Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Montana Deer/Elk Hunters - Good News?

Been busy ice fishing of recent and just got the new Montana Elk/Deer/Antelope Hunting regulations pamphlet yesterday.
The bit of good news (I think) is that the Deer and Elk Rifle Hunting seasons will run until December 1st this year.
The Deer and Elk Hunting seasons have traditionally always ended on the Sunday AFTER Thanksgiving and this year that Sunday is December 1st which is 7 days later than in some years.
The rotation of the ending of the season usually changes by one day a year - some years it ends on November 24th then the next year it would be November 25th then the next year the 26th etc.
This later season ending will improve chances of tracking snow and high country freeze up which are among the reasons this late closure is good news for Deer/Elk Hunters in my experience.
Let alone the fact that the Deer will have more time to get rutted up!
Good luck to all who plan to Hunt Montana this year.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

How was fishing?

Angus1895: The Rainbow Trout fishing has been poor all winter, through the ice - it is THE first year in the 26 years I have been fishing at this reservoir that I would rate this fishery as poor.
It is usually excellent fishing all winter with lots of fish (3 trout limit) - and some big ones at 3 - 4 pounds.
But this last 10 days the Fresh Water Ling (Burbot) fishing has really turned on. I love the white fillets of these unusual looking fish.
Thank goodness they caught those two murderous prison escapees over your way!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

You sure its good news, I know one thing our M.D. could use a break.

Good news or not depends on attitude and where you hunt. Season being a little later just means more chance for inclement weather. I don't mind hunting on warm days/cool nights; doing so at -20° and windy really sucks! I won't do it anymore.

Hunting steep country in deep snow isn't so much fun either, though I've seen mule deer dragging their bellies after elk have to lower elevations.

Sherm61: That is nothing new.
Our Mule Deer have been suffering terribly in SW Montana for decades now (way to many predators of all stripes - that ARE overpopulated!).
Back in the 1970's and early 1980's I would see 125 - 150 Mule Deer a day while Hunting one of my favorite areas - in this same area I have traveled through there many dozens of times in the last 20 years and have yet to see a SINGLE Mule Deer! As far as I know they are completely wiped out in this once thriving Mule Deer ecosystem?
The Elk meanwhile have learned to survive around large private ranches hereabouts. A late season will do NOTHING to increase the big game herds but it will increase a Hunters chance at a mature Bull or Buck - again weather assists and rut assists.

DHN: For those of us that are NOT just fair weather Hunters I think this year provides a better "chance" at harvesting a mature Bull or Buck due to the late closure.
Stay inside if you wish - I gotta get after'em.
Good luck to ya anyways.

Holdinto the wind
VarmintGuy

Thanks, Varmintguy. "Fair weather" hunting, as mentioned, has to do with attitude, something greatly affected by injury, health, and age. Enjoy it while you can, it can change far too quickly.

Best of luck to you, and good hunting.

If there were some deer to hunt.....

VG,
Muley populations have declined significantly across their entire home range of western North America beginning in the early 80’s. Despite a number of studies by the western states, no clear smoking gun has been identified. Almost certainly a perfect storm of several or more factors. Predators among them.

From the early 60’s to the late 70’s there were 1.1 million deer estimated to winter over in Colorado ( full disclosure, that was recognized as an over population). But today…….there are less than 425,000.

Makes me sad.

I've hunted M.D for 40+ years MT, Wyoming, Colo, Nevada and Wash on horses and foot.
Just about every Mountain range in MT and praire, we keep doing the same thing but expect a different result.

There have been several studies in various states since the general rise in elk populations indicating more elk tend to repress mule deer populations.

I started hunting big game in the 1960s, during the peak of the post-WWII mule deer boom--which was due to several factors, including habitat recovering from droughts during the 1930s. But there were other factors, including many landowners refusing to let anybody shoot does, despite vastly imbalanced populations.

In my second season I hunted a ranch south of Big Timber, and saw over 200 does in one day--and two bucks, both forkhorns. (In 1969 I also worked as a ranch-hand in southeastern Montana, and the father-son owners told me they illegally "culled" hundreds of mule deer during 50s to save their hay crops for their cattle. Yet the son was then an outfitter and didn't allow does to be killed by hunters, the reason very few bucks survived to be 4x4s--and if they did were immediately killed. (He was a typical rancher, who didn't see any sense in killing "mommies".)

The other factor was that mule deer populations tend to follow about an 11-year population cycle, linked in some studies to sun-spot activity, which influences winter weather. When we moved here in 1990, mule deer were almost as abundant as in the 60s, but that was partly due to recent "modern" smaller clear-cuts. One area we frequently hunted was a series of 100-200 acres cuts along about a mile of closed logging road. It was common to see 10-15 mule deer on every cut on cold mornings. Since then all those cuts have grown up into small timber....

Mule deer also reproduce far quicker than elk, due to usually having two fawns a year instead of one calf. All of which is why mule deer were far more abundant EVERYWHERE back then than elk, and why elk on public and were typically found in thicker timber on lower Forest Service land, though there were some at higher elevations. Resident elk tags were always available OTC, so there was plenty of hunting pressure--the reason most pubic elk hid in thicker timber.

Today elk tend be found more often at lower elevations, especially on valley ranches that don't allow or limit hunting. I realize this seems like like "boomer" observations (was born at the peak of the baby boom), but it's also been substantiated by a number of studies--including where most Montana elk are taken these days. Which is why this fall I hunted elk not in my local area, where Eileen and I did well during the 1990s, but in central Montana--where elk populations are far above "desired" levels by the game department, and there were very few elk 50 years ago.

It was in an area I guided in during the late 1980s, when it was great mule deer country. There were some elk back then, but far more mule deer. Saw several hundred elk--and very few mule deer.

I think the quality of winter range, or lack thereof is also a big factor in mule deer numbers these days.

Deer that winter in cropland may do OK, but a damn lot of the traditional winter range in Idaho but also Montana and Wyoming is now either 5 acre ranchettes or downy brome/medusahead.

Overharvest?

That’s the general consensus, especially on the eastern part of the state. The general season goes well into the rut.

There’s a conglomerate of issues…too many predators IMO, too much hunting pressure, winter range being developed and/or covered in noxious weeds, an occasional hard winter and whatever else. I think the high number of elk and whitetails also has an impact.

There are still lots of big mulie bucks but they don’t come as ‘easy’ as they used to. In the western part of the state there’s still a lot of good deer but the timber is a lot thicker so a guy just doesn’t see them as much, IMO. That, and many of the units there close before the rut kicks in heavy.

T Inman: Thanks for your insights.
I spend a LOT of time in the outdoors down here in my little corner of the world and indeed "too many predators" is a significant factor in the decline of our Mule Deer herds - in my opinion/experience.
This past Friday I traveled to a distant (75 miles each way) gunshop leaving early in the morning as I had to be back home for the 2:00 P.M. start of a gunshow here. I traveled through formerly high density Mule Deer country and saw exactly 11 (eleven!) Mule Deer on that 150 mile round trip!
And those 11 Mule deer were IN my front yard as I drove out!
Did see maybe 100 Whitetails on that sojourn that were concentrated in and around farms/ranches.
I absolutely agree the Mule Deer NEED a break/protection/lower harvest.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

We can blame predators all we want but there not the only issue, do I think predators have a part in our deer decline sure they do but selling 86,000 deer tags like last year sure as Hell doesn't help.
That 86,000 was to NR, 221,000 to residents.
Montana in 2023 sold more tags for Deer and Elk than they have animals alive, its not rocket science.

If people would quit shooting young immature bucks just to say they killed something, FWP could sell unlimited tags cuz hunters would be self regulated.

A lot of people want FWP to take away opportunity because most hunters can't stay off the trigger. That's like blaming the fork cuz you're fat.

Unfortunately thats a pipe dream I wish it was true though. 3 years ago my nephew and I were Elk hunting the Big horns in Wyoming and there's was 2 guys from a state back east skinning a spike x 2 M.D buck in the hotel parking lot. I see this all the time and here comments like I spent x amount of dollars im shooting something. I just ate a Region G M.D in wyoming this fall that took me 12 years to draw but I made my mind up it was 180" or nothing.
Being able to have 5, 6, 7 deer tags in your pocket is ridiculously though, if you have a cow calf operation to you kill off all you cows to grow your herd?

Some people don’t care one bit about ‘trophy’ deer: they just want to kill something on family trips with their kids along, or get meat in the freezer, or whatever. Game Departments need to manage for all of these interests.

If you all want point or width restrictions statewide then take it up with MTFWP, I guess. Personally, I like the current system where some are sacrifice units where anything with antlers is fair game, some are ‘trophy’ only units, some areas are draw and some areas are open.

Now dealing with the predators and habitat situation is another issue.

Everything you said, plus:

When the Taylor grazing act was passed in the mid 30’s, and the number and the amount of time grazing of livestock was significantly reduced, and at about that time hunting had begun to be regulated, is likely a huge factor in the mule deer population explosion that began in the 40’s.

Today, that “new growth” of browse plants that began in the 40’s, in response to significantly less livestock grazing, have become decadent and does not provide the forage it once did.

Another example, with various species of sage being important winter browse, Pinion/Juniper has encroached on sage significantly. Most likely because of wildfire suppression.

Most of the old time biologists I know believe elk are a big factor though.

Don’t tell the bunny huggers, but it’s clear Colorado believes bears are a factor, and over the last 6-8 years have been practically THROWING bear tags at hunters.