And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
Why, God?
"The first part of this question is based on a false premise. People who express those words are essentially suggesting (or saying outright) that God must meet their own criteria of goodness. But who are they to set standards for God? When did they become the moral center of the universe?"
Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.
So, you're the moral center of the universe?
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
[/quote] Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.[/quote]
RH like it or not. Our framework for good and bad, right and wrong has been for centuries the 10 commandments, so widely accepted that they became the basis of our Judeo-Christian legal system here in America. You also have Jesus' reply when someone asked Him what is the greatest commandment, His answer "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the greatest and first commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
It's just like I tell my grandkids "it's simple but it's hard" If we could just love God and love our neighbor there would be no evil in this world other than satan and his minions and they will be taken care of in short order when the time comes.
It's hard for us and even impossible to follow these commands perfectly because of our sinful nature. God says " The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it" Jeremiah 1:9 But we were not created that way, only after Adam and Eve were beguiled by the devil did sin enter the human race. Because our hearts are wicked and God granted us free will this is the reason people do bad (very bad) things to other people and that's exactly why God had to make a way for us to be renewed (Born Again) reconciled, cleansed, our minds renewed. This is done by acknowledging our sin, repentance, and accepting Jesus' substitutionary payment for our sins on the cross.
Let me add that God does not take lightly evil things done to people especially kids, Matt 18, "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."
Last edited by Dons99; 03/14/24.
"Drop that or by the splendor of God I will blow your heart out." Kit Carson
"Make sure you are doing what God wants you to do then do it with all your strength." George Washington
And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
What region of the country are you from? Just curious.
West
Absolutely no disrespect intended, but there seems to be a trend. Regional differences in social norms and traditions are very real.
One of my buddies who is a believer is a veterinarian and one of his best friends is a leading hand surgeon in the Sacramento area. He told my friend that he has studied the human hand for over 40 years and there is no way that it is a result of evolution. He said just the human hand is absolute proof of intelligent design. I think pretty much anybody that would look at their own hand right now and make a fist or just move their fingers would agree…
What’s he say about the panda’s thumb?
Probably assign it to the same intelligent design/designer
Then I would say your friend of a friend is kind of an idiot.
Yeah, chief hand surgeon at a major hospital in the capital of California, a real moron lol
You can always find somebody with some credentials that have some crazy ideas.
Ok so lets forget the doc. Look at your hand as it moves or your feet, knee or pretty much any part of your body. Now open a book and check out how a digestive system or reproductive system works, lungs that take in oxygen and deliver it to the blood so it can travel to the muscles, brain and every part of the body. Vision, hearing, taste, smell and I could go on and on. So I'll ask you is there a design? Seriously, IS THERE A DESIGN? Answer that one question and we can talk.
The nerve that controls your larynx goes all the way down to your heart and then back up to your neck. Does the same in a Giraffe. Inexplicable if it was "intelligently" designed. But evolution explains it as modification from previous creatures where that made sense.
Humans teeth are typically too big for their jaws. This is why so many people have crooked teeth, get braces and have their wisdom teeth pulled out. Inexplicable if it was "intelligently" designed. But it is explained by evolution that when the genes that controlled our jaw size and our teeth size are different and they didn't quite evolve perfectly together when our jaw size diminished.
Humans have poor sinus drainage. That is why we always get so stuffed up when we have a cold. Animals with snouts don't have this problem, their sinus cavities drain just fine. Bad design for Humans. But this is explained by evolution that when we (or our ancestors) lost our snouts the sinuses repositioned themselves, but didn't really reconfigure themselves, in a way where they would drain well. If this was designed, it certainly wasn't from an "intelligent" designer.
Ok well I guess you and I will agree to disagree.
"Drop that or by the splendor of God I will blow your heart out." Kit Carson
"Make sure you are doing what God wants you to do then do it with all your strength." George Washington
We have a brain, and hopefully some deductive reasoning power, and hopefully were raised in some kind of structured environment that gave us some basic instinct of right/wrong, good/bad. For the sake of the discussion, let's call that instinct human morality. If we see a completely innocent child suffering, innocent people starved, enslaved, beaten, murdered...can we not hold your deity to our standard of human morality? Can we not question anything? Why are we equipped with a brain? Do we owe total obedience to this deity, never questioning right/wrong, good, bad?
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
Why, God?
"The first part of this question is based on a false premise. People who express those words are essentially suggesting (or saying outright) that God must meet their own criteria of goodness. But who are they to set standards for God? When did they become the moral center of the universe?"
Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.
So, you're the moral center of the universe?
I'm happy to at least give my input as to what I believe is moral and what I believe isn't. But you can look to the Bible and then contemplate whether the moral principle that you are looking at in the Bible needs to be "tweaked". For example, "love thy neighbor", that of course needs to we tweaked, it certainly doesn't mean that you therefore flood the country with all the garbage from other countries. Another example is "thou shall not kill". That needs to be tweaked a little because serious criminals and habitual criminals should get the death penalty.
And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
Why, God?
"The first part of this question is based on a false premise. People who express those words are essentially suggesting (or saying outright) that God must meet their own criteria of goodness. But who are they to set standards for God? When did they become the moral center of the universe?"
Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.
So, you're the moral center of the universe?
I'm happy to at least give my input as to what I believe is moral and what I believe isn't. But you can look to the Bible and then contemplate whether the moral principle that you are looking at in the Bible needs to be "tweaked". For example, "love thy neighbor", that of course needs to we tweaked, it certainly doesn't mean that you therefore flood the country with all the garbage from other countries. Another example is "thou shall not kill". That needs to be tweaked a little because serious criminals and habitual criminals should get the death penalty.
That's not what I asked....
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
Why, God?
"The first part of this question is based on a false premise. People who express those words are essentially suggesting (or saying outright) that God must meet their own criteria of goodness. But who are they to set standards for God? When did they become the moral center of the universe?"
Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.
So, you're the moral center of the universe?
I'm happy to at least give my input as to what I believe is moral and what I believe isn't. But you can look to the Bible and then contemplate whether the moral principle that you are looking at in the Bible needs to be "tweaked". For example, "love thy neighbor", that of course needs to we tweaked, it certainly doesn't mean that you therefore flood the country with all the garbage from other countries. Another example is "thou shall not kill". That needs to be tweaked a little because serious criminals and habitual criminals should get the death penalty.
That's not what I asked....
You were given a good answer to your question. It may not be either of the two answers you wanted (yes or no), but to answer yes or no would just be falling into the trap you set in your attempt to score a "victory".
Why don't people live happy with what they believe and STFU?
I swear, this thread is like a Vegan/Lesbian conversion session.
There's probably hundreds of threads on the fire that you are knowledgeable and passionate about and yet you come here to this thread that you obviously don't care about and then voice your opinion against this thread...SMH
I didn't voice my opinion against this thread, only against stupid people that apparently lack reading comprehension.
And yet the first words from the mouth of any parent here in a quiet moment if their child was very sick would begin with Please God.
And when the child dies, "Why, God?" then after they tell all their friends who are trying to decide whether to believe or not, the friends think "Why God?
Why, God?
"The first part of this question is based on a false premise. People who express those words are essentially suggesting (or saying outright) that God must meet their own criteria of goodness. But who are they to set standards for God? When did they become the moral center of the universe?"
Surely, we are not that hopeless that we can't have a framework of what constitutes goodness and what constitutes badness or what's right and what's wrong. We are not that incapable and submissive.
So, you're the moral center of the universe?
I'm happy to at least give my input as to what I believe is moral and what I believe isn't. But you can look to the Bible and then contemplate whether the moral principle that you are looking at in the Bible needs to be "tweaked". For example, "love thy neighbor", that of course needs to we tweaked, it certainly doesn't mean that you therefore flood the country with all the garbage from other countries. Another example is "thou shall not kill". That needs to be tweaked a little because serious criminals and habitual criminals should get the death penalty.
That's not what I asked....
You were given a good answer to your question. It may not be either of the two answers you wanted (yes or no), but to answer yes or no would just be falling into the trap you set in your attempt to score a "victory".
I'm not the one here trying to "score a victory", ESPECIALLY one over God.......
You have zero humility. You know better than God Himself the moral absolutes of mankind, as if you're better than God. You know better than God Himself what the 10 Commandments should be, as if you're smarter than God.
SMH.
Ya know, I'm not perfect, not even close. I'll never be. All I'll ever be is a rotten unworthy sinner in need of forgiveness....and I'm walking a very thin line here between judging and not judging another.
But, I've done a pretty good job throughout my life keeping as much distance as i possibly can between myself and people like you.
The only thing I can do, and I'm not sure I'm even willing to try, is hope someday you open your eyes to the Truth.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
Why don't people live happy with what they believe and STFU?
I swear, this thread is like a Vegan/Lesbian conversion session.
There's probably hundreds of threads on the fire that you are knowledgeable and passionate about and yet you come here to this thread that you obviously don't care about and then voice your opinion against this thread...SMH
I didn't voice my opinion against this thread, only against stupid people that apparently lack reading comprehension.
Are you able to demonstrate that you're not a stupid person? What do you believe or not believe?
That's not what I asked....[/quote] You were given a good answer to your question. It may not be either of the two answers you wanted (yes or no), but to answer yes or no would just be falling into the trap you set in your attempt to score a "victory".[/quote]
I'm not the one here trying to "score a victory", ESPECIALLY one over God.......
You have zero humility. You know better than God Himself the moral absolutes of mankind, as if you're better than God. You know better than God Himself what the 10 Commandments should be, as if you're smarter than God.
SMH.
Ya know, I'm not perfect, not even close. I'll never be. All I'll ever be is a rotten unworthy sinner in need of forgiveness....and I'm walking a very thin line here between judging and not judging another.
But, I've done a pretty good job throughout my life keeping as much distance as i possibly can between myself and people like you.
The only thing I can do, and I'm not sure I'm even willing to try, is hope someday you open your eyes to the Truth.[/quote] See that's why you didn't get the answer you wanted...I knew that you were wanting to have a meltdown such as is evidenced by what you just said. I agree that you're "a rotten unworthy sinner" because you are failing to love thy neighbor (Riflehunter).
One of my buddies who is a believer is a veterinarian and one of his best friends is a leading hand surgeon in the Sacramento area. He told my friend that he has studied the human hand for over 40 years and there is no way that it is a result of evolution. He said just the human hand is absolute proof of intelligent design. I think pretty much anybody that would look at their own hand right now and make a fist or just move their fingers would agree…
What’s he say about the panda’s thumb?
Probably assign it to the same intelligent design/designer
Then I would say your friend of a friend is kind of an idiot.
Yeah, chief hand surgeon at a major hospital in the capital of California, a real moron lol
You can always find somebody with some credentials that have some crazy ideas.
Ok so lets forget the doc. Look at your hand as it moves or your feet, knee or pretty much any part of your body. Now open a book and check out how a digestive system or reproductive system works, lungs that take in oxygen and deliver it to the blood so it can travel to the muscles, brain and every part of the body. Vision, hearing, taste, smell and I could go on and on. So I'll ask you is there a design? Seriously, IS THERE A DESIGN? Answer that one question and we can talk.
Don, I don't think you can look at a hand and foot and say there was definitely a design. You might look at it and say that it is so complex and draw an inference that it must have been designed. But we must also determine whether there is evidence with archaeology of a gradual refining of the complexity of the hand and foot. If there is, we must determine if there is a theory for that gradual refining. We then try to disprove that theory of the gradual refining, if we can.
If you look at the hands, paws, feet, legs and arms of mammals, even the wings of bats and fins of whales. There is a very similar bone structure there. Its almost as if there was an original version and then that was modified as each species developed. And if one looks at the fossil record, it is exactly what looks like happened.
It seems like a really strange design for an omnipotent God use the same basic bone structure for the hand of man as he did for the pectoral fins of a whale and the wing of a bat. Or for the leg of a horse to have bone so similar to the bones of a human foot. The all serve different functions or function in different ways, yet the bones are basically the same.
One of my buddies who is a believer is a veterinarian and one of his best friends is a leading hand surgeon in the Sacramento area. He told my friend that he has studied the human hand for over 40 years and there is no way that it is a result of evolution. He said just the human hand is absolute proof of intelligent design. I think pretty much anybody that would look at their own hand right now and make a fist or just move their fingers would agree…
What’s he say about the panda’s thumb?
Probably assign it to the same intelligent design/designer
Then I would say your friend of a friend is kind of an idiot.
Yeah, chief hand surgeon at a major hospital in the capital of California, a real moron lol
You can always find somebody with some credentials that have some crazy ideas.
Ok so lets forget the doc. Look at your hand as it moves or your feet, knee or pretty much any part of your body. Now open a book and check out how a digestive system or reproductive system works, lungs that take in oxygen and deliver it to the blood so it can travel to the muscles, brain and every part of the body. Vision, hearing, taste, smell and I could go on and on. So I'll ask you is there a design? Seriously, IS THERE A DESIGN? Answer that one question and we can talk.
No. There is no design:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
All through my posts I mentioned the non-intervention of God in priest child-molestation cases, so once again, you seem to be on a different wavelength to me. The multitude of priest child-molestation is well-known, appearing on the media, court cases etc. For you to argue that maybe God did intervene in these cases but I don't know about it is absurd. One can recognize the position of a higher authority but still be critical about some of the things that higher authority does...that is not an unreasonable stance. I do think when I reach the gates of Heaven, God will call out my name, open the gate and say "Riflehunter, well done my brave crusader!"
You still have a comprehension problem. I did not argue that "maybe God did intervene". Rather, I asked how YOU know what God did or did not do. That is focus on your behavior/assumptions/expectations/judgments of God. You state that God's behavior is disgusting and rant about God not acting according to your expectations or demands. If your relationship with God causes you to feel righteous and confident in doing that, particularly on the basis of your personal judgment without documentation, you are operating in an orbit unknown to me. I have no comment on that relationship.
One can deduce that God did not intervene in the publicized priest-child-molestation cases because if he did, the child would not have been molested. To argue that I don't have documentation about God not intervening in such cases is ridiculous. Were such a matter be brought before a court, the court would easily make a finding that the outcome supports the view that God did not intervene and also there is no evidence of God intervening. The fact that there is no documentation either way would make no difference to the finding. Now that is the last reply to any of your posts because I don't like the discourteous way you respond and I'm not wasting my time on such a person.
Has that sexual abuse by priests been exposed, addressed and condemned - at least to a major extent? Why? What role has God played in those actions? If you think God played no role, please explain why not and how not. The act of ignoring and trying to discount the free will and concomitant sinning of mankind does not permit one to live in a limited mind bubble.
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