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The probability of the universe existing, the probability of it existing and being so vast, whether by the hand of God or not by the hand of God, is so low that it is close to zero. It is just unbelievable that existence exists - no matter how it came about. Yet we know it does exist. The probability argument and the vastness argument therefore does not swing things in favor of "no god", in fact it swings things in favor of "god". If on the balance of probabilities that god exists, then which god? No one has come up with a better explanation of what constitutes god that what we have in the West. You can't determine the probability. There may well be infinite universes (multiverses) if which case life is then inevitable. God is just a pacifier placeholder for the superstitious and solves nothing - you can"t solve a mystery with another mystery.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. CCCCCC is just like a believer moth with Karen tendencies - it's his flame and everyone else should stay away from it. LOL!!!
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Yes i believe in God and so as most humans since time immemorial Really? Which one? The Christian god has only been around for 2000 years or so and is a basically a new god on the block. Many stories in the bible have been pinched and modified from earlier religion belief versions (eg flood, resurrection). Humans have been around for 300,000 years or so - it's a rather bold statement to suggest that we've always believed in a god/s. There are articles that suggest that humans didn't start making up gods until about 40,000 years ago, and consolidation into early religions at around 11,000 years ago.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Debating God is a fools' errand to begin with. But an entertaining madness with pseudo Christians dissecting Biblical minutia instead, to bolster their lofty opinions of their own righteousness. The most obvious evidence of God is manifest indifference. We are a pitiful blip in the history of a 4.6 billion year old fleck of dust, floating in the forgotten vastness of limitless space. We can know peace and call it God, or surrender in silent humility. Or is that repetition?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. scoony, I welcome your comments as important. Many answered the title question directly and simply, as did I. The tension grows when others deride or attack some of those responses. It is my observation that most of the believers do not take offense because others don't share their beliefs, but rather due to the nature of some posts - sometimes quite a few negative posts. The example you cited above was my observation, ending with a question regarding the reason for that. To understand how the name-calling develops in some of these threads one has to go back through the posts and find the roots - where it starts and by whom (usually predictable). Then, due to some of our human tendencies, others fight fire with fire. I don't see it as an example of a moral standard, but do think it is generally ineffective and useless, and not a good example to set. If that amounts to a mea culpa in the eyes of some, so be it. But, that question about reason is cogent, and it remains. Lets check the tape and see where it started on this thread: I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit!  My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Then the call out for hierocracy. I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Get the Christians to follow the morals first....then see who follows. A Christian calls out Catholics: I was raised catholic also so I understand what a bad first experience about religion you had. Catholic is a joke, it has nothing to do with Jesus or God. Find a good church that preaches the Bible, your life literally depends on it. Too not believe in God is foolish. Here's my first post: And here's the "Christian" response to it: You've stated you don't many times. Move along with the rest of the fools. You have a very selective memory. Where was the name-calling? It's right there for you to read with your own eyes. Move along with the rest of the fools.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm surprised by the amount of non believers here.
And the gun owners who hate President Trump so much! WOW! Go sell your guns and go be liberal elsewhere!!
For the record I believe in God and his son!!!!!
It�s a magazine not a clip......
Advice is seldom welcome, and those who need it the most, like it the least.�
- Lord Chesterfield. 1750
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Campfire Ranger
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If you choose to participate in the New Covenant that Jesus established (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to have a personal relationship with your Creator (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to follow Jesus’ teachings (and He’s invited you to do so), then your life will be better, and you will be better at life.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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The best aspect of being a believer to me is Praying. I find praying to be the most relaxing and rewarding form of meditation. I believe in the power of prayer and enjoy praying for members here when a prayer is requested. Nothing wrong with sending Positive and Good Vibes out into the Universe. 
Last edited by KillerBee; 03/19/24.
KB
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God didn't change. The covenants changed. God's activity in the Old Testament doesn't fit with the “love your enemies” from Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount. You don’t see a lotta enemy love goin’ on when you read the Old Testament. And it’s not because there’s two different God’s. The covenant that Jesus made is a brand-new covenant. They are all the same, right? The only thing that changed is people were having a hard time keeping up with the requirements of the Old Testament. It was changed so that people could feel good about being bad without all the hard work.
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I'm surprised by the amount of non believers here.
And the gun owners who hate President Trump so much! WOW! Go sell your guns and go be liberal elsewhere!!
For the record I believe in God and his son!!!!! This may be a bit selfish but I'm glad the non-believers are sorting themselves out. I don't like people to begin with, and I can't stand crowds. Not at all sorry they'll go their seperate way.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Campfire Tracker
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If you choose to participate in the New Covenant that Jesus established (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to have a personal relationship with your Creator (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to follow Jesus’ teachings (and He’s invited you to do so), then your life will be better, and you will be better at life. Tell that to the parents who just lost a child to cancer or an accident and you are liable to get your azz beat.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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Campfire Regular
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If you choose to participate in the New Covenant that Jesus established (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to have a personal relationship with your Creator (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to follow Jesus’ teachings (and He’s invited you to do so), then your life will be better, and you will be better at life. Tell that to the parents who just lost a child to cancer or an accident and you are liable to get your azz beat. Not unless those parents have been taught by idiots to believe that God is responsible for every good or bad thing that happens.
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If you choose to participate in the New Covenant that Jesus established (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to have a personal relationship with your Creator (and He’s invited you to do so), and if you choose to follow Jesus’ teachings (and He’s invited you to do so), then your life will be better, and you will be better at life. Tell that to the parents who just lost a child to cancer or an accident and you are liable to get your azz beat. By my experiences, that is simply not an accurate statement. Quite the opposite I would think. But I am a believer. So, I am taught to not lean on my own understanding. Although not my child, I have stood in the gap for my sister for close to 15 years now. I can assure you, her faith as grown from her loss. When all of what a person defines themselves as is stripped away, and all you have left is faith in God, then faith is what we surrender to. I understand you may have a different experience.
Last edited by Simplepeddler; 03/19/24.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. scoony, I welcome your comments as important. Many answered the title question directly and simply, as did I. The tension grows when others deride or attack some of those responses. It is my observation that most of the believers do not take offense because others don't share their beliefs, but rather due to the nature of some posts - sometimes quite a few negative posts. The example you cited above was my observation, ending with a question regarding the reason for that. To understand how the name-calling develops in some of these threads one has to go back through the posts and find the roots - where it starts and by whom (usually predictable). Then, due to some of our human tendencies, others fight fire with fire. I don't see it as an example of a moral standard, but do think it is generally ineffective and useless, and not a good example to set. If that amounts to a mea culpa in the eyes of some, so be it. But, that question about reason is cogent, and it remains. Lets check the tape and see where it started on this thread: I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Then the call out for hierocracy. I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Get the Christians to follow the morals first....then see who follows. A Christian calls out Catholics: I was raised catholic also so I understand what a bad first experience about religion you had. Catholic is a joke, it has nothing to do with Jesus or God. Find a good church that preaches the Bible, your life literally depends on it. Too not believe in God is foolish. Here's my first post: And here's the "Christian" response to it: You've stated you don't many times. Move along with the rest of the fools. You have a very selective memory. Where was the name-calling? It's right there for you to read with your own eyes. Move along with the rest of the fools. Not the case. You are misrepresenting and faking again.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,016 Likes: 2 |
Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. scoony, I welcome your comments as important. Many answered the title question directly and simply, as did I. The tension grows when others deride or attack some of those responses. It is my observation that most of the believers do not take offense because others don't share their beliefs, but rather due to the nature of some posts - sometimes quite a few negative posts. The example you cited above was my observation, ending with a question regarding the reason for that. To understand how the name-calling develops in some of these threads one has to go back through the posts and find the roots - where it starts and by whom (usually predictable). Then, due to some of our human tendencies, others fight fire with fire. I don't see it as an example of a moral standard, but do think it is generally ineffective and useless, and not a good example to set. If that amounts to a mea culpa in the eyes of some, so be it. But, that question about reason is cogent, and it remains. Lets check the tape and see where it started on this thread: I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Then the call out for hierocracy. I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Get the Christians to follow the morals first....then see who follows. A Christian calls out Catholics: I was raised catholic also so I understand what a bad first experience about religion you had. Catholic is a joke, it has nothing to do with Jesus or God. Find a good church that preaches the Bible, your life literally depends on it. Too not believe in God is foolish. Here's my first post: And here's the "Christian" response to it: You've stated you don't many times. Move along with the rest of the fools. You have a very selective memory. Where was the name-calling? It's right there for you to read with your own eyes. Move along with the rest of the fools. Not the case. You are misrepresenting and faking again. That's one of the most dishonest things Christians do. "I didn't say you're a fool, God did" or "I didn't threaten to burn you forever, God did.", or oven better, "Your choosing to be burned forever".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. scoony, I welcome your comments as important. Many answered the title question directly and simply, as did I. The tension grows when others deride or attack some of those responses. It is my observation that most of the believers do not take offense because others don't share their beliefs, but rather due to the nature of some posts - sometimes quite a few negative posts. The example you cited above was my observation, ending with a question regarding the reason for that. To understand how the name-calling develops in some of these threads one has to go back through the posts and find the roots - where it starts and by whom (usually predictable). Then, due to some of our human tendencies, others fight fire with fire. I don't see it as an example of a moral standard, but do think it is generally ineffective and useless, and not a good example to set. If that amounts to a mea culpa in the eyes of some, so be it. But, that question about reason is cogent, and it remains. Lets check the tape and see where it started on this thread: I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Then the call out for hierocracy. I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Get the Christians to follow the morals first....then see who follows. A Christian calls out Catholics: I was raised catholic also so I understand what a bad first experience about religion you had. Catholic is a joke, it has nothing to do with Jesus or God. Find a good church that preaches the Bible, your life literally depends on it. Too not believe in God is foolish. Here's my first post: And here's the "Christian" response to it: You've stated you don't many times. Move along with the rest of the fools. You have a very selective memory. Where was the name-calling? It's right there for you to read with your own eyes. Move along with the rest of the fools. Not the case. You are misrepresenting and faking again. That's one of the most dishonest things Christians do. "I didn't say you're a fool, God did" or "I didn't threaten to burn you forever, God did.", or oven better, "Your choosing to be burned forever". I didn't say that you are a fool and haven't heard God say it either - but you are proving the fact here. A fellow can't read what isn't there. So, maybe you could move along with your fool crowd.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,568 Likes: 4 |
Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. CCCCCC is just like a believer moth with Karen tendencies - it's his flame and everyone else should stay away from it. LOL!!! Ooops - you made up a message. It might be funny if it weren't so grossly wrong. Please know that you and your ilk are sincerely welcomed to the flame, the sticky strips, the bait - whatever your yearning. You misstate the point and avoid the key question. You always arrive. The key question is why - the reason.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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[quote=CCCC]Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Dang! Lots or name calling here. Fine example of some moral standards to follow? The title of this thread asks a question, one that all can answer. The believers are just as drawn to this as the non-believers, probably more so. Seems that you all take offense to the fact that others don’t share your beliefs in a super natural being. scoony, I welcome your comments as important. Many answered the title question directly and simply, as did I. The tension grows when others deride or attack some of those responses. It is my observation that most of the believers do not take offense because others don't share their beliefs, but rather due to the nature of some posts - sometimes quite a few negative posts. The example you cited above was my observation, ending with a question regarding the reason for that. To understand how the name-calling develops in some of these threads one has to go back through the posts and find the roots - where it starts and by whom (usually predictable). Then, due to some of our human tendencies, others fight fire with fire. I don't see it as an example of a moral standard, but do think it is generally ineffective and useless, and not a good example to set. If that amounts to a mea culpa in the eyes of some, so be it. But, that question about reason is cogent, and it remains. Lets check the tape and see where it started on this thread: I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Then the call out for hierocracy. I don't. I was raised Catholic because of my Mom, at around age 14 we could make our own decision. Both of my sisters did the same thing. My Father a retired Earth scientist has always been an atheist. My first day in catechism, which I believe was in fourth grade. The teacher started telling the story of Noah's Ark. Even at that age I thought this is a bunch of bullshit! My Father never ever influenced me and I didn't know about his beliefs until 16-17 years old. My folks are both 88 and are Highschool sweethearts and have been married 69 years. My Father has always supported her on everything. I doesn't bother me that People practice religion. It's just extremely upsetting of the devious side of it. Alway's wondered how many members feel the same. Yes, I absolutely believe in God! And what you are saying is your opinion and nothing more. The world would be be much better place if we all followed Christian morals Get the Christians to follow the morals first....then see who follows. A Christian calls out Catholics: I was raised catholic also so I understand what a bad first experience about religion you had. Catholic is a joke, it has nothing to do with Jesus or God. Find a good church that preaches the Bible, your life literally depends on it. Too not believe in God is foolish. Here's my first post: And here's the "Christian" response to it: You've stated you don't many times. Move along with the rest of the fools. You have a very selective memory. Where was the name-calling? It's right there for you to read with your own eyes. Move along with the rest of the fools. Not the case. You are misrepresenting and faking again. That's one of the most dishonest things Christians do. "I didn't say you're a fool, God did" or "I didn't threaten to burn you forever, God did.", or oven better, "Your choosing to be burned forever". I didn't say that you are a fool and haven't heard God say it either - but you are proving the fact here. A fellow can't read what isn't there. So, maybe you could move along with your fool crowd.[/quote] Now you're just being dishonest.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 451 Likes: 1
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 451 Likes: 1 |
The probability of the universe existing, the probability of it existing and being so vast, whether by the hand of God or not by the hand of God, is so low that it is close to zero. It is just unbelievable that existence exists - no matter how it came about. Yet we know it does exist. The probability argument and the vastness argument therefore does not swing things in favor of "no god", in fact it swings things in favor of "god". If on the balance of probabilities that god exists, then which god? No one has come up with a better explanation of what constitutes god that what we have in the West. You can't determine the probability. There may well be infinite universes (multiverses) if which case life is then inevitable. God is just a pacifier placeholder for the superstitious and solves nothing - you can"t solve a mystery with another mystery. The probability of the universe existing is 100%.
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