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One of the easiest things a reloader can do is weigh charges to the 10th of a grain. I weigh all my hunting and target powder before it goes into the case. Any higher volume shooting I just use a RCBS Uniflow, I slap the handle down to dispense the powder and slap it back up to recharge.


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Originally Posted by mathman
If a load is well developed, then a number of other ducks need to be in a row before +/- a tenth means much at all.
You got that right. Only powder I have ever trickled is 4831. Everything else comes out of the Uniflow close enough for hunting loads (of course if you are shooting BR or similar, it might make a provable difference but in that case 4831 is not your huckleberry).


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Originally Posted by mathman
I know the comment was about seeing it on the scale. My question was about the relevance of that as it applies to the target.

The statement was just concerning the sensitivity of the scale and trickling, nothing more, nothing less.

Since you've obviously got an opinion that you're chomping at the bit to expound, by all means burn up some bandwith....


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Originally Posted by Blacktailer
Originally Posted by mathman
If a load is well developed, then a number of other ducks need to be in a row before +/- a tenth means much at all.
You got that right. Only powder I have ever trickled is 4831. Everything else comes out of the Uniflow close enough for hunting loads (of course if you are shooting BR or similar, it might make a provable difference but in that case 4831 is not your huckleberry).


Went to a quite a few group shoots in the mid to late 90’s and had more than one BR shooter when asked about charge weight they didnt know. Had one that I thought was kidding state I fill it to the top with N133, scrape it level with a pop sickle stick then place a 68 grain bullet on top. 🤔
Seems most loaded by volume and didnt give a hoot about weight.



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Originally Posted by Blacktailer
Originally Posted by mathman
If a load is well developed, then a number of other ducks need to be in a row before +/- a tenth means much at all.
You got that right. Only powder I have ever trickled is 4831. Everything else comes out of the Uniflow close enough for hunting loads (of course if you are shooting BR or similar, it might make a provable difference but in that case 4831 is not your huckleberry).

It all really comes down to task/purpose and intended distance..


Normal benchrest 100-200yds probably isn't the best indicator for thrown VS weighed and the precision cause the effect of higher ES and SDs aren't really kicking in yet and from what I've seen a lot of those guys use thrown charges. F-Class might be a better indicator. Here's a survey conducted of PRS shooters in 2015 that delves in reloading and a little bit on weighing charges. IAW this 49% (the majority) of the top shooters were using high end scales :

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/12/31/reloading-tips-from-top-precision-rifle-shooters/

Quote
There were slightly more of these top shooters used a high-end, $500+ scale like the Prometheus or pharmaceutical-grade scales like those from Sartorius and others. One interesting note is that the shooters who placed in the top 4 were all using one of these really high-end scales. Beyond that, the distribution seen in the graph above was virtually identical through the entire group of the top 100 PRS shooters regardless of rank.

Prometheus Gen II Powder Measure The $500+ scales are typically capable of resolution and accuracy down to a single kernel of powder, or even better! Not one grain … one kernel. A single kernel of Hodgdon H4350 gun powder (which 73% of these guys use) weighs between 0.02 and 0.03 grains. 0.02 grains = 1.3 milligrams. So if you purchase a milligram scale, you should be able to weigh down to the nearest kernel. I’ve heard rumors of guys in other shooting disciplines slicing powder kernels to get even finer increments. I’d be shocked if any of these practical/tactical shooters are going to that extent, but there is always a handful of people that take everything to the extreme. If you’re reading this (or writing it), you’re probably that guy at times!

So apparently, at least in 2015, some top shooters are using expensive equipment cabale of more accuracy in their powder weighing for no apparent reason...


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I may be wrong, but what I've read is the competitive shooters use their scale to develop a load, then set a measure to deliver the volume that corresponds to the desired weight at the time the load was developed. Till they get a new lot of powder, they don't mess with that measure setting. Humidity changes affect powder density, but not the amount of fuel in a measured volume of a given lot of powder. Again, this is based on reading, and if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected.

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Originally Posted by Chuck_R
Originally Posted by mathman
I know the comment was about seeing it on the scale. My question was about the relevance of that as it applies to the target.

The statement was just concerning the sensitivity of the scale and trickling, nothing more, nothing less.

Since you've obviously got an opinion that you're chomping at the bit to expound, by all means burn up some bandwith....


For all I know you're an F-Class High Master and you can prove the difference at 1000 yards.

My opinion is that a large percentage of handloaders spend a lot of time weighing powders to fractional gnat's ass increments to no real benefit in their application. If it makes them feel better about what they're doing that's perfectly OK.

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Originally Posted by mathman
For all I know you're an F-Class High Master and you can prove the difference at 1000 yards.

My opinion is that a large percentage of handloaders spend a lot of time weighing powders to fractional gnat's ass increments to no real benefit in their application. If it makes them feel better about what they're doing that's perfectly OK.


Yep.


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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by Chuck_R
Originally Posted by mathman
I know the comment was about seeing it on the scale. My question was about the relevance of that as it applies to the target.

The statement was just concerning the sensitivity of the scale and trickling, nothing more, nothing less.

Since you've obviously got an opinion that you're chomping at the bit to expound, by all means burn up some bandwith....


For all I know you're an F-Class High Master and you can prove the difference at 1000 yards.

My opinion is that a large percentage of handloaders spend a lot of time weighing powders to fractional gnat's ass increments to no real benefit in their application. If it makes them feel better about what they're doing that's perfectly OK.


Nope, did compete at 800-900-1000 and was a master class silhouette shooter. I've got far more worries than .1 grains in powder, but the time spent in addition to get there is minimal.

And I agree, the task/purpose defines the requirements. I did find it interesting that guys that are competing and doing well are spending the money on scales/dispensers that can weigh to that level though.


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Originally Posted by LeonHitchcox
The best way is to be consistent from drop to drop with whichever method one chooses. My preference is to raise the handle smoothly and wait for a moment for the powder to settle. Then use a smooth stroke to finish. A baffle helps keep the pressure consistent from drop to drop.
Agree Strongly.

My wife bought a Midway micrometer powder measure a very, very long time ago. I find it more consistent with large charges of stick powders than my more recently purchased Uni-Flow. On the other hand, the Uni-Flow with the small cylinder is more precise with lighter charges of pistol powders.

As per technique, consistency is paramount. The charge handle naturally comes to rest at the bottom of the stroke, between cartridges. I raise the handle smoothly to fill the hopper, then also smoothly lower it. If I feel the crunch of powder granules as the rotor comes down, experience has shown that charge will likely be off by a grain or more, so I discard that charge.

Most importantly, after the hopper is empty, I lift it halfway to the top again and drop it firmly, every time. This does two things. First, it dislodges any bridges below the rotor. Second, it helps to uniform the mass of powder above the rotor prior to the next charge.

Probably more important with stick powders than ball or flake. But I have developed the habit with any powder.


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Originally Posted by Feral_American
What does the factory RCBS uniflow baffle even look like?

I made my baffle out of the side of a metal IMR4831 can. I cut a piece out, bent it at not quite 45 degrees, cut it to fit down in the hopper and reasonably fit all around the circumference, then cut an adequate "V" notch out of one side of it. It rests at the bottom of the hopper. Other than stick powder catching and cutting every once in a while I've never had any unacceptable high or low. It's extremely accurate with ball powder and within a couple or three tenths with stick powder....which I throw light and dribble up anyway. I never fill the hopper up all the way unless I'm doing a big run because I hate unloading any unused powder. Mine's mounted to a stand and not convenient to take off and dump, so I twist the micrometer all the way out and run it through the measure back into the jug. I only fill what I think I'll need. So my baffle works fine no matter how full it is.
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Originally Posted by shaman
One thing I find interesting is the number of fellow tricklers responding. I've been here at the 'Fire for over 20 years, and I can say that the early campers thought a trickler was the most useless piece of kit ever devised.

Guilty as charged.

I have been loading since 1978. I still do not own a trickler. I do own a small plastic food storage bowl, and a plastic spoon. Sometimes it is faster to load fifteen or twenty rounds out of the bowl with the spoon than to set up the measure.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
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Free.

And from what I read here apparently works better than the commercial ones.

I'm thinking the steep angle and big notches lets too much powder into the bottom and really isn't doing the job it was intended to do.


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This has been an interesting thread.

One of my questions still remains: What was I doing wrong? The Uniflow is one of the standard bits of reloading kit. As soon as I started to see problems, I added the baffle. Still, for about 10 years, I kept having problems with that fairly constant positive drift in charge weights. For a good long while, cranking it down a little every 5-10 rounds seemed to be the only solution. At some point, my MIL died and I found a 115 volt personal vibrator in with her effects. I started using it to massage the column of powder a little. That didn't work either.


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Could your adjustment stem be working loose? Do you tighten it to a faretheewell? I had a measure long ago that behaved like that so I cranked it tight with pliers and then it was ok. PIA to adjust like that so I kicked it down the road.


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I used the Uniflow measure for a lot of years. That’s what I learned on. I never used it to get exact measurements because I always saw it as crude even back then. I always tapped a few times against the stops each time and tried to throw a tenth less and trickle the rest. Most of our reloading was rifles and most were extruded powder. The ball powders, we accepted when we dialed the flow out. We would still weigh those at random to make sure we’re still good. Now I use a few electric dispensers instead of the Uniflow and like the consistency they give with any type of powder.

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Originally Posted by shaman
This has been an interesting thread.

One of my questions still remains: What was I doing wrong? The Uniflow is one of the standard bits of reloading kit. As soon as I started to see problems, I added the baffle. Still, for about 10 years, I kept having problems with that fairly constant positive drift in charge weights. For a good long while, cranking it down a little every 5-10 rounds seemed to be the only solution. At some point, my MIL died and I found a 115 volt personal vibrator in with her effects. I started using it to massage the column of powder a little. That didn't work either.

Baffle height in the column can be adjusted for better overall performance. Notice where I have the baffle compared to the other 2.

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Originally Posted by shaman
This has been an interesting thread.

One of my questions still remains: What was I doing wrong? The Uniflow is one of the standard bits of reloading kit. As soon as I started to see problems, I added the baffle. Still, for about 10 years, I kept having problems with that fairly constant positive drift in charge weights. For a good long while, cranking it down a little every 5-10 rounds seemed to be the only solution. At some point, my MIL died and I found a 115 volt personal vibrator in with her effects. I started using it to massage the column of powder a little. That didn't work either.


How many charge throws are you doing before you start weighing to adjust the measure?

After the measure is adjusted, does the positive drift start right away?

It seems like there has to be a point at which the increase levels off. You can settle a powder column and fill the drum only so much.


The last time I used my Redding BR-30 I was dispensing IMR 4895 for a 308 Winchester target load. The measure was already set to the charge from a previous loading session. When I filled the hopper I threw twenty dummy charges before I weighed one to recheck the setting. It was still right on, and as I threw and weighed the charges there was no drift upward.

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i use Redding BR-30 power measures with the steel turkey neck piece mounted under the powder measure always ,i volume load as does factory ammo companies. my family and friends worked at a ammo factory in ballistics ,engineering and ammo testing and all agreed powder can not be weighed accurately and volume loading is generally much more accurate with many powders . i myself have tried to see what was more accurate with different cartridges with bench rest rifles and volume loading always shot the better groups . while shooting competition bench 100- 200 yards . when loading at these matches between sets ,i never ever seen a powder measure scale when anyone was reloading , but most cleaned their rifles to much i thought.


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
spray graphite the drum and body once a year, and I tap against the stop both directions, and I maintain a fairly uniform column of powder in the hopper...always above the top baffle.

This^^^^^

I use 2 light taps at the top & bottom, always keep the powder level an inch or so above the baffle.

Make sure the lock on the adjustment rod stays tight.

And a Redding 3BR is much more consistent that the Uniflow that I had..........hands down, & the Redding does with one powder cylinder, what the Uniflow couldn't do with 2.

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