Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Solids for .458 Lott

PM sent and I have to say, I'm astounded by your lack of professional courtesy etc.

shakari, if their stories line up with yours, you can bet your life that I will appologise. But please stop your bartering of Rhino products, a product that I have absulote faith in. Same goes for GSC, I will use the product on buff, but I am reluctant to use it on elephant, esp bulls. That is personal opinion, shaped by MY experience, so if you disagree, so be it. Just do not take on a manufacturer's solid bullet from zero experience with their solid. (Their solids and solfts are 2 fastly differing bullets.)

How about putting up a photo of that unexpanded Rhino found by the skinner?

Within the boundaries of professional courtesy, I say what I mean and I mean what I say and I certainly don't tell lies.

I like GS Custom bullets and I like GS Custom as a company and I like Gerard as a man.... and I respect his expertise.......... and I say so.

The opposite goes not only for the Rhino product and also a few others........ if I've had problems with a product and don't like that product, I'm entitled to say so....... whether you like it or not. You'll notice I didn't say I don't like the Rhino solid, I said I don't like the Rhino product..... and I explained why. As is my right.

I can't publish a pic of any of the bullets, because I don't have them. I find most clients like to keep any recovered bullets from their animals. (I'm sure it's the same for you with your clients) These clients were no different. Obviously the one that entered the ass of the Buffalo and exited between the nostrils couldn't be recovered, but I believe the client has at least one of the other two and possibly/probably both. Unfortunately, I don't.

shakiri, you said you did not metion the solid, only the Rhino product. this now after the poster asked what the other posters think of the Rhino SOLID. Then you post this:

After I asked you what your problem with Rhino is, you relate a story of their softs. You call that professional courtisy?

Going back to GSC and Gerhard, I have a lot of respect for him and his products, and have stated it as such, even in this post. I have taken his agent on in the past on what I believe to be untruths. Funny enough, my point of view on that specific issue has now been published by the Magnum magazine, confirming what I have said then. Coincedence?

I really don't want to get into a pissing contest here....... but...... I don't see what's wrong with my comment. I explained why I don't like them. I'm entitled to do that.

Regsrding your second paragraph, I appreciate that English probably isn't your first language, but perhaps you should consult a dictionary and/or a thesaurus to look up the meaning of the words professional courtesy. Please don't think I'm having a dig at you there..... I'm not, but I sincerely believe you think that expresssion has a different meaning to it's true meaning.

As for your comment about Magnum Magazine. I fail to see what difference that makes. Presumably they've printed either an article or a letter written by you that expresses your opinion? - That doesn't make your opinion any more relevent to anything, it's just your opinion in a magazine. - Nothing more and nothing less....... and it doesn't affect the fact that I have every right to my own opinion whether it agrees with yours or not.

Karl Stumpfe, do you post as Warrior on AR?

jwp, no I post as Karl S
Shakari, it is an article by one of their own staff confirming what I have said on that specific instance. Lets not dwell on it. We are all entitled to our own opinions. They will likely differ. Please just stick to what the poster asked- What you think of a SOLID Rhino?

Karl,


in which issue? - If it's current, I'll be happy to reply to it.

Regarding the Rhino solid - I wouldn't use ANY Rhino bullet after my experience with their softs and their lack of helpful (note the word helpful) support whilst I was having that problem. Frankly, I've used a lot of solids of many different makes and seen a whole lot more used by clients and IMO, the very best of the bunch by far is the GS Custom. I've used it on all of the big 'n' uglies and they've never let me down.

As I said to you in a PM, just imagine what might have happened if I'd managed to close the bolt on an oversized bullet and fired the rifle - or if someone had loaded those bullets and not checked them and then bought them on safari. - His hunt might have been over before it had begun. Sure it's easy to say, no-one would load ammo for a safari and not checked it...... but how often have you had guys pitch up with unchecked, brand new and/or faulty rifles etc. Whether we like it or not, the truth is that theae things happen from time time.

I'm an absolute perfectionist when it comes to reloading and hunting and I simply refuse to acept second best.

Karl,
It was in fact someone else who spoke of visualising (not seeing) a cloud of rifling following the bullet out the bore. That will teach me to check quotes before attributing them in future. I wrongly gave you credit for it and I should not have.

The distortion of the 500gr GSC FN in your photo is of no concern as it is in the top half of the nose and not in the shaft. The nose of the bullet is leaning slightly and would not have affected linear penetration. Did it?

What you need to do is to take one of these "slightly too soft" GSC FNs and shoot the heaviest bones you know of in a downed ele. While you are at it, shoot those bones with a bronze/brass solid as well. What would it be? The top of the femur I guess. The strong point of a copper solid is that, if it meets extreme resistance, it may deform some but it will hang together and finish the job. Brass solids have been known to fail and, when they fail, they fail catastrophically. I would recommend that you use the 450gr FN and not the 500gr FN. However, if the 500 is what you have, use it for a test, bearing in mind that it is not ideal.

As a matter of interest, if the bullets in your photo are readily available, a picture of the base surfaces of 1, 3, 4 and 5 would be interesting to see.

If your 450 Rigby is built on a WM barrel, it may well be a 1:14" and that can only be good. The 450gr FN is still better to use as the additional speed you can get from it, will be worth more than the extra 50gr of the 500gr bullet.

When you say: "Funny enough, my point of view on that specific issue has now been published by the Magnum magazine, confirming what I have said then. Coincedence?" I take it that you are referring to the meat damage question and your opinion that GSC HV bullets is a "sales gimmick". Let me clarify that once again. I have stated repeatedly that HV bullets cause less meat damage than jacketed lead bullets. Not "no meat damage" but less meat damage. By this I mean that, if you have shot 50 animals with HVs and 50 with cup and core bullets, all else equal, you will have more meat in the freezer from the HV shot carcasses.

I have taken clean shots with cup and core bullets. Less damage than what I have experienced with some HV shots. I have also seen incredible destruction caused with cup and core bullets - far worse than what I have ever experienced with any HVs. That is the unpredictability of terminal ballistics. One fact remains and that is that HV bullets bring a greater measure of reliable and predictable performance to the table that is good to have in a hunting bullet.

Your implication of the time was that the pages on our site that deal with meat damage and terminal reliability are less than honest. Then, as now, I say that the statements on those pages are from users of the product and not from us. The comments we get are edited for grammar and spelling, but not for content. Afrikaans and other language contributions are translated into English. At that time I stated that anyone who has sent us a contribution and feels that our editing has changed the content in letter or spirit, is welcome to tell us, so that we can correct the statement or remove it. If a contribution is or becomes suspect, we do not use it or remove it automatically. After your allegation, I asked customers whose contributions are published, as we made contact with them on technical matters or when they re-ordered if their comments are good. We received no requests to change or remove anything, so I must conclude that everyone is happy with what we published.

As for the Magnum examples of meat damage and impact velocity, we are talking of a sample of two, one of which is debatable as to what exactly happened. The collective experience of the hunters showcased on our Gallery and They Say pages number several thousand animals and simply carries vastly more weight as a valid opinion. Speaking of opinion, it is each to his own and it is good when one can back up an opinion with some fact or a substantial body of research or record spanning an acceptable length of time.

The starter of this thread asked about solids available as factory ammo so discussion of GSC, Rhino, or any other make available as components only, is out of line anyway. I have imposed enough, I am out of line and I apologise for that. I am out of here.