Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer- If You Were Looking at Bird Dogs?

My current flushing dog is an Australian Shepard/Pittbull mix. He has outperformed the labs I started with years ago in the field and at least as well as the field bred springers I've owned in all but water work and I would consider that a push with the springers. The labs might have benefitted from the better training I can now provide but even then they would match the mix at best. He was kind of a "rescue" as the mother, the Aussie side, was owned by someone who used them to work stock and compete. She was giving them away. He is now 12 and showing his age.

Otherwise, I am a pointing dog person. I normally have 3-4 on hand but am down to one in the house and two placed with relatives. I've owned or kept Pointers, English Setters, GWPs, Large Meunsterlanders, WPGs, shorthairs, Viszlas, and probably another breed or two I don't recall off hand. They have all been at least decent in the house even though they also spent/spend a fair bit of time in outside kennels. Obedience is the key to a dog that is good in the house as well as outside. My Pointer was a field trial washout that had not been inside a house for nearly 2 years. He was housebroken in a week and soon claimed the corner Lazy Boy as his whenever inside. He could turn it off when inside but going out the door flipped his switch. Being able to hunt birds literally just outside the door probably didn't help. Had to keep him on a chain or under constant supervision if just letting him out as he would be gone if he scented birds or a coyote.

For me I was always more of a waterfowl, pheasant kind of bird hunter than a grouse hunter. A yellow lab was the best breed that I had for disposition with a trouble free coat. The springer and cocker were lots higher strung and with that long softer hair, caught every thistle, burdock or picker that they went near. They both shed enough to raise the height of the carpet.

^lab^

Mule Deer, here is the best list I can create of Montana's available upland bird species:

1. Sage grouse
2. Sharp-tailed grouse
3. Spruce grouse
4. Dusky grouse
5. Spruce grouse
6. Ruffed grouse
7. Gray partridge
8. Merriam turkey
9. Ring-neck pheasant
10. Chukar partridge
11. Valley quail

You are correct... almost a dozen species!

As far as the OP's original question, I've had labs, GSPs and English setters for upland hunting. With two middle aged dogs now, I probably only have two more puppies left in my upland career, and one of them (maybe both) will be a GSP.

We could probably also include mourning dove (even though they're classified as "migratory") and collared doves--which have become more common in many areas than mourning doves. They started showing up in Townsend a few years ago, and mostly stuck around town until the past couple years, when I've seen and shot them in more areas outside of town.

Years back I had an Airedale that could really find game (quail, pheasant, grouse, rabbits).
He never learned to point, so you had to kinda play his game. Was really good at retrieving also.
Even fetched a few ducks.
I miss having a dog, but getting to state of life where they don't fit in full time very well.

Remembering that line--"Old dogs care about you even when you make mistakes"

I have had GSP for close to 50 years and most have been great dogs but a couple have been not so good but were great house dogs in their own right. I have friends with English Setters and after a day of grouse hunting they spend hours combing the burrs, sticks and assorted junk out of there coats. Add in areas that have ticks (the U.P. ) and a long haired dog is a pain.
For an all around hunting dog/family companion IMHO you just can't beat a GSP. I'll never be without one even if I get to old and rickety to hunt.

My sister and niece just got new dogs, apparently Uncle Tom had his good friend keep his very nice lab for the weekend at her horse barn where she happened to have an Australian Shepherd. Well, the Aussie came in heat and the lab obliged and soon puppies arrived. Sister and niece took a female and male, I was with them in UT over the weekend, mostly look like labs with the slightest aussie coloration, really great dogs but not known if they will hunt. I'd gladly take the female home any day!

I have two Dachshunds that we are very found of but if I were looking for another dog, a small-bodied female would be my #1 choice!

+1 on the poodle stuff. Adding poodle blood to otherwise good breeds is creating a bunch of nondescript idiot dogs. Keep a pointer a pointer.

Apparently quite a few posters are unaware that poodles were originally bred as hunting dogs, even before the widespread use of firearms. Of course, those genetics have been watered-down in the past century or so, but my father's brother Larry bred full-sized poodles from the late 1950s to 1970s, and hunted with them. They worked very well....

I don't think anyone is adding poodle to pointer on any regular basis today in effort at achieving a bird dog. The pudelpointer is as much a specific breed and came about in much the same way as the draht, the gsp, or the weimer. And as far as I know, most of this activity took place in the 19th century.
What's that? Like maybe (I'm guessing) 60-80 dog generations ago?

He didn't breed dogs, but I too, had an uncle by marriage who hunted with standard poodles. I remember one as a pretty danged good dog

You are correct about the pudelpointer history. IIRC, the pudelpointer was one of the breeds used to develop the drahthaar. NAVHDA results show PPs scoring pretty darn well on average. I know I really like mine. Thinking I may get another...

My grandfather had a German Shepard farm dog who was a great pheasant dog, back when we had quite a few more pheasants around. Didn't retrieve them though. We have had Weimaraners and vizslas and I really like those dogs. My current vizsla is 11 and might be the last dog I have...who knows

The owners are to blame, not the breed! Way too many guys buy a hunting dog and keep it in a kennel and never work with dog until they take it out for opening day. Let the screaming and yelling begin! I have had GSP for 50 years, but have never breed a litter because it is hard to find good owners. Big hat, no cattle! I've seen way too many dogs locked up in a kennel for 15 years and hunted 25 days.

Don't care what breed you buy, you risk getting a bad dog. I've had a bunch of shorthairs, number of pointer's and a couple. E. Setter's and today I have Red Setters. Easiest to work with were the Shorthairs and Red Setter's. Accident getting into Red Setters. Went to Washington to judge a shooting dog stake and saw my first Reds. Beautiful dogs and one gave the best performance I've ever seen at a trial. I bought a pup out f her next litter and never looked back. Always though my last dog would be a shorthair but looks like a Red Setter now! Hair not as soft as my E Setter's were and they don't load up with burrs as bad. Hair all over is much shorter than E Setter's and much easier to maintain. Much smarter and much more biddable than AKC Irish Setter's. I've also trained a few Brittany's and you might look there. Looking at AKC dog's it's best to avoid those with Ch in front of their name, show champions. While some can hunt more aren't worth feeding, bunt been bred out of them. One exception might be the Brittanys. The Brittany club of America used to require a show at field trials to keep the instincts strong. Unfortunately I don't think the same thing happened at shows. One of my favorite dog's I ever trained was in fact a Brittany! Other breeds are certainly worth looking at, just beware of show breeding only! What you get out of any well bred field dog will depend on your training more than anything. I would if I were you avoid Pointer's completely. Some can be taught to hunt closer but the majority run huge! That said I saw a young female years ago that would not run big, they do exist! You might do yourself a favor and go to some field trials and watch some breeds that might intrest you. Word of caution, watch the gundog stakes, all age can be renegades! Dood place to go watch would be shoot to retrieve trials, NSTRA. NSTRA has dogs much more inclined to be hunter's than AKC or Amer Fld, that is if you want a hunting dog. AKC and Amer Fld both sides glorify the All Age dog and they suck to hunt over.

The way I understand it about Poodles is they were water dog's used on ships. I don't know if that true or not but they certainly have a coat for it. Also that standard poodle hair cut is the result of trimming to protect joints in cold water. Myself I would also avoid Poodle Pointer's. I have read no where that poodles were ever bred to be hunter's and I have only ever seen one of them. To many well bred dogs out there that have been being bred for a long time to be bird dogs to go with something like a Poodle Pointer. Might say the same about the pointing lab. Labs make great retriever's and a lot of them make good flushing dogs but, they were bred to be retriever's! Buy a breed bred to do what you want it to do!

I am surprised as someone as well versed in dogs that you'd spell and say that about pudelpointers.

Again, for the folks in the back:
https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/pudelpointer-the-complete-versatile-hunting-dog-history/

Wirehaired Pointing Griffon

Poodles came from Germany as hunting dogs, over four hundred years ago. They have been used as such every since! The off or down breeds, miniature and toy, are the result of people wanting, smart clds.