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The Indians had a reputation as being terrible shots with rifles unless at close range. So I've heard. The same can be said of our modern day population of: 1) hunters 2) LEO'S 3) military As always, there are exceptions, and those who train around it. A little adrenaline goes a long way. A lot of ammo doesn't always, which is why all of the above carry so much. Also, the area known as Sharpshooter Ridge at LBH was not named after anyone in the 7th Cav.
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Custer had if my memory serves me right around 40 men that were trained a sharpshooters under the command of Lt Cooke, they were pretty effective in other skirmishes and battles per Custer's book "My life on the Plains".
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I can’t recall the officer who was, on the retreat from Weir Point, whose horse kept backing away. The Indians were 20 yards away shooting at him, and his orderly was laughing! When he finally got mounted and had gotten a distance, he asked his orderly what was so damned funny. The orderly said he was laughing at the Indian’s lack of marksmanship!😀 Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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There's an excerpt from a W. M. Camp letter stating one of the two soldiers survived. Was this proven to be inaccurate? Peter Thompson would have a hard time to have been who was referred to as a soldier back near the Lone Teepee to survive some Indian encounter there. Peter Thompson and another soldier were down on the Little Bighorn River in view of Custer for a period of time and witnessed Custer above himself and not yet engaged with the Indians. Later Peter Thompson was involved with the transferring of water from the Little Bighorn River to the dehydrated soldiers atop the hill at the Reno/Benteen defensive site. Peter Thompson was awarded a Medal Of Honor for his bravery in that action at “water carriers ravine” This is where Water Carriers Ravine came to the Little Bighorn River, which is located south of the Reno/Benteen defensive site..
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The Indians had a reputation as being terrible shots with rifles unless at close range. So I've heard. The same can be said of our modern day population of: 1) hunters 2) LEO'S 3) military As always, there are exceptions, and those who train around it. A little adrenaline goes a long way. A lot of ammo doesn't always, which is why all of the above carry so much. Also, the area known as Sharpshooter Ridge at LBH was not named after anyone in the 7th Cav. As much as anybody, an Indian’s life and livelihood revolved around the competent use of weapons. Their childhood had been largely spent towards that end, why should we be surprised if they knew how to shoot? Especially when they had been using firearms for generations. ‘Nother example regularly cited by us Texas guys: Dove Creek, 1864, a camp of Kickapoos was attacked by a party of Frontier Militia and Confederate Cavalry. The Kickapoos repulsed the attack with their Enfield rifles AND ran off their horses. The attackers ended up walking home. ‘Nother example, 1860, Texas Ranger John Salmon Ford went into the Indian Territory with 100 Rangers and a like number of Tonkawas after Buffalo Hump’s Comanches. It was a Tonkawa who dismounted and shot the Comanche Iron jacket in his Spanish mail off of his running horse, said Tonkawa packing a Mississippi rifle in its original .54 cal round ball form.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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The Indians had a reputation as being terrible shots with rifles unless at close range. So I've heard. The same can be said of our modern day population of: 1) hunters 2) LEO'S 3) military As always, there are exceptions, and those who train around it. A little adrenaline goes a long way. A lot of ammo doesn't always, which is why all of the above carry so much. Also, the area known as Sharpshooter Ridge at LBH was not named after anyone in the 7th Cav. And that sharpshooter Indian was the exception to the rule. The soldiers put concentrated fire on him and eliminated him.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Were there any white men or half breeds in the Indian camp fighting for and with the Indians?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Did Custer have Gattling guns?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Did Custer have Gattling guns? No, and I believe the only advantage he would have gotten from them is that they would have slowed him down and made him a day or two later which would have been a good thing. But he would have had to share the glory of winning with the infantry.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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There's an excerpt from a W. M. Camp letter stating one of the two soldiers survived. Was this proven to be inaccurate? Peter Thompson would have a hard time to have been who was referred to as a soldier back near the Lone Teepee to survive some Indian encounter there. Peter Thompson and another soldier were down on the Little Bighorn River in view of Custer for a period of time and witnessed Custer above himself and not yet engaged with the Indians. Later Peter Thompson was involved with the transferring of water from the Little Bighorn River to the dehydrated soldiers atop the hill at the Reno/Benteen defensive site. Peter Thompson was awarded a Medal Of Honor for his bravery in that action at “water carriers ravine” This is where Water Carriers Ravine came to the Little Bighorn River, which is located south of the Reno/Benteen defensive site.. 19 MOH’s given.
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Did Custer have Gattling guns? I’ve read he left them behind because they were to heavy or something like that.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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…and then there were these guys, 189 Indians from backwoods Michigan who formed Company K of the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters, recruited because of their reputation for marksmanship skills. Deadly Aim: The Civil War Stories of Michigan’s Anisishinaabe Sharpshooters(AKA Chippewa I think)
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Did Custer have Gattling guns? I’ve read he left them behind because they were to heavy or something like that. I read somewhere that the way the Gatling guns had to be broken down and strapped up on the pack mules was a major problem and the mules had to be stopped often to rearrange/fix the strappings to keep the guns from falling off. Also, one of the videos posted mentioned that Custer made a cardinal sin by breaking up his forces. Actually, breaking up the command into different elements was and is a Cavalry tactic. It is how a commander develops the battle. When Custer told Reno that he would back him up, I would think the intent was that Custer would use follow on forces i.e. Benteen or McDougall to reinforce Reno if necessary.
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I didn't watch all the videos. But several years ago I saw a one hour program on tv, where there had been a fire at the Little Bighorn, and the ground was all cleared. A team of archaeologists went in with metal detectors. They didn't find many cartridge casings at Last Stand Hill, and so they declared that right there, Custer's men didn't put up much of a fight.
What the Phds overlooked, was one hundred years of souvenir hunting. When Terry's troops came in 3 days after the battle, and they saw the hill where Custer and Tom had been killed, you know some of those soldiers picked up cartridge casings for souvenirs.
There was another forum that I was on, a guy said that his dad and uncle went to Last Stand Hill, maybe in the twenties, and picked up a 5-gallon bucket of cartridge casings from Last Stand Hill and elsewhere on the battlefield.
These latter-day arechaeologists ignored a hundred years of souvenir hunting, therefore their conclusions are incorrect. . Good observation. We'll never know some details about the firefight at Last Stand Hill. If we can trust the Indian report that "the fight lasted about as long as it takes a man to eat a meal", then 20-30 minutes ?
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Last Stand Hill was where they found many fallen officers which in regular battle wouldn't make sense since the officers should have been killed next to their companies. After the battle as they started to piece things together they came to the conclusion that many of the recruits panicked and took off in every direction so it was easy for the Indians to massacre them, Officers then retreated to Custer and fell there with him.
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Indians were experts in archery but most couldn't shoot a rifle or pistol straight, I'm sure there were some good marksmen but those were few and far in between.
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Did Custer have Gattling guns? I’ve read he left them behind because they were to heavy or something like that. Yeah they didn't even take Sabers. They were traveling light and fast
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Indians were experts in archery but most couldn't shoot a rifle or pistol straight, I'm sure there were some good marksmen but those were few and far in between. Yes, there are always exceptions. But from what I read the Indian's favored method of bison hunting was to ride in close and shoot which is the way they learned with the bow and kept it up with the low power rifles they favored. When the white man took up buffalo hunting he shot from a distance with rifles such as the Sharps .50.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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There's an excerpt from a W. M. Camp letter stating one of the two soldiers survived. Was this proven to be inaccurate? Peter Thompson would have a hard time to have been who was referred to as a soldier back near the Lone Teepee to survive some Indian encounter there. Peter Thompson and another soldier were down on the Little Bighorn River in view of Custer for a period of time and witnessed Custer above himself and not yet engaged with the Indians. Later Peter Thompson was involved with the transferring of water from the Little Bighorn River to the dehydrated soldiers atop the hill at the Reno/Benteen defensive site. Peter Thompson was awarded a Medal Of Honor for his bravery in that action at “water carriers ravine” This is where Water Carriers Ravine came to the Little Bighorn River, which is located south of the Reno/Benteen defensive site.. Fremont Kipp's correspondence with W. M. Camp seemed to reach the same conclusion (excerpt of a transcript): yesterday I met a Patrick Brady who joined the Regiment at Peas Bottom Coming up on a Boat with 150 recrutes Capt Hale being in Charge of recrutes Brady remembers Thompson and Watson well, and say he always heard they were with the pack Train and never heard of any story of their being Seperated from the Same or from Reno after Pack
train Camp up to Reno Hill. Brady states that after the fight at diffirent places there was Eleven men left living and he thinks if Thompson story were true he would have heared of it. I am not sure if Brady said he joined us at Peas Bottom or at mouth of the Rosebud that being Some weeks after the fight Brady Statement is hearsay but Mechling and I think he is right. Mechling and I viseted W J Baily and there is no doubt in our mind he was just as he says Enlisted as a Indian Scout the same as other Indians were and was with Reno in the Bottom. When I repeated Thompson Statment to him about his Thompson being some 300 yards from Custer when he was killed and then trying to get in the village getting within 75 yds of nearest Teepes and to center of River when they were Discovered and driven back. Mr Baily became very mad saying Thompson was a G—D— liar that with all that
hord of mounted Indians it would not be possible for him and Watson to get away Mr Baily becoming so mad that Mrs Baily had to quiet the old man down Mechling and I beleive Thompson and Watson were with Pack Train and that he is lying when C Troop was going toward the Battle there must have been some officer Nom-Com-officer in the rear to prevent men from falling out as Thompson says they did a whole set of fours falling out near the lone Teepe and two men taking the back trail is unbelivable I think he wants to be Considered the last man that seen Custer alive.
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Fremont Kipp's correspondence with W. M. Camp seemed to reach the same conclusion (excerpt of a transcript):
yesterday I met a Patrick Brady who joined the Regiment at Peas Bottom Coming up on a Boat with 150 recrutes Capt Hale being in Charge of recrutes Brady remembers Thompson and Watson well, and say he always heard they were with the pack Train and never heard of any story of their being Seperated from the Same or from Reno after Pack
train Camp up to Reno Hill. Brady states that after the fight at diffirent places there was Eleven men left living and he thinks if Thompson story were true he would have heared of it. I am not sure if Brady said he joined us at Peas Bottom or at mouth of the Rosebud that being Some weeks after the fight Brady Statement is hearsay but Mechling and I think he is right. Mechling and I viseted W J Baily and there is no doubt in our mind he was just as he says Enlisted as a Indian Scout the same as other Indians were and was with Reno in the Bottom. When I repeated Thompson Statment to him about his Thompson being some 300 yards from Custer when he was killed and then trying to get in the village getting within 75 yds of nearest Teepes and to center of River when they were Discovered and driven back. Mr Baily became very mad saying Thompson was a G—D— liar that with all that
hord of mounted Indians it would not be possible for him and Watson to get away Mr Baily becoming so mad that Mrs Baily had to quiet the old man down Mechling and I beleive Thompson and Watson were with Pack Train and that he is lying when C Troop was going toward the Battle there must have been some officer Nom-Com-officer in the rear to prevent men from falling out as Thompson says they did a whole set of fours falling out near the lone Teepe and two men taking the back trail is unbelivable I think he wants to be Considered the last man that seen Custer alive. I find it quite interesting, the various accounts of what happened by the actual participants of the battle. I questioned Steve Adelson (battlefield historian) about Thompson’s testimony of seeing Custer on the hill above himself and not engaging the Indians for a time of almost 20 minutes. Steve called Thompson a liar and said that Custer would not wait any period of time before attacking the village. My thoughts were that if Thompson’s account was true, Custer may have paused, waiting for Benteen and reinforcements…
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