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Originally Posted by Diggerman
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Diggerman
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by antlers
When you intentionally misquote what was said (like you clearly did) in order to support your position, then your position is a weak position.
"I don't know therefore GOD"
"It's beyond my comprehension therefore GOD."
"It's so wonderous therefore GOD."
"Science is too hard for me to understand therefore GOD."

How every you want to paraphrase it they are all bad arguments.
All science pivots on the big bang, Which is far harder to believe than a divine creator. You do not need religion to understand God.

Science doesn't ask you to believe anything. Observation and acquired information leads to explanations, a theory or hypothesis for what has been observed, cosmic background radiation, galaxies moving apart (unless gravitationally locked), etc.
science asks you to believe the big bang theory, a baseless, impossible to prove and a way out there idea. Im not po-po'ing all science, just where they start. Also evolution is only made possible with huge lapses and there is zero proof that man and frogs were once relatives.


You’ve got some really big gaps in your knowledge.


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"It is no secrete what God can do".


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.
When you see the word ‘believe’ in the New Testament, it
comes from a Greek word that means a whole lot more than just believing something in your mind. It means ‘to put your trust and confidence in.’ In Jesus. For salvation, to be reconciled to your Creator.

Then, since your sin is now paid for, go and live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you.


To 'believe' is to be convinced that what you believe is true and factual. Aside from social conditioning where the religion you grew up with, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, what some folks consider to be evidence or find convincing is the stickler.

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Originally Posted by CCCC
Why don't you have a discussion about the fact that sure evidence for one individual may not serve as any evidence for another, and the forever subjectivity of that matter. It might illuminate the futility of these puerile yakking matches.

Evidence supports a claim that all can agree concurs with reality - it's not subjective. Belief in a god has no evidence and is divorced from reality, and is entirely subjective - thousands of Christian denominations are evidence of this fact and reality. Here endeth this lesson.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.
When you see the word ‘believe’ in the New Testament, it
comes from a Greek word that means a whole lot more than just believing something in your mind. It means ‘to put your trust and confidence in.’ In Jesus. For salvation, to be reconciled to your Creator.

Then, since your sin is now paid for, go and live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you.


To 'believe' is to be convinced that what you believe is true and factual. Aside from social conditioning where the religion you grew up with, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, what some folks consider to be evidence or find convincing is the stickler.
How many of you have "seen" co2? You believe it is real, you believe that plants need it, You believe that it causes "global warming". So here we have a man telling us that something invisible is real, Is this guy a scientist or a Pastor?

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Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.

There is an important and reason for this. It’s pretty obvious once you think about it. What makes a God is belief. Without belief God dies. God seems very real to those that believe, but without that belief there is no God. A figment of our imagination that disappears the moment the belief goes away.

Wow a real dummy post on Good Friday. Lotsa grist for the mill here.


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Ther is no doubt that there is-was a creator. There is no way to explain thoughts, consciences, feelings etc. Who, what the creator is, dont know, call it God if you want. Religion is what we use to reconcile with our thoughts, conscience, etc.

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"What A friend we have In Jesus."


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.
When you see the word ‘believe’ in the New Testament, it
comes from a Greek word that means a whole lot more than just believing something in your mind. It means ‘to put your trust and confidence in.’ In Jesus. For salvation, to be reconciled to your Creator.

Then, since your sin is now paid for, go and live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you.


To 'believe' is to be convinced that what you believe is true and factual. Aside from social conditioning where the religion you grew up with, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, what some folks consider to be evidence or find convincing is the stickler.
Your first sentence there is merely an interpretation of the term "belief". That interpretation does not apply universally. Individual people believe, and their definitions of belief vary.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Why don't you have a discussion about the fact that sure evidence for one individual may not serve as any evidence for another, and the forever subjectivity of that matter. It might illuminate the futility of these puerile yakking matches.

Evidence supports a claim that all can agree concurs with reality - it's not subjective. Belief in a god has no evidence and is divorced from reality, and is entirely subjective - thousands of Christian denominations are evidence of this fact and reality. Here endeth this lesson.
Your first statement there is quite faulty. Your use of "all" is a gross assumption based on zero evidence of that factor. What is evidence to you may not be evidence to another, etc.. Please cite a claim about God on which ALL agree.

Further, there need not be any such "claim" in order for one to experience evidence. Claims seem to be the action of those who wish to prove some point of view or secure a corner on some claimed reality. Objectivity is not created by such claims, or by your sentence.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
"On a hill far away, stood an old, rugged Cross."
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
It's a nice sentiment, but it's not evidence.
The evidence shows: that a tiny band of followers of a rabbi who was crucified survived BOTH the Jewish Temple AND the mighty Roman Empire, BOTH of whom were intent on stamping them out. Not only did this new movement survive, but it thrived. It spread like an airborne disease, in an environment that was tremendously hostile to it. Something extraordinary happened to drive all of that.

The evidence shows: that the once cowardly followers of Jesus stood up to the VERY people in the Jewish Temple that had Him crucified. And despite being beaten to within an inch of their lives many times, and being tortured in other ways and eventually killed, they ALL went to their graves still professing the extraordinary event that they’d seen with their own eyes which motivated them.

The evidence shows: that from a few followers in ancient Judea when Christianity began, by the year 100 AD it had grown to over 10,000 Christians. And by the year 200 AD Christianity had grown to over 200,000 followers of Jesus. And then to almost 2 million by 250 AD, well before Constantine legalized Christianity in 313 AD. Even Bart Ehrman concedes that something extraordinary happened in the first century to drive all of this growth, especially against such overwhelming odds.


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Sad as it is, "Many are called, but few are chosen."


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The Greek word for ‘believe’ in the New Testament manuscripts is pisteuo.

pisteuo (Greek - πιστεύω) - to place confidence in, conviction and trust in, acknowledgment of a fact or event.


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Originally Posted by Diggerman
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.
When you see the word ‘believe’ in the New Testament, it
comes from a Greek word that means a whole lot more than just believing something in your mind. It means ‘to put your trust and confidence in.’ In Jesus. For salvation, to be reconciled to your Creator.

Then, since your sin is now paid for, go and live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you.


To 'believe' is to be convinced that what you believe is true and factual. Aside from social conditioning where the religion you grew up with, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, what some folks consider to be evidence or find convincing is the stickler.
How many of you have "seen" co2? You believe it is real, you believe that plants need it, You believe that it causes "global warming". So here we have a man telling us that something invisible is real, Is this guy a scientist or a Pastor?

Um, Yeah I've seen CO2. It's called dry ice in its solid form and easily visible. If you Christers had paid attention in 9th grade science class you wouldn't be saying such silly things.

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Originally Posted by wabigoon
"What A friend we have In Jesus."
I believe that, I just have an issue with folks that tell me what he really was and what he really meant.

Things he never claimed.

That started as soon as he was gone.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
"What A friend we have In Jesus."
Originally Posted by Hastings
I believe that, I just have an issue with folks that tell me what he really was and what he really meant. Things he never claimed.
You ‘also’ have an issue with what Jesus Himself claimed, and when what Jesus Himself claimed doesn’t jive with your already established beliefs and agenda, you simply disregard it.

He clearly claimed, “I and the Father are one” in John’s Gospel, and His claim was not lost on the Jewish people who were there at the time, who responded, “You, a mere man, claim to be God”. In His teachings, Jesus consistently claimed and demonstrated authority over the Law of Moses.
Originally Posted by Hastings
That started as soon as he was gone.
You simply don’t believe the truth, especially if it doesn’t jive with your already established beliefs and agenda. You want the truth to be what you believe.


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Originally Posted by Diggerman
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.
When you see the word ‘believe’ in the New Testament, it
comes from a Greek word that means a whole lot more than just believing something in your mind. It means ‘to put your trust and confidence in.’ In Jesus. For salvation, to be reconciled to your Creator.

Then, since your sin is now paid for, go and live a life that reflects the love and forgiveness of God as you mirror that in your love and forgiveness of the people around you.


To 'believe' is to be convinced that what you believe is true and factual. Aside from social conditioning where the religion you grew up with, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, what some folks consider to be evidence or find convincing is the stickler.
How many of you have "seen" co2? You believe it is real, you believe that plants need it, You believe that it causes "global warming". So here we have a man telling us that something invisible is real, Is this guy a scientist or a Pastor?

You can't see CO either. Let's do an experiment, you go seal up your garage, start your vehicle while you're in it, stay in it with the vehicle running all night and report back to us tomorrow morning.

Since you can't see CO, and by your reasoning, that make it not real, you believe this is perfectly safe.

Let us know how this works out for you.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by bluefish
Originally Posted by RHOD
Christians keep telling me the most important thing about their religion is belief. Faith based belief in their one true God. Not how you live your life. Not how you treat others. Those things can all be forgiven. Belief is the thing God most needs from you.

There is an important and reason for this. It’s pretty obvious once you think about it. What makes a God is belief. Without belief God dies. God seems very real to those that believe, but without that belief there is no God. A figment of our imagination that disappears the moment the belief goes away.

Wow a real dummy post on Good Friday. Lotsa grist for the mill here.

LOL, I posted that on Thursday. I'll let you in on a little secret. When one posts something on one day, it is also still there the next day. Just because you happened across it on a certain day doesn't mean it didn't exist before that day. The evidence (yeah, I know evidence is for non-believers) is that up in the upper right corner of the post is a date. That is the date it was posted. But you go ahead and believe it was posted on Friday, because that is all that matters; what you believe.

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Originally Posted by Diggerman
Ther is no doubt that there is-was a creator. There is no way to explain thoughts, consciences, feelings etc. Who, what the creator is, dont know, call it God if you want. Religion is what we use to reconcile with our thoughts, conscience, etc.

There's plenty of doubt.

"I don't know there for god(s)" is not an explanation, it's a lazy cop out.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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