Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Bullets for longer range work in .223/5.56

The heavier for cal bullet's especially in something like a 223 do have a place I think. Heavier for caliber slows down the bullet helping maintain it's ability and heavier at any velocity helps increase penetration. Lighter bullet's at higher velocity will tend to shed weight reducing the penetration and increasing damage. I think if your sure you want to use something like a 223 to hunt with then you should consider getting a custom barrel with a fast twist. I've never tried anything heavier than 55gr in a 22 of any make. But I'm certain a 77 gr bullet is gonna work better in say a 223 for no other reason than a heavier bullet at lower velocity is going to hold together better and penetrate better giving you more options for shot placement!

People seem to over look and many over think, what the bullet actually does. They go lighter to increase velocity thinking increased velocity kills, and heavier to shoot farther with a better BC. My truth is the value of the bullet is it is the most important part of killing, only the bullet can kill! Choose the bullet wisely!

I believe even a 22 RF will kill very well most animals in North America but, make that BUT, it must be placed right to do its job and the shooter must be willing to get close enough to make the shot needed! That said even though I say that it would not be my choice to use any 22 cal for any big game. I don't often even recommend a 243 for even deer. A 25cal gives a better selection of bullet's and a 6.5 even better without going to heavy into recoil! But I have killed a few deer with the 243 and all with one shot but felt it necessary to get close enough to shoot for the shot placement I knew would take the deer right down. You may have a very accurate 243 but shooting a small group at longer range and field position is much harder than shooting a 1" group at 100yds and a bench rest! I have never seem anyone shoot a 1" group at even 200 yds even from a bench rest! So the range of the shot is going to make a difference in how well you place the bullet.

I agree with you 100 percent, buffy.

Ok?
So you touched an animal with a couple of bullets that you don’t remember the specifics on, at an unknown range, but didn’t recover him? That makes it the cartridges fault? Or the bullets?
I’m just not clear on your point.


Also not clear on your assessment on scenarshooter either. You state that he/they were proud of the stuff they killed with 22cf’s - from the pics I’ve seen here of Pat’s critters, he could be proud of them even if he’d shot them with a Barret 50. He’s killed some BIG stuff.
Wouldn’t it stand to reason that killing something and being able to hold it in your hands would be more satisfying that shooting and losing it and then keeping it quiet if you were using something that didn’t work? Wouldn’t it make sense to change up your equipment so you didn’t lose more critters if it didn’t work?

I chose my words carefully. Putting the expanded bullet in the right place means that it gets put in the vitals, not splashing on the hide or humerus without penetrating to the vitals.

You're assuming that they did lose critters shot with those rifles?

After using a variety of cartridges and bullets on game over the years, came to that same conclusion and I've mentioned it to others "Put a good bullet where it belongs, and go notch your tag."

Smallest I've shot deer with was a 55 gr soft point from a 223. Largest bullets have been either the 405 gr Rem soft point from my 45-70 or the 385 gr 50 cal "Great Plains" bullet from my traditional muzzle loader. In between were 6mm's, 25's, 7's and 30's. Use 'em well, they work.

Regards, Guy

Same camp as Guy. I love to use them all, but good bullets seem to make them all work pretty well.

Jordan;
Top of the morning my friend, I hope that you and your fine family are well on this first weekend of February.

One of the reasons I've long respected what you post about is that, in my experience, you absolutely do make a practice of choosing your words carefully.

Sincere kudos for that by the way.

To be clear, I have zero experience with anything bigger than a coyote with a .223" bullet and don't really do much long range shooting for game, but that's a personal choice and I respect others who choose otherwise.

That said, in over 35 years of processing our own game plus helping family and friends process theirs, so somewhere north of 175 deer mostly but a few sheep, black bear and moose thrown in, I too have formed similar opinions about projectile energy.

Two key things brought that about for me, the first was how well a broadhead worked, that is to say how much tissue damage it did with basically no "energy" to speak of.

Secondly was that similarly constructed bullets, of similar diameter and construction, created noticeably more tissue damage with more bullet rpm, even if the initial velocity was slower.

I did a thread on that way back in the day and emphatically not everyone agreed with my findings, but that's perfectly acceptable too Jordan.

But humoring me for a moment, while I'm sure you can come up with a mathematical formula to calculate how rpm affects projectile performance, we went off of broken bones, tissue damage and the reaction of the buck when said bullet landed.

Anyways as always sir, there's many pack trails to Mecca and this is merely where I'm at on my journey.

All the best to you all.

Dwayne

What are people's thoughts on the 69 Scenar at .223 Rem velocities? Out to 500ish yards on deer sized critters?
After a few bad experiences with the 62 TSX I got some scenars but haven't played with them yet.

Ted, you really should try the 77 TMKs, At least grab a box of 100. I’m sure Scenars are good but I know the 77 TMKs will work.

Thanks, Dwayne. We are all good over here. I hope you and yours are all well.

I've seen the same thing with increased rotational speed causing more tissue damage. Expansion and sufficient penetration seem to do the trick, regardless (within reason) of other factors.

Have a great weekend!

👍

I’ll keep my eye out for some.
They seem a bit heavy/long for my Kimber’s 1/9 twist but I’ll give them a go if I find any.

Thx!

75 eldm and amax are killers. Seen 4 kills with the 75 eldm (bucks) this fall and it was impressive.

The Hornie 75gr HPBT is King there. Hint.

As RPM is added,the 75 ELD M is easy to love and the 88 ELD is bested by only the 90gr Beer Can. Hint……..

Holy hell, I have some 75 HPBT sitting around. I forgot about them and just dug them out. I'll load those up with the Scenars once I get a chance.

Calvin, right next to those HPBTs I also had a mostly full box of 75 AMAX that I'll send your way if you'd like. I could never get them to be real accurate in my Kimber at .223 speeds. I love the AMAX but they just weren't jiiving with this rifle.

Did you see much difference between the Amax and the ELD m as far as wound channels and penetration go? What twist were they spun from?

Just curious.

4 kills with the 75 ELD here as well this past fall. 2 coyotes, a doe and a buck. Only got an exit on one very small coyote, but only the buck ran off 20 yards or so. The doe was an unexpected shot at about 15 yards, and she dang neer cut a backflip upon impact. That being said, I'm dubious about using it again next year. Maybe I'll test it some more on hogs, if I can stop blasting them with 00.

Edit: I'm very curious about the 75 Scirocco. Any experience with those from the group?

Let me correct my statement a bit. I killed two with the 22CM, 75eldm. They worked fine. Was with the ‘horn a week later and he killed 2 with the 75 amax and 22CM. Worked fine. Didn’t really see any difference with that small sample.

As the ‘horn had told me, the 75s kill faster than about anything with bucks. It crushes them from what I witnessed and they pretty much go down with lung shots. I will do my alpine season next year with 22CM/75s and probably take it goat hunting too.

Thanks. I am using the Eldm bullets but I appreciate the offer.

The A-Max/ELD M are same/same as terminal effects go,but the ELD M is slicker and arrives the scene with higher impact velocity,while slipping atmospherics better. Win/win. Hint.

Given a choice,I prefer the 88 ELD M over everything,as they dig even deeper. Hint.

I don't care for the 75 Scirroco 1 or 2 and prefer the 'Max/ELD M there. Hint.

7" RPM in 223 SALAMI is a nice place to be for 88's. I shoot same in 8" RPM Speedmires,less issue. 9" in 22-250AI or Speedmire will handle 75 'Max/ELD M's. 9" in 223 SALAMI,is strictly 75gr Hornie HPBT Country,especially in Winter. Hint.

I LOVE 75's,but the 88 is fhuqking KING. Hint...............