AR Comp is an excellent powder & one of my favorites but for the last 3 years or so it's been very hard to get & now that it's pretty available again, at least for now, it's just crazy expensive.
I found it locally last week at $56 / lb.
But it's clean, accurate, meters well & gives good velocity & has good temp stability.
In today's powder mark market, TAC is a deal, but does not give top velocity & I have never done nor seen a temp stability test on it.
If Jordan Smith vouches for it being temp stable, it probably is.
Varget is an excellent powder, but it doesn't meter well at all & in a small case, that matters for high volume loading.
I use it for low volume when I am willing to trickle up to weight & for target loads or for testing where I want the best accuracy.
If I really wanted to use it in a small case for regular use I'd invest in an auto measuring feeder.
TAC has been very stable for me in the .223AI and .223 with 75s. And it gets pretty cold around here.
Haven't used TAC much with bullets much heavier than 60 grains in the .223, but my very first cold-weather test with it 20 years ago when it was first introduced resulted in the same velocities and avrage accuracy at 70 and zero Fahrenheit.
But that's not surprising, since it was originally developed as a temp-resistant military powder for the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO rounds.
It was also developed to result in minimal fouling, due to use in automatic rifles. Which it also does, if loaded to normal maximums. Have shot up to 500+ rounds without cleaning in some rifles, and group size didn't change.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Because of my good experiences with Staball 6.5 I started using Staball Match in .223 and 6mm ARC, and have been quite happy with the groups, velocities are good, but not as high as LVR. The testing that's out there seems to show that Staball Match has very good temp stability, especially for a ball powder. I have Staball HD in the lineup next to try in my 7PRC, hopefully it does as well as the other two.
“Generally, the expressions are used to say that the real worth, success, or effectiveness of something can only be determined by putting it to the test by trying or using it, appearances and promises aside—just as the best test of a pudding is to eat it.”
“The putting”’is correct.
The other saying is “the proof of the pudding is in eating it.”
I was discussing the proof being in the doing. Not in the eating.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
I'd be inclined to try that. I know CFE223 is pretty stable in the 308w, but in a 223, that may be a different story. StaBall 6.5 seems to be pretty consistent and stable, so I'd think StaBall Match would be similar. The only problem I've seen with StaBall is it burns kind of dirty. Compared to other powders.
Do you find it leaves hard powder fouling, or easily swabbed out dark residue from the copper fouling reduction agent?
what does that have to do with being temp insensitive ?
“Generally, the expressions are used to say that the real worth, success, or effectiveness of something can only be determined by putting it to the test by trying or using it, appearances and promises aside—just as the best test of a pudding is to eat it.”
“The putting”’is correct.
The other saying is “the proof of the pudding is in eating it.”
I was discussing the proof being in the doing. Not in the eating.
Must be an American thing as here it is 'pudding'.
AR Comp is an excellent powder & one of my favorites but for the last 3 years or so it's been very hard to get & now that it's pretty available again, at least for now, it's just crazy expensive.
I found it locally last week at $56 / lb.
But it's clean, accurate, meters well & gives good velocity & has good temp stability.
In today's powder mark market, TAC is a deal, but does not give top velocity & I have never done nor seen a temp stability test on it.
If Jordan Smith vouches for it being temp stable, it probably is.
Varget is an excellent powder, but it doesn't meter well at all & in a small case, that matters for high volume loading.
I use it for low volume when I am willing to trickle up to weight & for target loads or for testing where I want the best accuracy.
If I really wanted to use it in a small case for regular use I'd invest in an auto measuring feeder.
MM
I have seen AR Comp and due to a few of you, I wanted to grab some, but as MM mentioned, it's kinda pricey and LVR is still pretty reasonable.
TAC has been very stable for me in the .223AI and .223 with 75s. And it gets pretty cold around here.
TAC for me has been super stable in a somewhat compressed 358 win load from 30 to about 100 degrees F, maybe a 20 fps change across those temps, but loses/gains almost 1fps/degree from 50 to 100 degrees F when used in a not-quite full 9.3x62 case under a 250AB. It's definitely pretty poor case fill in the case of the 9.3.
I have found TAC to be very temperature stable. It's what I use in my competition service rifle ammo. Most loads are 77gr and 80gr SMK's, but I use it with 52's for 100 yard practice.
“Generally, the expressions are used to say that the real worth, success, or effectiveness of something can only be determined by putting it to the test by trying or using it, appearances and promises aside—just as the best test of a pudding is to eat it.”
“The putting”’is correct.
The other saying is “the proof of the pudding is in eating it.”
I was discussing the proof being in the doing. Not in the eating.
Must be an American thing as here it is 'pudding'.
I can't say about the American thing, but in the southern US it's 'puden'.
AR Comp is an excellent powder & one of my favorites but for the last 3 years or so it's been very hard to get & now that it's pretty available again, at least for now, it's just crazy expensive.
I found it locally last week at $56 / lb.
But it's clean, accurate, meters well & gives good velocity & has good temp stability.
In today's powder mark market, TAC is a deal, but does not give top velocity & I have never done nor seen a temp stability test on it.
If Jordan Smith vouches for it being temp stable, it probably is.
Varget is an excellent powder, but it doesn't meter well at all & in a small case, that matters for high volume loading.
I use it for low volume when I am willing to trickle up to weight & for target loads or for testing where I want the best accuracy.
If I really wanted to use it in a small case for regular use I'd invest in an auto measuring feeder.
MM
I have seen AR Comp and due to a few of you, I wanted to grab some, but as MM mentioned, it's kinda pricey and LVR is still pretty reasonable.
LVR is $36/pound here. I guess I should buy some more?
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
“Generally, the expressions are used to say that the real worth, success, or effectiveness of something can only be determined by putting it to the test by trying or using it, appearances and promises aside—just as the best test of a pudding is to eat it.”
“The putting”’is correct.
The other saying is “the proof of the pudding is in eating it.”
I was discussing the proof being in the doing. Not in the eating.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
And it doesn’t seem like getting good results or consistency is too hard when ball powders are loaded near their top end for a given cartridge.
Sometimes/most times it's good to use a magnum primer too. I was getting some slight hangfires the other day with CFE223 in my 22-250. Stopped using it, and went to AR Comp. Problems solved. I know that does not help with your 223, but figured I'd reiterate that, when using ball powders. I was using CCI200's in my 22-250, and probably should have been running CCI250's, but my brass was primed and that's what I used. It wasn't even really that cold that day either. Around 30 degrees.
I've had similar experience. 22-250 and H380 with CCI 200 - I was running 100-120 fps slower than multiple books on the same powder charge. I built up another load with CCI250 - and my velocity matched the published velocity and powder charge weight.
I tried some staball HD in a 300 win mag just by tossing a few rounds in the freezer and shooting them as fast as I could and I could tell little to no difference between the round that was room temp and the one that was in the freezer.
I've used TAC in the .308 with 150 grain bullets in very hot weather in Africa with no problems, so it seems to be quite temperature stable. It's somewhat faster burning than Varget though.
Reloder 15.5 is also quite temperature stable but is slightly slower burning than Varget. RL-15.5 is probably closer to Varget in burn rate than TAC.
I have found WW ball powders to be very sensitive to temperature changes. Especially going from cool to hot. I had an accurate load worked up with a WW ball powder in my 300 Win Mag. No signs of pressure and listed in reloading manuals. I took that load and rifle to the range. It was about 100 degrees Fahrenheit, maybe a little more. The first round no signs of pressure. The bolt was sticky on the third round. The fourth round, I had to take the rifle back to the shop and pound/pry the empty case out of the bolt. I walked to the target 100 yards away and back between shots to allow cooling and a consistent time between shots.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
Take this with a grain of salt, nothing was ever proven or tested, but back in the 80's Hodgdon was selling various mil surp ball powders for dirt cheap. All us High Power competitors were using it, the price was too good to ignore. We started getting failures to fire on the line...disastrous to rapid fire scores. Many competitors were using CCI primers, which had no goop...avoiding Federal primers which had goop but also a rep for slam fires. Well, just theory, but some pretty knowledgeable shooters opined that the super fine H380 and BLC-2 was getting down in the primer under the anvil, actually cushioning the firing pin strike. Enough of us believed it, that we started using Federals again which had a generous dollop of goop to keep powder from migrating between cup and anvil. Misfires did dramatically decrease after that...which kinda sorta lends some validity to the theory.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
