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Joined: May 2023
Posts: 836
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 836 |
I know two folks that have a 90 deer per annum state of Florida agricultural predation permit, beteeen them, for peanut fields here in NW FL. They use fast twist barreled 223 Rem 700s with 80 SMKs and VN powder to 800 yards. They have built two heavy wood picnic tables that are setup with sand bags, spotting scopes and 32x scopes with repetitive windage and elevation adjustments. They also use range cards nailed to stakes set at 50 yard increments on both sides of the fields with wind ribbons and laser range finders. The 80 SMK at 800 yards wii, according to the two shooters, penetrate end to end on a WT deer. They are not sport shooters at all. And under FL law all predation animals must be tagged immediately then turned in to specific receiving points, for distribution as meat for state food banks, predation game animals can not be kept by the permit holders. Now small predation permitted areas anre allowed for shooters to keep some animals, on recent changes.
This shooting deer with a 223 and heavy bullets is in line with the subject. Only noted for information.
“To expect defeat is nine-tenths of defeat itself. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is best to plan for all eventualities then believe in success, and only cross the failure bridge if you come to it." Francis Marion - The Swamp Fox
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
The 80 SMK is a Goat Fhuqk. Hint……….
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
Let me correct my statement a bit. I killed two with the 22CM, 75eldm. They worked fine. Was with the ‘horn a week later and he killed 2 with the 75 amax and 22CM. Worked fine. Didn’t really see any difference with that small sample.
As the ‘horn had told me, the 75s kill faster than about anything with bucks. It crushes them from what I witnessed and they pretty much go down with lung shots. I will do my alpine season next year with 22CM/75s and probably take it goat hunting too. Yeah, I was just curious. I’m a couple dozen deer/bears deep with 75 Amax’s ala 223AI, and have a “few” on hand to tide me over. Haven’t shot anything with them in a twist faster than 1:9 though. Or faster than 2900 and change.
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
The A-Max/ELD M are same/same as terminal effects go,but the ELD M is slicker and arrives the scene with higher impact velocity,while slipping atmospherics better. Win/win. Hint.
Given a choice,I prefer the 88 ELD M over everything,as they dig even deeper. Hint.
I don't care for the 75 Scirroco 1 or 2 and prefer the 'Max/ELD M there. Hint.
7" RPM in 223 SALAMI is a nice place to be for 88's. I shoot same in 8" RPM Speedmires,less issue. 9" in 22-250AI or Speedmire will handle 75 'Max/ELD M's. 9" in 223 SALAMI,is strictly 75gr Hornie HPBT Country,especially in Winter. Hint.
I LOVE 75's,but the 88 is fhuqking KING. Hint............... Preaching to the choir here… The three 223AI’s built in the last 18 months (2 Faux Ti’s and a rebarrel on my Montana) are all twisted 1:7. I’m only 2 moose and a good bear deep so far, and a buddy smashed a good muley at distance with 88’s. Zero complaints on terminal performance and bone breaking abilities. Almost wondering if I neeeeed a 22 Creed though….
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
It's counterintuitive to some,how "less",really is MORE. The 223/88 melding is simply fhuqking sensational,because one can't drive it fast enough,to get into trouble up close on Big Critters and less than ideal angles. They dig nicely and reliably. hint.
As impact velocities increase,there are diminishing returns in those regards. I think I have (7) Speedmires now and LOVE everything about them,but they are tougher on cup/cores,than chamberings of less case capacity. The 88 is my default in most of them,though I've a couple set up expressly for 90gr Beer Cans. I have them in 7,7.5 and 8",all of which 88. Hint.
I've shot jaziliions of 75 'Max/ELD's in 7,7.5.7.7,8 and 9",via 22-250AI's and Speedmires,with 3500fps being the typical ceiling. No doubt they hammer schit,but I find 88's even warmer/fuzzier,which THE highest of praise. Hint.
A recent 7" Montucky Speedmire has jumped to a FAVORITE and will be tough to leave setting idle. If I can make a Nightfarce 2.5-10x track/repeat and hold zero,it'll get the call. Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,899 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,899 Likes: 1 |
Almost wondering if I neeeeed a 22 Creed though…. I think you do.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,213
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,213 |
What are people's thoughts on the 69 Scenar at .223 Rem velocities? Out to 500ish yards on deer sized critters? After a few bad experiences with the 62 TSX I got some scenars but haven't played with them yet. Ted, you really should try the 77 TMKs, At least grab a box of 100. I’m sure Scenars are good but I know the 77 TMKs will work. 👍 I’ll keep my eye out for some. They seem a bit heavy/long for my Kimber’s 1/9 twist but I’ll give them a go if I find any. Thx! The 77TMKs shoot well in my Montana (sub MOA) but I’ve only shot them to 100 yards. They’re worth a try.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,213
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,213 |
The A-Max/ELD M are same/same as terminal effects go,but the ELD M is slicker and arrives the scene with higher impact velocity,while slipping atmospherics better. Win/win. Hint.
Given a choice,I prefer the 88 ELD M over everything,as they dig even deeper. Hint.
I don't care for the 75 Scirroco 1 or 2 and prefer the 'Max/ELD M there. Hint.
7" RPM in 223 SALAMI is a nice place to be for 88's. I shoot same in 8" RPM Speedmires,less issue. 9" in 22-250AI or Speedmire will handle 75 'Max/ELD M's. 9" in 223 SALAMI,is strictly 75gr Hornie HPBT Country,especially in Winter. Hint.
I LOVE 75's,but the 88 is fhuqking KING. Hint............... Preaching to the choir here… The three 223AI’s built in the last 18 months (2 Faux Ti’s and a rebarrel on my Montana) are all twisted 1:7. I’m only 2 moose and a good bear deep so far, and a buddy smashed a good muley at distance with 88’s. Zero complaints on terminal performance and bone breaking abilities. Almost wondering if I neeeeed a 22 Creed though…. Kodiakhntr what barrel did you use to rebarrel your Montana? Did they match the original contour, and if so, how close was the match? Thanks. Frank
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,787
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,787 |
Frank,
Kodiak might be using Canuk barrels but I'm curious to hear his reply as well.
I've used 2 of liljas kimber contour dupes and they were spot on. One from x caliber and one from rock creek were close but a little heavier.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
I’ve Montucky dupes with PN,Rock,Bart’,Brux and Lilja. No biggy to simply replicate OEM contour and lose some shank. Hint.
Just sayin’………..
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,787
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,787 |
That's what I've done lately too Stick. Greg usually has a barrel that will work. Plus Shaen just loves to recontour them for me.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
Frank,
Kodiak might be using Canuk barrels but I'm curious to hear his reply as well.
I've used 2 of liljas kimber contour dupes and they were spot on. One from x caliber and one from rock creek were close but a little heavier. Dude is correct. K. S. Arms out of Edmonton. Frank, as near as I can tell putting it side by side with the one that was pulled off it is absolutely identical. I didn’t put a caliper on it to look that close, but length/contour is bang on. ‘Stick, I *almost* forgot why that little Montana was my favoritest rifle ever, but as soon as it came back from the ‘smith it was real evident once again that it’s The One.
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
I’ll try to shoot for a coupla days,before I make a cast,so I don’t get sidetracked. Hint.
Need to stretch out the newest Montuckies and am yarding yet another 8” 223 S/S Teeker home. Hint……….
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
Tikka….. never thought I’d see the day….(grin)
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
I only have (5) in 8” 223. They should be 7”,but when sipping from CTR mags,they make sound Loaners. Fixin’ to be a herd for The Spring Fling and I took the month of April off. Hint.
There will be a bunch more 223’s pointed at Mooseses,after that dust settles. Hint.
Good times. Hint……………..(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
There will be a bunch more 223’s pointed at Mooseses,after that dust settles. Hint.
Good times. Hint……………..(grin) GOPHER GUNS?!?!? For MOOSES?!?!? I hear good things……(grin)
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387 |
I’ve Montucky dupes with PN,Rock,Bart’,Brux and Lilja. No biggy to simply replicate OEM contour and lose some shank. Hint.
Just sayin’……….. An inch or so off the shank?
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,899
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,899 |
Good timing on this thread for me.
I have been playing with a Lilja barreled .223 (7 twist) in a 700 and an AR15 with a 7 twist as well. I get to stretch their legs out to 900yds at the end of March so I will be doing a lot of shooting until then. It has been fun working on paper with the 75grELDM, and a couple of Berger's offerings...a 75gr VLD and a 85.5gr Hybrid. It sounds like I need to grab a box of 88s too. I have only worked with CFE223 powder so far but I have Varget, H322, H335, I4895, A2230, A2460 and LeverRevolution currently on the shelf.
Any suggestions on which powder(s) to try next?
Last edited by himmelrr; 02/08/24.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,545 Likes: 6 |
Gopher Guns for everything,mainly because folks tend to shoot best with same and placement matters more than a "smidge". Hint.(grin)
I get asked fhuqking near daily about "Bear Pistols" and I'm a proponent of hits,not misses,thus my 22LR affinity for same. I've stomped/lived everywhere the Scary Schit lurks and have yet to see a Bear lead with something other than it's head. Heads are big to boot and there ain't much to it. Proficiency can't be purchased and there's a connection to wares that are FUN to shoot,seeing the most trigger time. It is hardly a "fluke",to do better than very well with said wares. Hint.
As to Shankology,I'm happy to skin 'em back and inch don't aspook me none. Hint.
As 223,223AI,270,22 PPC AFI,243 Grendel,6 ARC,22 BR and 6 BR go,my powder preference is:
1) Lever' 2) Lever' 3) Lever'
And roughly in that fhuqking order,in dozens of spouts. Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 42
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 42 |
AAC 77gr OTM has been working for me. Getting slightly better performance than IMI 77gr for 60% of the cost.
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