he sent in his RAR 223 for accuracy issues, and they gave him a ration of schidt. He says he'll probably never buy another RAR, and just stick to Savage because they have much better customer service.
The past two Hawkeyes that I bought would gouge the hell out of brass. The best customer service that Ruger could possibly provide would be to build guns that don't need problem resolution. That said, when I have needed problem resolution from Ruger in the past, they were very good.
A few years ago I bought a new Ruger RAR in 6mm Creedmoor. Wanted it for a antelope rifle. Had to send it back to Ruger for being short chambered. Just 1 dummy round run thru it would have shown them it was defective before it left the factory. No quality control what so ever. Got it back in a month rebarreled. At least 1 other fire member wasn't as lucky and had to wait multiple months for his to be fixed and sent back. What if I had actually needed that rifle to use for a hunt ? Ruger can go f u ck themselves. They don't have anything I need ever again...mb
Why would Ruger have a QC department when they have customers that do the QC work for them?
My buddy still has the 6.5 Creedmoor RAR predator with a bad chamber. It shoots, but the chamber is so rough that it screws up his brass. I told him to send it back, but he remembers when he sent in his RAR 223 for accuracy issues, and they gave him a ration of schidt. He says he'll probably never buy another RAR, and just stick to Savage because they have much better customer service.
The past two Hawkeyes that I bought would gouge the hell out of brass. The best customer service that Ruger could possibly provide would be to build guns that don't need problem resolution. That said, when I have needed problem resolution from Ruger in the past, they were very good.
This is just what I can relay from my buddy. He said they were too lippy, gave him a hard time about some defects the rifle had. When he deals with Savage, they have been very accommodating and cordial. Even going above and beyond, to make him happy. Now, that is the way customer service should be.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Some companies just have better quality control....Ruger along with others need attention. My Bergara would also gouge the hell out of the brass but that was the least of my issues including accuracy problems and my rifle arrived without the brass extractor in the bolt. Of course Bergara resolved the issues, replaced the barrel and installed the extractor. Rifle finally shot good 6 months later... unfortunately that rifle went down the road. My recent Bergara 280 ai is the premiere mountain with no issues. Production rifles are just that!
have spoke with three different shops all within a reasonable driving distance to me that got some of the Gen 2 rifles in and they were all sold from a few hours took a couple days they are now completely out of stock and got more ordered. tell us another pretty popular.. I'm sure we'll start seeing reviews on YouTube and what have you seen and some guys on here I'm sure we'll get some soon and get report to if they did good or not..
Picked up one in 556 today. First one store got in. Been wanting a bolt 556/223 and almost bought a used 1st gen a couple weeks ago. Glad i waited. 550 plus tax
Picked up one in 556 today. First one store got in. Been wanting a bolt 556/223 and almost bought a used 1st gen a couple weeks ago. Glad i waited. 550 plus tax
I’ve been looking at the Gen 1 556. What are your first impressions of the Gen 2? Shot it yet?
I suspect if you screw the supplied loudener to the left, it will come off. Granted, they could've made it an option and knocked off a few bucks.
I had about made my mind up to wait on a .22 ARC Howa Mini (w/a B&C M40), that said, the thought of the16" Ranch ARC with my suppressor on the end of it continues to intrigue. A bit discouraged over reports of the limp noodle stock, but still looking forward to seeing how they actually shoot.
The Ruger Gen II shoot and function well and are accurate, we have 4 of the 6.5 CM 20" barrel with Dead Air Suppressors, they are what they are an inexpensive rifle. Rio7
Looks like they're vibratory polishing the gen2 bolts in ceramic media, final finish.
He specifically said "non-zippy bolt". Good mercan terminology. These fkn window lickers have finally became self-aware, about how the shooting world perceives their disrespectful lack of final fit and finish!
Picked up one in 556 today. First one store got in. Been wanting a bolt 556/223 and almost bought a used 1st gen a couple weeks ago. Glad i waited. 550 plus tax
I’ve been looking at the Gen 1 556. What are your first impressions of the Gen 2? Shot it yet?
Stock not as bad in person as it looks online, barrel still a little off in channel but not as bad as the gen 1, definitely stiffer than the previous. Trigger was set at 6 1/2 from factory, lowest i could get it was 4lbs and its not consistent, may break at 4, next time at 4 1/2. hope to shoot it this weekend, literally just got done scoping it out.
Picked up one in 556 today. First one store got in. Been wanting a bolt 556/223 and almost bought a used 1st gen a couple weeks ago. Glad i waited. 550 plus tax
I’ve been looking at the Gen 1 556. What are your first impressions of the Gen 2? Shot it yet?
Stock not as bad in person as it looks online, barrel still a little off in channel but not as bad as the gen 1, definitely stiffer than the previous. Trigger was set at 6 1/2 from factory, lowest i could get it was 4lbs and its not consistent, may break at 4, next time at 4 1/2. hope to shoot it this weekend, literally just got done scoping it out.
Picked up one in 556 today. First one store got in. Been wanting a bolt 556/223 and almost bought a used 1st gen a couple weeks ago. Glad i waited. 550 plus tax
I’ve been looking at the Gen 1 556. What are your first impressions of the Gen 2? Shot it yet?
Stock not as bad in person as it looks online, barrel still a little off in channel but not as bad as the gen 1, definitely stiffer than the previous. Trigger was set at 6 1/2 from factory, lowest i could get it was 4lbs and its not consistent, may break at 4, next time at 4 1/2. hope to shoot it this weekend, literally just got done scoping it out.
about 10 minutes or less and a spring change or a little bit of a clip on a certain spring in there you can have about 2 to 2 and 1/2 lb trigger. I've done that to every one of mine works very well.
Don't cut the flat-seat off the spring. Work the existing spring until it's completely/tightly compressed a half dozen times, then reinstall.
I've done this to 6 ruger rifles, and so far, the triggers always break at a crisp, repeatable trigger weight. Depending on rifle, this is usually from 2-3 lbs. No money spent.
The Go-wild version came with the brake, but did not come with a thread protector. Customer service told me they did not carry a thread protector that would fit the 5/8x24 thread, had to buy one off of amazon.
The Go-wild version came with the brake, but did not come with a thread protector. Customer service told me they did not carry a thread protector that would fit the 5/8x24 thread, had to buy one off of amazon.
The Go-wild version came with the brake, but did not come with a thread protector. Customer service told me they did not carry a thread protector that would fit the 5/8x24 thread, had to buy one off of amazon.
now that's [bleep] bullshit on rugers part
It is indeed. What’s the odds that an aftermarket cap, from Bezos no less, will fit properly? Pretty much nil I expect. If all the Gen2s, regardless of chambering, come with a brake, that’s crap too. A .450, sure. A .223, nonsense, at least without a cap included.
I have five rifles now that came threaded, two with brakes, a .308 that also had a nice cap in the box and a 10/22 without. Others came with nice knurled thread protectors. A .22 mag upper has a flash hider, sexy, but probably a place holder for a can, but otherwise not necessary.
The Go-wild version came with the brake, but did not come with a thread protector. Customer service told me they did not carry a thread protector that would fit the 5/8x24 thread, had to buy one off of amazon.
I cut the muzzle brak on my gone wild, into a thread protector. Hardest 5 minutes of my life.
Muzzle brake on my 416 ruger, spent $40 to get it cut off, barrel recrowned. That was almost unbearable.
I’d like to see the Grendel take the mini-thirty mags like the 7.62x39 version. Not a fan of that long mag sticking out, but I’ll be tempted to get one for sure.
I've got a Ruger Predator in 6.5 Grendel. The factory metal mag was not feeding very well. At the range, a Marine Buddy tossed me a couple of his 223 polymer mags for his ARs he shoots competitively. They are 10 rounders. They feed ammo just fine in the Predator model.
Went over to Sportsman's Warehouse and bought 5 or 6 of them for $10 each. All feed fine, and even picked up one of the 30 round versions for $14.95 each. They feed just fine also. Each one of these feed much better than the metal mag that came from the factory.
These are 223 mags feeding a 6.5 Grendel Cartridge.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I’d like to see the Grendel take the mini-thirty mags like the 7.62x39 version. Not a fan of that long mag sticking out, but I’ll be tempted to get one for sure.
I've got a Ruger Predator in 6.5 Grendel. The factory metal mag was not feeding very well. At the range, a Marine Buddy tossed me a couple of his 223 polymer mags for his ARs he shoots competitively. They are 10 rounders. They feed ammo just fine in the Predator model.
Went over to Sportsman's Warehouse and bought 5 or 6 of them for $10 each. All feed fine, and even picked up one of the 30 round versions for $14.95 each. They feed just fine also. Each one of these feed much better than the metal mag that came from the factory.
These are 223 mags feeding a 6.5 Grendel Cartridge.
Gun magazine technology has only been around for a little over a century. It's a bit unrealistic to expect Ruger to be able to pull it off without a hitch.
Well Paul, since I posted, and you made a response, I've been reading the entire thread, here at 5 AM.
I can't believe how much members have flamed the newer version or the American Ruger, without even holding and shouldering one.
I originally bought one in 223 when they first came out. Rotary mag wouldn't feed worth a crap and in the long run Ruger sent me 6 others, that experienced the same problem. Gave the rifle to a campfire member friend down your way in Luzyanna, who tinkers with things. He took the mags apart, smoothed them over with a file and some sand paper and they work great for him. Told me I could have it back if I ever wanted it back... but a gift to a friend is a gift to a friend.
Later Bought the 6.5 Grendel Predator model. The mag here fed better than the rotary mags did on the 223, but still hung up quite a bit. The Marine Buddy that tossed me a couple of AR Polymer mags, to try and that solved the problem immediately. Buying them at SW for $10 a piece, vs $50 for another factory metal one, I bought half a dozen plus one of the 30 round ones. All work flawlessly.
Ruger just needs some better quality control in making or whoever makes the mags for them.
But contrary to campfire fashion on slamming a product no one has held in their hands, I went out, bought one, it shot fine and the aftermarket polymer mag for $10 each solved the problem. I've put a lot of rounds thru the Grendel, probably 1500 to 2000 or more. I've tested all sorts of loads from A to Z, and even with bullet weights up to 140 grainers thru it. Instead of bitchin' about how it looks, I just used it...It works just fine.
Bought a couple Savage Axxis 2s in 350 Legend. Didn't buy them for the cartridge, bought them for the action, because Walmart locally was cancelling carrying guns all over Oregon any more. $250 each, so I bought two. One put a 17 Fireball barrel on it, and the other a 6 x 45 barrel on it. Campfire folks complain about the looks on those also. I just put barrels on them from Douglas and they both also shoot lights out. Took a deer with a 6 x 45 this past October. Blasted some sage rats with the 17 Fireball this past spring.
I just took them out and used them as described instead of getting all hung up on "they don't look traditional". Darn things work like you expect a rifle to work and do so giving a high degree of accuracy, even at distances of 300 and 400 yards. There is a lot of beauty in just accuracy and consistent functionality.
I held my opinion of the rifles until I had put them in my hands and used them at the range and in the field. As opposed to looking at pictures and forming a negative opinion...and then blasting that all over the campfire forums. I'm sure most of the guys who base opinions on the look of the rifle from pictures, aren't all that good looking themselves when you see pictures of them.
Anyone I've ever met on the campfire, I've based my opinion on meeting them face to face, vs how they might look in a picture. Some of the best folks I've ever met in my life, have been off the campfire. Never really came with expectations of any of them, but only once or twice have I been disappointed.
Heck, I don't need a new rifle., but I am enjoying trying cartridges out, that I've never shot before ( all on the smaller side, instead of bigger magnum stuff).. do that by rebarreling stuff....
Pictures don't tell me anything I really need to know... holding it in my hands and going out and using it tell me what I need to know... some folks might call that maturity. This thread reminds me of people condemning something they've got zero experience with. That scenario is evidently a real problem with a lot of people... or is it just the campfire thread.
its hard to complain about some place, if you've never been there, ya know...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I handled one in a LGS yesterday & the finish of the stock is much better than the original version & it shoulders & feels good to point.
But the stock design is just not to my taste as I like pure classic stocks, period . No Monte Carlo's no humpbacks, no semi-target or semi-tactical either.
Not on my hunting rifles.
Ruger should implement the improvements of the new versions into the old line & it would be a much more attractive package for a low cost, decent rifle.
If I wanted a Ruger American, that rifle would stay in the store. For shooting it might fit someone's bill. If it's awkward to carry they are a no go for me, and that looks very awkward, mag hanging down, rail instead of basic mounts, and the bipod, are all turn offs! Everyone has their likes, so many will buy it ( it's got tbe tactical look). I do like tbe barrel.
If it's the tactical look most are looking for I know a nice gentleman they need to talk to. Fix 'em right up..
I had enuff.
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
You might want to suppress the ranch model. That's one loud bitchhh. I shot mine a few times at varmints on the ranch and didn't have ears in and I went back to town and ordered the dang can! I put a red dot on it and got some 10 round mags. Throw it up on the dash of the gator and use it for that. I'd buy one again. Sucker is accurate as it needs to be. Not a bad gun for 550.
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