Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Does 30-40 Kragg safely fire in a .303 Brit?

Questions like this are for entertainment only. Surely no one takes them seriously! Then on the other hand, many do not function with normal brain wave activity.

Sometimes I think that when older military arms were sold off as surplus to US businesses, the civilian world did not actually understand what they were dealing with. That's not a criticism. European arms were not well known on this side of the Atlantic.

In addition to the longer throats and wear, those old Commission rifles could be fed commercial .323 bullets, at reduced velocities. One of the methods to make oversized bullets shoot and not generate overpressures is to use a longer throat. These reduced pressure factory loads were pretty much a US phenomenon. There was a difference between CIP and SAAMI pressure maximums. Probably still is.

A week or two back the fire had some bozo promoting using 308 in an 30-06 because he saw it on a You Tube video more of the same stupid reasoning

i have two of the sporterized Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag. i also have two more Krag actions sans bolt. the first rifle is a hand-me-down rifle that was my great grandfather's. Grandpappy, Dad, Uncle (all of them RIP) had the Krag at some point. it was given to me by my grandpappy. when i die, it will be giving to my oldest son. i load the (actual weight 173gr) 165gr Ranch Dog with H4198 that goes 1926fps. it is a deer killer and every one of the deer goes DRT. i have killed 12 - 13 deer, while my son has killed 6 - 7 deer.

i have enough brass that my kids' kids' kid will have it. my brass is old Remington, old Winchester, New Grafs and old 30 Army. i have done a Redfield 102 K no drill aperture sight. some reason, i had a hard time lining up my sights and the target/deer. it is not my fault the sights or target/deer are blurry... (i have prescription glasses now). besides, my original sights had a peep sight that you could flip up. i could not see the front sight let alone, the target. i also put the original sporterized stock on it. i still have the Bishop's stock that my grandpappy did back in late 1950 - early 1960's.

1st krag
[img]https://i.imgur.com/72PElHf.jpg?1[/img]

1st krag with "original" stock


1st Krag with redone stock




2nd krag needed some love


2nd Krag


2 Krag actions sans bolt

None of the FED/REM/WIN 8x57 170 grain factory loads have been loaded anywhere near the potential of the cartridge. IIRC, FED/REM/WIN 170 grain factory loads produce performance close to that of their 170 grain 30-30 factory loads.

Well, with lots of old guns out there in various states of repair, you’d see how the lawyers would react.

Can’t say I blame them.

DF

Just like Charlie Sisk said a while back.

The 8x57 is under appreciated.

Same/same for other European military cartridges like the 6.5x55 and 7x57, loaded light compared to Norma and RWS. I'm actually a little surprised that European companies load the 6.5x55 as hot as they do in consideration of the Norwegian Krags. I know that I load my Norwegian Krag light, but run my sporterized Sweds hotter than recommended.

Right there is the quintessential American deer rifle. It put a lot of meat on the table for the guys who simply couldn't afford a fancy-schmancy Winchester/Savage/Remington in the teens-30's. A Krag could be had for about $5 cash money versus a new factory rifle for 5-10 times that. Seriously important for a fella making a couple bucks a day with a wife and kids to feed. To "sporterize" a 30" barreled Infantry rifle all you needed was a hacksaw and a file, or spring a couple bucks more for a cavalry carbine and save yourself the bother. Some outfits specialized in cutting down Krag rifles to carbine length for resale, again for just a couple bucks. U.S. military surplus ammo was everywhere for about $10/1000, and life was good. Difference in performance from a .303 British? None so's you'd notice.

Today I mainly shoot Lyman #311284 220gr. cast bullets. At 2000fps they duplicate the old standard military and sporting load that garnered the Krag's reputation as good medicine for anything on four legs that needed to be eaten.

My Swede is an FN Mauser with a Shilen barrel. With good brass it’ll handle .270 pressure. With those ya bout gotta hand load.

DF

Off topic but...I just read a photocopy of an article in Harpers Magazine, dated back in the '50's, kind of a cameo piece on an arms dealer by the name of Sam Cummings, founder of Interarmco in Virginny. One example of his business acumen...he bought 500,000 Lee Enfields for as low as 28 cents apiece. He sold many of them at retail for 24.95. Now that my friends is a business model. Sam claimed in the article that he had enough small arms in his warehouses to equip 40 divisions.

That brings back memories. Hadn’t thought of him for years.

DF

I've been to Interarms a couple times, a loooong time ago. It was in No. Virginia about an hour from where I grew up. It was something to behold.

Legend had it that Cummings took it a step further with his Enfield deals and had them shipped in the bottom holds of freighters, consigned as ballast, which greatly slashed his shipping costs.

Civilian Marksmanship Program.

So far I haven't commented on this thread, because the original post (as others have pointed out) is ridiculous. Just because the .30-40's design was strongly influenced by the .303 doesn't mean .30-40s will chamber in .303 rifles.

While the rim's are basically the same diameter, the base of the .30-40s case is nominally. .4877" in diameter. The .303's is .4554. Aside from other factors such as bore diameter, it would require a REALLY oversize .303 chamber to accommodate a .30-40 round.

But the cases are similar enough that the "same" powder charges will work with the same bullet weights in both rounds. Have owned several rifles chambered for each, including a pair of Ruger No. 1s, and my favorite handload in each is around 48 grains of H4350 and a 180-grain bullet, which gets just about the same velocity and fine accuracy in both rounds. (This powder charge is over "maximum" in some manuals, but have never had any problem with it in stronger .30-40s, though tend to stop a little lower in Krags.)

There are some chamber adapters out there, originally to convert Garands to .308, but they have to be removed with, IIRC, a stuck-case remover, which might destroy them. There are other converters and inserts around too, though I’ve never tried one. I’ve been tempted by the .22 Hornet one for my .410, also the .22 one for my .44 Low Wall.


http://mcaceak.com/shotgun-inserts.html

Interesting thread, really like the Krags.
I sure wish my 6.5 Norwegian shot a decent group, I think the throat is shot out.

My only Norwegian 1912 had a great bore and throat, and grouped very well. (It had been "sporterized," but still had the issue military sights.)

You mean like, will a Remington LRP work for reloading a Winchester .30-30?

My dad used to tell of a pioneer neighbor that used 303 British ammo in a Winchester 1895 in 30 US. This was back in the depression and people used what they could scrounge. The 303 would appear to be about .060 too long to the shoulder but the rifle may have been worn. Also an inventive type could run the right size twist drill into the chamber. 30-40 ammo was never popular in Canada back then.